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The problem, like with so many other things in this world, is social media. Facebook, Internet, it's all the same. Things get out of control in cyberspace, people say things a lot of times out of context. I see it in business everyday, emails and texts instead of picking up the phone or setting a meeting. A Ping pong match of 20 emails that could have all been avoided with one phone call.

 

While I can't comment really on Ron, I have never hid behind the fact that I as well as others want everyone racing together. That's not to say I disagree with multiple organizations because I do not. I have had conversations with Ron on the PHONE and on social media. Maybe he is lying to me, I don't think so, but he wants the same. There is no reason why organizations can't get along as long as they sit down and come up with a solution for working together. Honestly, the majority of racers, myself included, would and do race in both.

 

Dividing Retro is just so silly. Believing the BS that goes on social media creates its own roadblocks which both sides seem to listen to. Airing dirty laundry never helps any situation. Each one exploits each other's rules like some presidential campaign to really what end? Ron is a very prideful person as are the BoD. It does not surprise me with what is said over social media that neither wanna move off their mountains. For the sake of argument, if I were Ron I would have felt I was not welcome to sponsor or race either.

 

But on the other hand, reading social media and the non-constructive comments of the minions I can see why no one would have asked him. Either way, I personally have found in both business and life to get back to the basics. Look both in the eye, get back to shaking hands and using today's technology as a tool and not as something to hide behind. I think the time is passed for who said what and who thinks they are right and who thinks who is wrong. Some people just wanna watch the world burn. It's very easy to see who those people are watching social media.

 

Are we really that different that no common ground can be had? I think not. I see both sides and I understand very clearly how we got to this point. In the end it's about I was right and you are wrong meanwhile racers are left in the middle just really wanting to race together. We have all been friends for a long time and know the slot car landscape.

 

History tends to repeat itself. Retro is a chance to change that.

It will never change. Just like some so-called National Retro Championship will never work or mean anything, win or not.
 
The reason that is, is because everyone doesn't race under one banner. Next, nobody gets titles like "The Best" cause they win a race or a series. You can call it whatever you want, doesn't make a difference. Over time is what earns those titles, and not because you win this or that, it comes from those you race against and race with.
 
Nobody nowadays will ever support a true national series, and I mean one that encompasses both coasts as well as the north, the south, and the midwest. It's too expensive and would literally turn into the last man standing to make every race. Let whomever run whatever they want to satisfy their desire to call whomever the best. In the end, there will always be another race, scheduled somewhere else, using some other format, raced on some different track, using some other rules. There are those that will never be satisfied no matter what.
 
Traveling to Retro races all these years I've seen no one run them all, or win them all, or have enough time and money to even get to them all. Hello, hear what I just said, get to them ALL. It wasn't that long ago that you didn't have any kind of organized racing to argue about. Nobody races for money, nobody is reimbursed for money spent, nobody has a contract, nobody CARES.
 
Just because you win a race, does that make you the best? If Horky loses the next five Worlds won't change the minds of 99% of scale racers out there he is the man. Same goes for Paul G, Beuf, Ron Hershman, Duran Trigillo, Greg Gilbert, Paul Pfeiffer, the late Jon Laster, Howie Ursaner, Sandy Gross, Jan Limpach, the list is endless. In the end you are judged by your peers, win, lose, or draw.
 
I have a side in this bullchit, and that is the side to see us all racing together again. I'll tell ya, you can knock the guys in Cali, but when it comes down to it, they don't keep score, they don't have the choice of tracks the rest of us have, or motors or tires or bodies but they sure have a lot of fun.
 
There is no winner in this deal, and it will all go away soon enough. It grew to this point for one reason, we all got along. Until we find a way back to that, it will stall and die. Manufacturers will lose, raceways will lose, and racers will lose. It wasn't broke, but it's broke now.
 
So to the powers that be, FIX IT.

You guys are makin' too big a deal about this. It's nothing more than less than perfect manufacturing that yields some "out-of-spec" motors. I'll hazard the guess that most have 65 turns and some arms/poles have less and some arms/poles have more. Haven't you guys ever wondered why you'd sometimes get a really good motor? And why sometimes you get a dud? FK arms/poles with fewer/more than 65 winds has been going on as long as they've made the motors. Locals here have torn them down years ago(F7's) with the same results.... most have 65 turns, some fewer, some more. My GOD what do you people expect from a $12 motor originally used for such applications as sideview mirrors in cars? What DOES make a sideview mirror motor "out of spec"? Do you think it matters for such use if it has a few more/less winds? 65 turns may be the optimal spec as described on some order form, but a certain "variance" has to be expected when churning out tens of thousands of units so cheaply made. Do you think the Chinese factory owner cares if a few of the motors have a few more/less winds? Do you think the CEO's of Ford/Chrysler/Toyota/BMW, etc, etc, etc CARE if those motors have a few more/less winds? WE adopted motors perfectly acceptable for THEIR original use for our OWN use... a use not originally envisioned when the motor was designed. My GOD what bunch of prissy prima-donnas!

 

Roll the dice, pay yer $12 and have FUN. Burn it out, go get another one. If you run the ProSlot 4002's, what the @%$# do you care? I'm so tired of you guys that ain't got nuthin' better to do than bitch and moan and fret about somethin' that don't amount to a hill o' beans.

 

Gimme my yellow warning, Greg; I deserve it. BUT AT LEAST I GOT TO TELL THE PANTYWADS OFF!

Route 93 Raceways is going to the sky to advertise!!!

 

A turd is a turd, but it may not be at another venue. The problem with most of you guys is that you think that because of your advanced knowledge and years of experience that you put in what you think is your best motor, that it will be. And if someone is god forbid faster than you, that guy is doin something he shouldn't be. 2 years ago at Retropalooza Port Jeff CanAm, I was practicing and changing motors. I had, believe me, cycled thru some of my best engines from past races, some with multiple wins. I had a engine which was one of the first I'd bought 5 years ago, never ran anywhere. Refurbed it twice over the years, still a turd and never put a race on it. But that day, that track, that power it was a missile. Dominated the race. Fast Ones seal, still had an oilite bearing in the can. Do not confuse the fact that a motor is a turd cause it isn't fast at a specific racetrack. Matching the motor to the conditions is. That's why most of us have lots of engines. These motors are great out of the bag. They are great after getting refurbed. Are they all great at every track, no. So when most of you guys whining on here about guys blue printing motors, how do you explain someone like myself, who has never blueprinted a PD but still wins races? Obviously due to the amount of races I've run I'm sure I've ran against a few blueprinted engines in my time by now. Result has been the same. As with most BS on this blog, the majority of guys should start listening more to what guys who travel alot, race alot, and win alot are saying. But you won't, and the same thing will come up again and again and the same hard headed guys who never seem to walk thru the doors of any racetrack will dictate to the rest of us what a bunch of idiots we all are. Sorry, but if you are gonna talk the talk you better walk the walk. Funny how most who do, never seem to post much on these subjects. Maybe that would be a better topic to waste time on.

 
STAY FAST, MY FRIENDS!!!

There is no doubt that Retro has become a kit-based form of racing. It is what it is. The variations of frames that have come from said kits is just astonishing.

You will never please everyone 100% of the time. Having scratchbuilders talk smack on kit frames is all good. Without that, racing in any form never pushes forward. Pride or ego, whichever you prefer, keep things fresh and keep those engineering minds searching endlessly for the better mousetrap.

In reality we are talking about a guide hole, a piece to hold a front axle, a bracket to hold a rear axle, and something to pin the body too. That's it. However you come up with those things it's all good.

Nobody invented any of this stuff. Guys just arrange them differently. If a kit helps a guy do that quicker and cheaper so be it. Racing is close and that's the key. They all look the same on the line from the top. Retro is such a photocopy hobby anyway. People see a chassis win on Sunday and Monday morning there are 100 copies. And that is from scratch or a kit.

Just realize the big picture, in that there are 100 guys who care enough to spend the time to copy it. That's why it's popular and why you always have plenty of marshals in Retro. LOL.

From my crib in Jersey, like I see it.
 
This blog is a great source of information regarding all forms of scale racing. It has connected us from around the world to share and discuss  almost every aspect of our hobby-sport. We should count ourselves fortunate we have such a forum.
 
That being said, I also find it damn entertaining. All the bickering and squabbling sounds like an Italian holiday dinner LMAO. 
 
There is something to be learned from everything, even the squabbling. So on the interpersonal relationship, human front I have learned that:
 
Some bloggers just don't like other people or organizations, and no matter how right they might be, they will argue against whatever that person/group says. Sound familiar, right?
 
Some just want to be heard, start trouble, are jealous, or are just plain miserable. 
 
NOBODY LIKES THE BOSS
 
An old friend of mine told me this when I became a supervisor.
 
Like it or not, this is Greg's sandbox, like it or not, his rules, his say. Disagree? Don't go away mad, just go away.
 
Retro East, both IRRAs, SCRRA, etc., all have people that run it. In the end if you are unhappy with the rules or you dislike the people running them voice your opinion, and if still unhappy don't go away mad, just go away. Don't try and ruin it for the rest. Nothing is perfect guys...
 
What I've found as a boss is those that support you will tell you one-on-one but usually not in a group. 
The ones that disagree usually do it in a group setting and some will go behind your back. They like the attention and it makes them feel relevant. Understanding their motivation in what and when they say things is as important as the content of their words. 
 
What's it all mean? Well, for starters admit there are people you just never will like or agree with. We all know it, so just stop it. Be relevant or be quiet... there comes a point when enough is enough.
 
There are many of you that are having a hard time in health, finances, or life in general. Lets remember what's really important and have fun racing.
 
Regards,
 
JJ

Motors, motors, motors, PD, RH, etc. I'm just too tired of all the BS.

So here is how we do it at Retro East™. It's called "FUN" and nobody racing in RE™ cares what motor is run in whose car. When JJ and I run side by side in a heat we shake and hug and say, "Man that was great". Same goes for George, Phil, and all the other guys. When Matt, Ed, Ray or whoever breaks a record, we say, "Great run, way to go".

We all have a fun day until next race when we look forward to having fun again. We race what ever we feel is best for the day.

Stop with the motor BS already, those that run what they run it's their choice whether it be cost, performance, reliability, etc. The board-approved motors are for the racers choice to use. Leave the fun to those that want to follow the rules and race.

Enough is enough. I'm not going to defend my post; I spoke my piece.

To our Oscar..
 
To my friend Oscar:

"A Retro racer; all wheels turning
An endless race; the motor spinning 
A friend to share the quiet times
A handshake and  a new friend of mine
Say it loud and lets all cheer
We are all a part of the big everything
The future, present, and the past
Move on Retro Man.
You're free at last."

 

jj

Inquiring minds want to know - what (not who!) exactly were the violations and how were they detected and verified?

   Mike,

      For all the inquiring minds I'll try to keep this brief and just stick to the facts.......

 

    On Sunday, the day after Can Am with F1  on the King track, I was practicing on black lane about 1/2 hour before F1 tech was to open. One of the racers in question was next to me running on purple. On one lap we came onto the straight about even but by the time we hit the deadman he was just GONE. I thought, OMG, and said, "Man, that thing is a missle!  We ran a few more laps and I asked if I could see it. He said yes without hesitation and when I picked it up I was SHOCKED at what I saw.  It was a Hawk Retro that someone had ground DEEP and OBVIOUS slots into all 3 poles in 6 places!...............and I immediately thought......to lighten the entire motor and armature as this was WAY beyond what would be necessary for rebalancing.  Incredulous, I asked the racer, "What the hell is this?!" and he said he didn't know as that was the way it was given to him.  I went to the other racers in question and asked again, What the HELL is this?!" and still didn't get any good answers but told them in no uncertain terms that if anything shows up like this in tech that they were gone!!.  I should have confiscated the motor right then and there but it was practice so I just let it go.  They all did OK in F1 but none made it out of the C Main.

   

    Certainly nothing can be proven at this point but the fact that all 3 racers in question made the A Main in Can Am qualifying does

raise a few flags.  HOWEVER, the butchered motor I saw running so well in Sundays F1 practice was NOT run in Can Am as the pics of their cars clearly show normal armature segments.  None of the racers in question made the podium on Saturday so no one was inspected any further and it wasn't until Sunday that I saw the doctored motor.

 

     I have certainly been in contact with all 3 of the racers and no need now to go into any of this any further but it is clearly time for the SCRRA to tighten things up a bit as far as general motor inspections are concerned and enforce some kind of penalty for anyone found motor tampering. The rules call for permanent exclusion and perhaps this is a bit harsh for first offenders but certainly some changes are in order as we have been a bit lax in the past in dealing with racers suspected of cheating. We are presently discussing adding a separate motor inspector at the tech table and adding a motor protest/teardown rule.  

 

     The racers in question are certainly friends of everyone at BPR and if in fact they were running illegal motors the SCRRA apologizes to everyone and especially any of the racers it had a direct affect on. At this point, even if they didn't run illegal motors they have certainly embarrassed themselves............

To all of my friends,

Very few are involved in this turmoil. Most Retro racers don't care. They just want to have fun and race. The splitting of orgs is like a divorce where the friends of both are put in an awkward position to chose which one they support. NO ONE WINS as everyone is left with discord and bad feelings. He said, she said, it's there fault blah, blah , blah. What we have is hurt feelings acting out on the internet.

I don't know what the answer is but I think everyone should take a break from posting about this BS. Have a drink, smoke a bone, get laid. Whatever calms you down. To quote the Tina Turner song, "I don't care who is right or wrong, I don't want to fight any more."

Regards,

JJ

OK, I admit my original post was a sarcastic jab at all the "over the top" hype being spewed out about this or that race, series, or program. Doesn't matter where or who it is coming from it is a little much sometimes. Comparing ANY slot car race to the Sprint Cup All Star race... come on!! A part of me regrets starting this thread and lowering myself to the level of some who post nothing but sarcasm.

Several things drew me to Retro and have convinced me it is the best type of slot racing I have EVER been a part of. The period of 1:1 racing we focus on was some of the most exciting in racing history. When men where men and all that. Then, of course, it allows many of us to relive our younger years. Who doesn't enjoy that? But, the thing I enjoyed most about Retro was it was friendly competition. Old friends gathering together to enjoy a bit of the past. Competing, of course, but it was much more than just winning. It was more having fun doing something we always loved to do.

Being a competitive sport it was natural for some to be very serious about winning. Nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone wants to be on top. But, the fact that winning seems to be overshadowing having fun is troubling. Everything is a superlative now. The BIGGEST race, the FASTEST track, the MOST entries, the MOST prizes, the GOURMET food (wait...I thought we were slot racing?), THIS power, THAT power, BIGGEST in history, FIRST ever this or that, National Champ this, World Champ that... on and on. If this keeps up we will have a Monday Retro Champion, a Tuesday Retro Champion, etc., etc.

I host a race known as the R4. Soon it will be the seventh anniversary race. Sure, it has had the most entries of any other Retro event. But most importantly we have had great competition and a lot of fun. I firmly believe that the number of entries doesn't matter as long as those two qualities are present. So for those who want to keep score, keep counting heads, I will continue looking for smiling faces and laughter.

What started as a disagreement on a few issues has escalated into a senseless civil war. Many of you would be surprised to know which opinion I agreed with. But that no longer matters. Someone posted in this thread about how it is wrong to attack those trying to promote Retro. I guess someone needs to explain to me how you "promote" something by trying to destroy the existing system, thereby splitting the existing racers, and replacing it with an almost mirror image of the original including down to the same name. THAT was where I disagreed. All that has been accomplished is a rupture in Retro races with all groups getting less than they should be getting in entries.

Wouldn't it make more sense to try to find a way to co-exist, if not cooperate? Continuing the game of "one-upmanship" could lead to something as ridiculous as my original post. And I'm hoping the scheduling of these new races on or just before existing Premier races was just a coincidence and not a deliberate act. Such childishness would only hurt the host raceways and, most importantly, the racers who would be forced to choose or stretch their budgets to include both.

Come to the R4/7 and have a good time with good friends. And maybe make some new ones. You won't be crowned the National Champion in anything, you won't be served a steak dinner, and you won't win one of Jupiter's moons. But, we will do all we can to make sure you have a great time and fair and fun competition.

If we don't stop the creep towards "win at all cost" then I think we will all lose.

I visited the new location are here are some pics:
 
The King track:
 

 
Overall view:
 

 
The Hillclimb:
 

 
The quad-oval:
 

 
Parts counter:
 

 
The place is gorgeous and very well lit, it will be a pleasure to race there!
 
Cheers

In spite of a few different opinions by some, the vast majority of Retro racers just want to race, have fun, and be somewhat competitive. Those that want to build can, and those that can't or don't want to build have a whole lot of options in kits or buying RTR. 

 

Retro racing is enjoying large turn-outs all over the country, Japan, and the UK. 

 

While I do enjoy the bantering, most racers really dont give two sh*ts about this stuff.

 

WE JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!

 

Regards,

 

JJ

Thanks to Mike Isles for organizing and putting on this event yet again. He loves this hobby and has sacrificed both his time, and more importantly his money in trying to bring us the premier slot race in the East.

Thanks to Frank and Mark for taking the reigns of managing SpeedZone and helping make the Brawl run smooth.

Brandon was outstanding in the directors chair and deserves a huge thanks from every racer in attendance. He is a great kid, willing to help with anything.

It was great to have Cap and Brad back to the Brawl along with Tom Hansen, Mike Kravitz, and of course Howie.

John Miller was in the house again, along with the Conn and New York contingent led by the Clinton's and Preston Meyer.

The Brantley family was back and strong.

I got a new friend in Jason Holmes and getting to race with Duran again after all these years was just awesome. I was so happy to get a podium shot with him this weekend. He is the real deal, and did an outstanding job. I told Ryan to watch him and learn, cause that's the racer you wanna be like. Smooth, calculating, and respectful on and off the track.

Thanks to Greg Wells and Jay Guard for making the trip up and experience the Fall Brawl atmosphere.

Thanks to Noose for his never-ending commitment to Retro.

Personally I wanna thank my good friend Ed Sohl. It was Ed that kept me pumped about racing slots when I wanted to step away. He and Sano Dave are my heroes. Great men who do all their talkin with the controller.

Thanks to Greg Van Peenen for his endless work building cars so I can run up front.

To R-Geo, Rick Davis, Steve L, Fast Ones, Pro Slot, and Parma for all their products and help this weekend.

Mostly I need to thank my wife Sharon and my son Ryan. All the late nights and time away dedicated to this hobby especially on big race weekends is their time, too.

Thanks again everyone for coming and supporting SpeedZone.

Retro East regulars are familiar with Nicole "Blondie" Walters from Slot Racing Revival. She has really gotten the slot racing bug, venturing out to OCR and Port Jeff this year after our home track SRR closed. She had mentioned that she would like to learn how to build a car from scratch, so I volunteered to walk her through building a chassis kit. 

Thanks to Joe "Noose" Neumeister, who donated a JK X25R kit (plus a bunch of other parts!) to the cause, last night we sat down and got to work.

The first thing was the basics of soldering. After some pointers and a trial on some scrap, we were ready to get to it.
 
Her first solder joints; bracket, axle, tube, and rear brass section:


 
Moving on through the build:







As you can see, by the time the front axle was going in, she could actually smile!  :-)
 
The finished product:


 
The happy builder:


 
The next step is showing her how to build it into a complete car. We have six weeks until the finale at SpeedZone, where hopefully she will debut her new ride.

Rant alert...  

 

Retro racing is not a beginner class. The cars do not stand up to wall hits and other abuse the way a stamped steel car will. Things will inevitably bend and break and then they'll have to be fixed. Who is going to do that? The sad fact is that many folks have been racing slot cars for years (years!...I tell ya) and they absolutely cannot solder a lick. When the inevitable damage happens to a Retro car, even a fairly robust one, the brass pans are often bent, the frame rail(s) may be bent and the alignment is almost surely out of whack. Cold, blobby solder joints are not going to go very far in fixing some of this stuff and fixing this stuff if not the way to break in new racers.

 

I love Retro and it is 95% of my slot car hobby but it is just not well-suited to inexperienced folks. Start with some of the RTR cars already suggested and work with the newbies on simple stuff like how to align their braid, keeping the gears meshed properly, reinforcing the bodies, soldering in the motors, keeping the guide set right.

 

The sad fact is that way too many commercial raceways will sell a RTR car to a family and and are so damn lazy that they do not tell them one blessed thing about how to drive it or maintain it. So... the ten-year-old goes out and bashes it into a wall a few times. They giggle and think it's fun until they break something and then they don't know what to do. If you start your racers slowly and with simple stuff, then educate them fully, you can build some long term hobbyists. Then... at some point Retro may be a viable option.

 

Oh, BTW... "go fast on the straights and let up for the turns"... is not exactly adequate driving training.

 

Rant off...

Didn't realize their is a big cheating problem in SCRRA OR ELSE why all the worry

John,

With all the motor related stuff that is going on out here presently with the Retro Hawk and all the recent stuff with the magnet zapping, I don't think one single instance of motor tampering or cheating of ANY sort has come to light. The SCRRA has been paying attention to all the cheating possibilities and we have a box with misc. tools to check dimensions, weights, etc. Included are pictures and pieces for comparison, magnifying glasses, etc. A rather large box that has been built up over time, and so far I've only seen ONE motor that was clearly tampered with and it was slow so we just kept an eye on it and let the racer know that we knew!!
        
Pete Zimmerman tried like hell to speed the TSR D3 motors up when they first came out and gave up and said no matter what he did it seemed to make no difference at all or actually slowed the motor down. Pete wasn't trying to cheat but was just curious to see if he could do something.
 
I have taken apart two TSR motors and just simply reassembled them without a modification whatsoever and both times the motors seemed to be noticeably slower than before...
 
Just because I haven't seen anything speed up these FK type motors doesn't mean it can't be done... If I can find the time I am going to set up a Retro Hawk to be able to take it apart freely and sort out an internal system to adjust the brush tension and see what happens. I'll post anything I find...
 
So... out here the SCRRA really haven't seen any cheating. Perhaps some cheating MAY be going on but we haven't seen any EVIDENCE of it. The occasional faster than normal Falcon 7s seem to be totally legal and THAT is at the root of  possible motor change discussions. We've spend a lot of time looking for things and preparing for stuff that just isn't there or just hasn't shown up...

So I guess the old adage, "If you want peace prepare for war", has some merit!!

The IRRA® Board of Directors is pleased to announce that, after a process lasting over sixteen months, the US Patent and Trademark Office has granted US Federal Trademark status to the organization's logo. This is why the claimed trademark notation of ™ recently has been replaced with the registered trademark notation of ® in numerous places here at Slotblog and on the IRRA® website.



Why is this such a big deal? Registered trademark status will allow IRRA® to better protect its "brand" and to ensure that when a race is advertised as using IRRA® rules, those rules will be followed exactly as written for the benefit of all racers and for Retro racing itself.

As far as we have been able to determine, this is the very first time a slot car sanctioning or rulesmaking body has secured a federal trademark registration for its logo.

(posted for the IRRA® Board by Greg Wells)