26 replies to this topic

[IRRA Retro Racing]

Inflation has hit many areas and as a result, the maximum price on motors has been amended accordingly. That is the only change to the motor rules.

 

 2022 Motor Rules.pdf   115.89KB   447 downloads

 

(Posted by Joe Neumeister for the BoD.)

[Tampabay racer]

I'm 100% sure this will ruffle some feathers.

 

Is or has there been any talk about the Road Runner motor being legal for next year's set of rules?

[slotcarone]

What problem would that be fixing or addressing?

[Tampabay racer]

Because it's competition to the CR102 and Swiss is a BoD member.

[Tampabay racer]

Crickets.

[Bags]

Looks like it might be time to go brushless!   
 

Who is going to experiment with it? 
 

There are brushless flexi races and cars now… 

[Eddie Fleming]

If you look at IRRA racing over the last few years, why would they even consider changing motor rules?
 
The motors are the most consistent and the racing is the most competitive I have seen, probably ever. 
 
Brushless motors are probably coming but not yet.

[blue&orange]

Here's why brushless won't come to Retro racing. On my little scale, a CR102 w/gear weighs 41.2 grams; a KV brushless w/gear weighs 6.3 – I can't get the ESC out of my flexi, but it is as light as a feather – maybe 5-6 grams max.  My bare chassis Retro coupe (w/tires but no motor) weighs 84 grams – I build a little heavy; it would have to weigh 105-110 grams for brushless. Since IRRA cars have minimum weights, that would be 30+ grams of weight that would have to be added to cars of every class.

 

Right now a CR102 with tons of torque has to push 60 grams of Can-Am car; a brushless would have to push 90 grams.  True, I haven't built one to test – but my guess is that the science wouldn't work unless minimum weights are dropped, and maybe not even then. Gorski has built a test brushless Retro, but it's a lightweight anglewinder built like a flexi and no front wheels. Oh, and then there would probably have to be a spec motor and ESC, since IRRA does have motor rules.

 

As Eddie stated above, Retro racing seems to be in a sweet spot with the CR102 – really close racing throughout the field, with the gap from top to bottom closer than ever. 

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I’m not sure about the outrunner brushless motors being used but most brushless motors have torque to burn. Like crazy amounts of torque.

[Samiam]

Looks like it might be time to go brushless! 

 

Not until one of the board members sells them. 

[Bucky]

Ignoring the weight issue, is there a viable tamperproof setup close in speed to the CR102 that could even be proposed?

[Bill from NH]

I have little interest in brushless motors. Why do some people think their use will reinvent the wheel?

[Cheater]

My question is why do some racers always seem feel that stable, successful sanctioning bodies must change their rules or approach to suit their personal preferences?

 

If you are a racer who desires a Retro-style series using brushless motors, start something new. Don't demand existing series change to what you want. 

 

If you think brushless is the better way to go, do the hard work and heavy lifting and prove it to us.

[Jay Guard]

IRRA racing is patterned after the slot cars of the mid-sixties. I don't know for sure if there were any actual "FK" motors back then, but for sure there were sealed motors similar to the FKs and they were used in some of the early sixties cars.  

 

Therefore the use of the FK motors today isn't much of a stretch. To the best of my knowledge, there weren't any brushless motors in existence back then so the use of a brushless motor would really be outside of the stated scope of IRRA racing.

 

Given these facts I'd pretty much say case closed on this one.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Well, crap, Jay. Now how to we afford fuel for the IRRA BoD corporate jet?

[Cheater]

C'mon. Mike, a package of bottle rockets is still pretty cheap even today.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

If things really do get better with age… I recently found a stash of about 300 bottle rockets, 500 flash crackers, and 4 quarter sticks that are at least 35 years old. I could do some real damage with that.

[Dave Crevie]

Jay said;

 

IRRA racing is patterned after the slot cars of the mid-sixties. I don't know for sure if there were any actual "FK" motors back then, but for sure there were sealed motors similar to the FKs and they were used in some of the early sixties cars.  

 

Therefore the use of the FK motors today isn't much of a stretch. To the best of my knowledge, there weren't any brushless motors in existence back then so the use of a brushless motor would really be outside of the stated scope of IRRA racing.

 

Given these facts I'd pretty much say case closed on this one.

 

 

Exactly. Brushless motors don't fit the concept of retro racing. There were no brushless motors being used in the 1960's, and should be kept out at all costs. There were cheap Japanese made motors sold at electronics shops like ERI and Radio Shack for use in home projects. Other than having round cans without flat sides, they were in every respect the same as the Falcon motors Jerry Kulich imported 30 years ago. Sloppily wound arms with foil com segments, and phosphor bronze, wiper type brushes. They weren't expected to last. You could buy them 5 or 10 for a dollar. And rated at 3 volts, would go like a fart in a windstorm in a drag car on 12 volts. Good for at least one run (maybe), and being completely closed motors didn't leave a trail of sparks to make the track owner nervous.     

[Tampabay racer]

If you look at IRRA racing over the last few years, why would they even consider changing motor rules?

The motors are the most consistent and the racing is the most competitive I have seen, probably ever. 
 
Brushless motors are probably coming but not yet.

Not sure what results you have seen. The results are about the same as they where from back when we where running puppy dogs. Same people win same people finish last.

Why add another motor to the mix? Why are there so many different manufacturers of the T1-22 or the Lola, why are there so many different manufacturers of front tires, rear tires, guide flags and lead wire? Can you honestly say one front tire is better than another, can you say HP guides are better than MID or Red fox?

[Eddie Fleming]

 IMO nobody changes there mind in internet discussions, so the best you can do is state your opinion and move on. The only alternative is just to say nothing unless you just want to argue. 

[Tampabay racer]

Eddie, in no way any I trying to argue with you. You can say whats on your mind and so can I. We can have a disagreement and not hate each other.

[Eddie Fleming]

No hate Brian.

 

In fact I have a lot of respect for you. 

[Bill from NH]

I met Brian about 20 years ago when he came up to Manchester, NH & raced with us at the Queen City Raceway one night.

[Tampabay racer]

Bill, I believe it was called Need For Speed.

[Bill from NH]

Brian, maybe it wasn't 20 years ago. QCS changed to Need for Speed in 2005. What year did you come up?

 

We used to get Gil Rivera, the CA body painter, once he moved to the Maine coast.