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Strong and weak regions for slot racing


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#1 Michael Jr.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 07:27 AM

As I watch the rise and fall of slot car tracks, and fight to stay off the list of historic and lost raceways myself, it seems some states just don't keep a raceway while in other places they push through Covid and summer slow downs and keep on going. I know... birthday parties, etc., etc., are important. And I also know the easy answer of how hard it is to establish a slot car community where one hasn't existed. So beyond that, is there simply some regional or cultural hills to high to climb for slot car tracks? Mid-west... we aren't very thick with tracks in the Mid-West. California always has tracks. Chicago area keeps tracks and Michigan used to but I've seen a lot of tracks leave the state. NY? Not seeing a lot happening. Teaneck is doing well but it is a very different model which I applaud. Hope that continues to do well. TN, NC, FL usually do pretty good. VA has some racing going on. GA is scratching and clawing its way onto the stable raceway list. SC seems to love a new raceway and then they get bored ad start playing golf. LA? MS? AL? And as big as Texas is, you might think we would have the leaders in racing coming from there but just a few guys that are able to keep their own places afloat.

 

Without getting lost in another doomsday prophecy thread or Better Business Ideas thread... how has slot car racing migrated around the country? Where are the hot spots and is that transitory or are some places just absolute strongholds for slot car racing?

 

I see a lot of amazing tracks up for sale right now. I just lost a chunk of change on one so I guess I'm out of ammo to try to grab what actually is a dream track for me but... nevertheless... lots of good tracks are starting to move around. Where will they find success?


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Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303





#2 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:35 AM

I think density of population is a huge factor.

 

You are only going to have a small fraction of the population with interest in slot-cars as a hobby, so you must have a large number of people  within driving distance.


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#3 Rob Voska

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:52 AM

Do not agree. Even in places like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, it's hard to get people.

#4 Richie

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:10 AM

I honestly think larger city areas are more difficult to have a track. So many options to compete with for family fun. Generally higher rent leads to poorer locations, with generally not as good visibility to help spread the word.


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#5 Phil Smith

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:28 AM

I think you tend to overthink things. I think you just need to look at tracks that have managed to exist for many years and do whatever it is that they do. Copy success.

 

For starters, most seem to be in large cities. So you might want to move.


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#6 Racer36

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:35 AM

Success in operating a slot car track is primarily about 'KYC'… know your client. If you open a shop, you need to research what classes have been popular in the past in that area. If you open the doors and have three wing car classes when Flexi racing has been popular in the past, you are doomed.

 

When I opened my raceway, we started by running 4.5 Flexi NASCAT. Not my favourite class, but had been the primary class around here for years. I had over 20 entries the very first night.

 

This isn’t the answer to all the questions, but it’s a good start.


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#7 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:44 AM

Do not agree.   Even in places like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland it's hard to get people.    

 

And that is why you need a large number of people in the area.

 

That is not the only factor but...


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#8 NateT

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:55 AM

I wonder how many raceways are the primary income for the proprietors?

 

I know in our case, it is just something we do once a week but the model has worked since 1994 and since 1997 with the current King track.

 

We love racing and as the owners subsidize it out of their own pockets. That said, we have a great deal with our land ord and loyal racers. If we had to make money though, the doors would have closed a long time ago.


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Nate Talaskavich
 
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#9 Larry Horner

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 03:19 PM

From my perspective in the SF Bay area, the cost to buy or rent commercial property is just too prohibitive for any business that doesn't have strong profits.

 

The greater bay area actually has a population of around 8 million people, which would seem ample but the cost of commercial real estate is super high. Two tracks have gone out of business since I've lived here and my closest track is now over 90 minutes away.



#10 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 03:45 PM

The problem with 1/24 commercial slotmcars is you need an excess of skill to buy, build, plan ahead, and race them. Most people don't have the skill to be a top racer. If you're showing up and finishing in the back 30% every race, it gets old fast.


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#11 Cheater

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 05:30 PM

I wonder how many raceways are the primary income for the proprietors?
 
I know in our case, it is just something we do once a week but the model has worked since 1994 and since 1997 with the current King track.
 
We love racing and as the owners subsidize it out of own pockets. That said, we have a great deal with our land lord and loyal racers.  f we had to make money though, the doors would have closed a long time ago.

 
My belief is there that not a single commercial raceway in the United States is covering its overhead via the revenue stream generated by its organized racing programs.

Prove me wrong.

Slot car raceways are essentially vanity publishing in the hobby world.

Very sad, but it is almost undeniably true.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 Cheater

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 05:32 PM

I think you tend to overthink things. I think you just need to look at tracks that have managed to exist for many years and do whatever it is that they do. Copy success.
 
For starters, most seem to be in large cities. So you might want to move.


Phil,

The critical element seems to be whether the raceway is in rented or owned space.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#13 Bill Seitz

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 05:39 PM

In most of my nearly 60 years in this hobby, I've had to travel around to find raceways, so I get to see and follow them over time. A major factor is real estate prices and whether the track owner rents or owns. Big cities tend to have commercial property owned by huge commercial real estate corporations that seem to not care if their prices mean large numbers of vacancies. Smaller communities often have real estate owned by local individuals that appreciate having property rented at a discount over standing idle for a higher amount, and this same scenario is sometimes found in larger cities as well. Discounted commercial space near a population center is a significant factor. In conversations with raceway owners, I find this is often a deciding factor as to why they've continued to exist. Another major factor is having additional income besides simply a slot car raceway. Two raceways I'm familiar with in California are hobby stores and have a significant business in R/C models. Several I've known have some level of arcade game business. Some survive by selling on the internet, often with the raceway primarily to meet the requirements necessary to buy from slot car distributors. Others manufacture or distribute slot car product in addition to the raceway. There are also those cases where the raceway owner is a diehard enthusiast and subsidizes the raceway's existence through other business or professional means. These are the primary factors I've found for raceways that have stayed around more than a year or two.

 

I've also seen several situations where, when slot racing was having one of its 'up' periods, a successful raceway would suddenly induce several other raceways to open in the same vicinity. Unless these additional raceways are serving different niches, for example, one caters to big raceway track enthusiasts and the other to hard plastic scale model racing on smallish flat tracks, then very often the multiple raceways in the area siphon off enough of each others' business that none survive. I've seen this happen multiple times. I've also seen situations where private clubs form around garage or basement tracks and similarly siphon off racers that prefer a particular niche or variant that isn't well served by a raceway that needs to appeal to a larger market.

 

Unfortunately, we slot racers are sometimes to blame. I've seen multiple situations where the local racers could not agree on a common rule set or class of car, or if they did, the rules were seriously abused to the point that the group seriously fractured and the raceway couldn't keep a large enough faction of any of them to be successful.

 

And finally, outside forces have profound effects. After all, slot racing is a hobby dependent on people spending their discretionary time and income to participate. In an America with a short attention span demanding frequent re-invention of anything to stay viable and popular and with an abundance of things for us to spend our discretionary time and income doing, keeping a sufficient clientele together over an extended period is a huge challenge. In just this forum, I regularly see people selling their equipment because they've lost a job, been forced to change jobs, had a serious illness, or some other reason that they can no longer continue. And then us old diehards are slowly, one by one, leaving this world forever.

 

It's a tough world for raceways. I sincerely appreciate every raceway owner, wish you the very best for continued success, will support you whenever I can, and sincerely understand when the conditions you face prevent you from continuing. I wish this weren't so, and slot racing was once again so popular there were hundreds of raceways all thriving across the country.


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#14 Phil Smith

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 06:55 PM

The critical element seems to be whether the raceway is in rented or owned space.

 

Greg,

 

But people do make it work in rented spaces.

 

The Chicago tracks supplement with manufacturing and mail order. I get the impression they do very well. And they work hard at it and deserve it. Of course mail order is probably hurting some of the other tracks, but it is what it is.

 

Dallas Slot Cars has a tremendous drag racing program. So they're actually a track that does indeed turn a profit from racing.

 

Jim Honeycutt has made it work for what, 50 years, or longer? I have no idea how he does it. Same for Port Jeff, Buena Park and all the other tracks that have been around for a long time. Somehow they're doing the impossible.


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#15 eshorer

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:40 PM

I wonder how many raceways are the primary income for the proprietors?
 
I know in our case, it is just something we do once a week but the model has worked since 1994 and since 1997 with the current King track.
 
We love racing and as the owners subsidize it out of their own pockets. That said, we have a great deal with our land ord and loyal racers. If we had to make money though, the doors would have closed a long time ago.

 
This reminds me of a coffeehouse I owned in the mid-to-late '90s: A bohemian joint with poetry reading, live music, magazines, fast internet (a partial T1 line). People came and would hang out for hours... on their one cup of coffee. We lost $2,000. a month that was made up for by other things like my "real job" and rental property profits, so we just kept it going because it was FUN. Until it wasn't. 

The four SoCal "raceways" I see currently are informative: Two 1/24 raceways, and two 1/32 shops. One of the 1/24 raceways earns money from regular racers who prepare for scheduled races, and BIG national and international races. The other gets income from a few different regular race series, birthday parties, etc. Both of them get by a lot on their drag racers.  

One of the 1/32 stores is actually a toys and collectibles shop with a huge plastic track, that holds regular races. No parts sold for profit, so it's clearly for the love of having a track and races, while the other toys / collectibles sales pay the bills. The last is the newest, with a HUGE online and decent walk-in sales of cars, parts, and full kits. They hold monthly races and it continues to grow, but still many of the racers shop online for better prices instead of supporting them. Economics, greed, or doing what their mama's taught them? You decide. 

I think we all know there's no magic bullet to slot car raceway success. I don't know how other raceways make it without either a steady, well-attended ongoing series of races, or a good online sales setup. 

I'm fortunate to be in a huge metro area with lots of options. I didn't even mention the eight club tracks. Others would consider living in a large metro area to be a curse. 

Thanks to those who have given it a shot. 

Eddie
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#16 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 11:14 PM

It's all luck.


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#17 Michael Jr.

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 09:37 AM

I think it's hard to develop sustained momentum in an area after the initial excitement of something new.  It reminds me of PT when I was in the Army.  We knew we had that initial energy drawing from the carbs and sugars but then we hit a hard spot till we moved into the fat burn for energy.  Call it a second wind or whatever.  I didn't prepare for that transition and it is currently kicking my butt.  I knew it would happen in my head but just forged ahead in the times of plenty and tried to much to quick.  I've decided to try and get though by digging deep in my own pocket.  But that's neither here nor there.  My point is,  the area I am in has limited Slot Car racing commitment.  I've got a few guys on board through thick and thin but to break even I really need 10 guys racing a couple of nights a week.  I'm at about 25% of what I need.  So this area...which is the focus of this thread, will require something different to create a Slot Car racing environment. Something other than just existing.  I'm not sure what the answer is.  But in areas where there are generational racers, it is more assumed that Slot Car racing is just a part of life. Here...hunting, lake, kids soccer, etc all take the lead and slot car racing is still viewed as "if I have some time and extra money".  It's that mentality that I am trying to get past.

I believe that is where we see some of the regional differences.


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Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303


#18 Rob Voska

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 09:45 AM

Old Parma book said to move location every 3 - 4 years.  I think trading tracks would help also.  


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#19 Michael Jr.

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 09:47 AM

I really want to say you're wrong but you're not. Especially on the track rotation. We ask guys to come in and run the same track with the same guys with the same results for years. Rule changes don't work... just makes folks mad. 
 
But changing tracks will. And that brings us to the 1/32 plastic track discussion. LOL.

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

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Spartanburg, SC 29303


#20 Shruska55

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 10:42 AM

Michael,

 

Distill your business to its component parts. Don't think if it as a slot racing shop. Think of it only from a retail business perspective. Do an analysis of why you are in business. Define your business model. e.g. is an en entertainment space? its it a party space? Is it a product sales space? will you provide services along with sales? What are those services and the  fees attached? In other words, go back to basics. To your analogy, that's what PT is all about. Breaking the solder down to build it back up. Do that with your business and find it's strengths. Analyze its weakness. Strengthen those weakness or cut them from mix. Be brutally honest on the evaluation. Unless you have the side hustle income to fund it, make the decision all about dollars and cents.

 

Once you've defined all the criteria, overlay what you have and determine if you can be successful as a slot shop within the confines of your definition. It's a very binary yes or no choice at that point. You may not be happy with the final findings, but it will give you an answer about whether it can be a self-sustaining opportunity or a vanity project as Cheater noted.

 

That said, Here's a few of my observations and suggestions.

 

I deep dived your website. it is loaded with amazing ideas that I didn't see in execution when I visited Upstate. If those ideas can be marketed, promoted and executed in your local community, I'd venture you would not have to stake all on 10 hard core racers. The youth education program in particular looks perfectly designed to bring in not only younger racers, but families. That's a heck of a target market. That is also one of the best word of mouth advertising groups available.

 

A robust drag program is possible with that well built drag strip. Drag racers aren't only about speed. They are also incredible builders. The cars I've seen at DSC are fantastic examples of scale detail and craftsmanship. That's another target market. One that happens to very lucrative for the raceway if done correctly. I say this a a tried and true flat track racer. If I had a shop, drag would be a prominent feature and promoted like mad.

 

In the end, any business needs a cash cow. Find one that will fund Upstate's monthly outflow. Then promote the heck out other programs with fun classes. Talk to local business about sponsoring races. See if you can get bling donated for prizes. That cost sharing reduces Upstate's capital outlays It also makes the local business community a partner in Upstate's success.

 

There are a ton of ideas for a successful retail operation. It doesn't matter whether it's the old biz school widgets or slot cars. Apply tried and trued methods. If those don't work, then perhaps it isn't possible to work in your area.

 

All the best


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#21 Shruska55

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 10:51 AM

Michael,

 

One last thing: There is a group of oval racers in the Spartanburg area that used to race at Bullet Raceway and Hobbies in Woodruff. I betcha they are looking for a home to race and you do have that nice oval track. Friday night lights, perhaps?

 

Just a thought.


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#22 Bill Seitz

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 08:05 PM

I am somewhat familiar with Greenville/Spartanburg because I used to live just outside Bristol, TN. At first I drove to Knoxville, TN to run on a King and then Morganton, NC to run on a rebuilt American Orange/Monarch. This track later moved to Greenwood, SC and Simpsonville, SC with a different owner, and after that I lost track of what happened to it.  I had to pass through Greeneville on my way south to Greenwood or Simpsonville. Later there was also a raceway at Asheville, NC, Kingsport and Bristol, TN, and at Big Stone Gap, VA. This area was never a hotbed for slot racing from what I can tell from the activity at the previous raceways, although further east in NC there was some following of scale, hardbody NASCAR-type cars on ovals. Hickory, NC had a raceway with one very large oval modeled after North Wilkesboro that operated more like a club and was entirely committed to scale-appearing hardbody NASCAR. More recently, raceways in Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge, and Newport, TN have all failed to draw enough clients from slot cars as entertainment or slot car racing to succeed more than a year or two. The raceways to the east sprinkled around NC today seem to be running a combination of Womps and hardbody NASCAR, and that's what I expect would be popular. I know from my experience in the Bristol area that road racing cars like GTP and F1 were considered "those funny looking cars" and there was little interest in them. I'd take this as a pretty good indicator. I also know there's a strong interest in drag racing. Elizabethton, TN has had a slot drag racing business for years while the raceways with road courses came and went. It seems to me that anywhere in the Southeast, and especially the Carolinas, a raceway has to incorporate oval and drag racing. Probably never hurts to have something that caters to slot cars you can have at home, like 1/32 and HO, but on a track size not easily accommodated there.

 

I am familiar with some of the raceways mentioned above and know they continue to exist through shrewd rent discount negotiation and addition of other income streams. Mr. Honeycutt's raceway has video games and a strong rental program. He's in an older shopping mall and places emphasis on entertainment, not racing. Mr. Watson has his Jet Tire business and sells race-prepped parts to racers from all over the country. And time and again, it doesn't hurt to have an area where slot racing has existed for a long time in one form or another at one raceway or another and has created a interested clientele ready to step up to the drivers' panel when the next raceway opens.

 

The common business model for slot car raceway success as I see it from wide observation is to have a larger income stream than just slot cars or the financial ability to subsidize slot cars. That might be arcade entertainment, a more general hobby/crafts business with slot cars, a wholesale and/or Internet supplier of products and services, or some other kind of business altogether. And in today's commercial real estate market, the ability to negotiate commercial space acquisition at a price that the income stream can support. There are very few raceways that succeed with just some tracks, some over-the-counter slot car merchandise sales, and a racing program at standard commercial real estate prices. That's just the nature of our small hobby.


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#23 Phil Hackett

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 08:31 PM

My belief is there that not a single commercial raceway in the United States is covering its overhead via the revenue stream generated by its organized racing programs.

Prove me wrong.

Slot car raceways are essentially vanity publishing in the hobby world.

Very sad, but it is almost undeniably true.

 
Isn't this Jim Honeycutt's message: racers/racing doesn't keep the doors open.


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#24 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 11 August 2022 - 11:27 PM

ALL busineses have things in common and an analysis of the PROFIT stream is a primary one. A raceway has many different profit and loss areas and many of use neglect one or another.
1)  RACING requires car and parts sales and marketing to a broad community of racers. Driver classes for NEWBIE, Amatuer, and PRO are required.  Newbie might even need to be handout/rental cars IROC style. Weekly races are for fun and practice.  Monthly races can be for simple plaques or store gift cards. Quarterly and Annual races are EVENTS.
2)  Family/group fun is your basic rental party. Scouts, car club, birthday parties, and other recreational groups are a staple source of year long cash flow.
3)  Mail order can be online or just phone calls. If you can ORDER it, you should be able to ship it within 10 days.
4)  Seasonal changes in YOUR community may mean you can shift gears for a tourist trade, fix bikes, sell ice cream or whatever you can capitalize on.
5)  NO one can survive on a single source of cash flow in this modern age and operating more than one business in your storefront may be a way of thriving.
6) You need to market to the community so that customers know WHO and WHAT and WHERE  you are. All too often customers wander in and say "I never heard of model car racing like this? How long have you been open?"


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#25 Steve Deiters

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 09:06 AM

I worked in the slot car distributor end of things in high school and college.-very late '60's to mid '70's-so I kind of get how the "big picture" operates.

  

Inflation kicked in in the early '70's, the baby boomers who were the backbone of slot racing spending money were aging- 1/1 cars, finding out about girls, going to school, getting drafted, getting married, careers, getting divorced, etc.etc. etc.

 

Then you have being dealt with on the business end of things the "big footprint" issue of the slot car track and the spaced required and the revenue stream needed to pay for that rented space required for the track and inventory coupled with a high inflationary period.

 

It is a tough business model to make work if it can be done at all.  One thought I have had recently is how have bowling alleys (talk about a big footprint) made it for decades?  I rode by one near me on a recent evening and the large parking lot was full.  I'll just leave that as an open ended observation and speculation.

 

I think there will continue to be pockets of commercial racing continuing for one reason or another, but the real long-term future for more universal availability will be in clubs and those I refer to with affection "basement dwellers" running 1/32 on plastic and some routed tracks not to mention HO people who seem to do very well in their own universe.

 

What's the answer?  I don't have one.  The best I can offer is support it the best we can the tracks we have and let's all enjoy it as it evolves to whatever it does.


  • NSwanberg, 917-30, Clyde Romero and 3 others like this





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