Jump to content




Photo

Phase III plumber chassis kit build


  • Please log in to reply
107 replies to this topic

#1 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 08 June 2023 - 08:40 PM

“SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED”

 

I thought it would be fun to build up a Phase III plumber chassis from their kit. I want to see what one looks like without the factory built versions massive amount of solder.

 

Click on any picture to enlarge

 

phase III chassis (2).JPG

 

Here all the bits are dumped in a pile after a quick soak in TARN-X to remove 50+ years of tarnish which preps them  for soldering:

 

phase III chassis (1).JPG

 

The instructions consist of this hand drawn diagram:

 

phase III diagram.jpg

 

I think these pictures from a recent eBay auction will be more helpful:

 

Phase III factory chassis (6).jpg

 

Phase III factory chassis (1).jpg

 

The first picture advertisement I have found for the chassis kit is from a March 1969 issue of Model Racing Journal:

 

MRJ V1N9 mar 69 p3 - Copy.jpg

 

This chassis kit uses a 16D end bell drive motor bracket with a large motor angle. Those characteristics are similar to these 3 top finishers built by Staskie and Emott in the Feb 1969 Hinsdale Manufacturers race:

 

MRJ V1N8 p6 feb 68.jpg

 

Since this will be a first quarter of 1969 build a body other than the soon to be ubiquitous McLaren M8 can be used for a little variety.


  • MSwiss, Tex, Tim Neja and 8 others like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...





#2 Alchemist

Alchemist

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,676 posts
  • Joined: 11-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Far, far away

Posted 08 June 2023 - 11:12 PM

HI Rick,

 

Looking forward to seeing the comparison after you've completed your build version.

 

Thanks Rick.

 

Ernie


Ernie Layacan

#3 team burrito

team burrito

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,149 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 09 June 2023 - 12:58 AM

you should flip it over & make it a left-hand drive - just a thought.


  • Samiam and mreibman like this
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#4 Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,720 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York

Posted 09 June 2023 - 06:05 AM

That chassis will never have looked as good as when you are finished with it.

 

After looking at the pile of bits it's no wonder many were left assembled.

 

How many racers back in the day could actually assemble that and make it aligned, straight and flat. 

 

If you really wanted to replicate the factory piece here is the iron they used.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364215627012

 

 

( Imagine giving a kid a hot iron to burn toxic fumes in the kitchen. We grew up in great times )


  • NSwanberg and ajd350 like this

Joe Lupo


#5 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,315 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 09 June 2023 - 08:11 AM

Phaze iii chassis were sold both assembled & as kits. From 1969-75 I raced the non-plumbered version of this chassis weekly at Modelville Hobby in Framingham, MA. Modelville sold assembled chassis so one didn't have to be a chassis builder in order to compete in the weekly races. All these races were held on the Modelville AMCR Orange & they had 15-20 entrants on Friday & Saturday nights,


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#6 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 09 June 2023 - 10:54 AM

Glad you're following the build Ernie.   :)

 

The main rail has the front axle uprights already bent up at 90 degrees so it can't be flipped over unless they are cut off Russ. I wish this wasn't the case as those uprights caused me hours of chasing my tail while trying to refine all its bends. I'd get everything bent nicely only to find one upright was 1/16" ahead of the other.   :dash2:

 

The good news is that I want to build a CCW rotation, end bell drive version anyway.

 

phase III chassis (4).JPG

 

That is an intimidating pile of parts there Joe especially for a young builder back in the day. I can't help myself, I will be making a few little tweaks to the design so it won't be an exact copy but close enough so it will still be a Phase III.

 

Bill, it's a fun fact that you chose to race the non plumber version. Rodney found some period magazine commentary on this chassis and its plumber that I'll be sharing here soon.


  • Tex, NSwanberg, Peter Horvath and 1 other like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#7 old & gray

old & gray

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,173 posts
  • Joined: 15-April 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CT

Posted 09 June 2023 - 11:37 AM

That chassis will never have looked as good as when you are finished with it.

 

After looking at the pile of bits it's no wonder many were left assembled.

 

How many racers back in the day could actually assemble that and make it aligned, straight and flat. 

 

If you really wanted to replicate the factory piece here is the iron they used.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364215627012

 

 

( Imagine giving a kid a hot iron to burn toxic fumes in the kitchen. We grew up in great times )

 

I started my chassis building with something simular about 1965 to 1966. The 25 watt iron and tips could do alright burning wood but couldn't solder much more than a wire to a motor. I switched to a Weller gun then to a real soldering iron: the Unger with an iron clad tip.

 

I look forward to seeing your version of this Rick.


Bob Schlain

#8 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,315 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 09 June 2023 - 03:16 PM

Bill, it's a fun fact that you chose to race the non plumber version. Rodney found some period magazine commentary on this chassis and its plumber that I'll be sharing here soon.

 

I don't know when Modelville started running the non-plumbered version, but that was the "spec" chassis used when I relocated to the area the summer of '69 & it never changed while I was there. Because these assembled chassis had to be rebuilt before raced, I bought a non-plumber kit at some point also. The non-plumbered version used four different drop arms.

 

Someone was selling the pre-bent wires on eBay within the past year. I don't remember the ends being bent up, so those could probably have been used for CW & CCW chassis.


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#9 Don Weaver

Don Weaver

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,820 posts
  • Joined: 26-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington. SC

Posted 09 June 2023 - 05:56 PM

I have a couple of these without the front uprights pre-bent so either motor configuration will work.

 

Don


  • Bill from NH likes this

Don Weaver

​A slot car racer who never grew up!

 

The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
it will starve to death...


#10 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 09 June 2023 - 08:50 PM

I still use the 1100 degree Ungar (now owned by and labeled Weller) iron with iron clad tip Bob.   :good:

 

I'm stuck with the main rails with the pre-bent axle uprights Bill and Don so I'll have to make due.

 

As I mentioned I was chasing my tail trying to get the main rail wire bends square and parallel. I had literally given up. Everything looked pretty good but it always ended up wider than the jig pins I had setup for the 1 1/4" drop arm. But I finally realize not that much wider. I slipped short pieces of 3/32" tube over those pins and bingo. Everything lines up and the main rail are only spaced 1/64" wider per side than the drop arm.   :dance3:

 

With the main rail ready I mounted my jig motor into the motor bracket and more work was needed. The bracket is way taller than a Mura 16D and keeps the motor 1/32" off the jig block:

 

phase III chassis (7).JPG

 

Ready for the disc sander:

 

phase III chassis (6).JPG

 

In the jig and ready to heat up the Ungar iron:

 

phase III chassis (2).JPG

 

phase III chassis (3).JPG

 

 

 

 


  • Pablo, Peter Horvath and ajd350 like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#11 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,315 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:35 PM

FERRET manufactured the chassis parts for Phaze III. They also sold some of the same chassis under the FERRET name.


  • David Reed likes this
Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#12 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,363 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Tennessee

Posted 10 June 2023 - 10:11 AM

:popcorm1:  :music:  :heart:


Paul Wolcott


#13 Martin

Martin

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,956 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:US

Posted 10 June 2023 - 11:53 AM

I like the way the rails hook over the front axle tube. I had not seen that detail done before.

 

In the "ALL THREE" pic, it mentions, "Notice all three have lead wire control tubes". Do you know what they are referring to?

 

Fun build, its going to be a beauty I am sure. :good:


Martin Windmill

#14 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 10 June 2023 - 12:28 PM

Hi Martin,

 

Emott's cars have short pieced of tube on the drop arm hinge the lead wires are feeding through. The Staskie car has them farther forward on the frame.


Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#15 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,315 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 10 June 2023 - 12:35 PM

I had to enlarge the photo to see the tubes, but they're there. They ran longer leadwire than would be used today & the tubes help keep the leadwire from dragging on the track.


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#16 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 10 June 2023 - 12:50 PM

That photo is a full size scan from SteveO's DVD. You can just click on it to enlarge it or do a "save as" and download it to your computer and really ZOOM UP on it. The original photo quality isn't too bad for an old newsletter.

 

I believe those cars are among the first of Emott's classic 2-rail, no motor box, plumber on the arm chassis.


Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#17 Martin

Martin

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,956 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:US

Posted 10 June 2023 - 03:03 PM

Thanks, I see them clearly now.

Attached Images

  • wire tubes.png

Martin Windmill

#18 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 10 June 2023 - 07:49 PM

Things are clamped down so I can move the jig around in one hand and get the soldering iron where I want it:

 

phase III chassis (9).JPG

 

This is the foundation for the entire chassis build:

 

phase III chassis (10).JPG

 

The main rail is pretty well aligned with the jig motor:

 

phase III chassis (11).JPG

 

The inner most brass rails are next.

 

 


  • Tex, Tim Neja, Peter Horvath and 2 others like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#19 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,174 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 11 June 2023 - 11:42 AM

Rick, I think that 1/32" distance is because many of these chassis contained re-wind motors and the extra clearance is for the endbell screw!?!?


Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#20 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 11 June 2023 - 12:41 PM

Hi Jairus,

 

Maybe, but Mura and Champion motors of the period wouldn't have that problem. If the motor were mounted to the bracket with a pan head screw, the extra clearance would be needed for the screw head to clear the frame rail. I used a socket head screw so I could cut off that 1/32" and lower the motor.


  • Pablo likes this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#21 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 11 June 2023 - 03:34 PM

The inner main rails from the kit installed:

 

phase III chassis (14).JPG

 

I decided to add a 1/16" piano wire cross piece like the Staskie and Emott cars pictured earlier:

 

phase III chassis (15) - Copy.JPG

 

phase III chassis (12).JPG

 

 


  • Jairus, Pablo, Tex and 4 others like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#22 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 12 June 2023 - 12:28 PM

Time to add the final main rails and this is where I am exercising my personal "scratch builder's influence" into the design:

 

phase III chassis (21).jpg

 

Here rails #3 and #4 are positioned in the factory design:

 

phase III chassis (16).JPG

 

As outline above I eliminated rail #3 and attached rail #4 to the front axle tube without the U-brace:

 

phase III chassis (17).JPG

 

The center section before cleanup with the unused factory parts:

 

phase III chassis (18).JPG

 

I'm pausing construction at this point to finalize a period correct 4" W.B. body which determines chassis width and guide lead:

 

phase III chassis (20).JPG


  • Pablo, Tex, Tim Neja and 2 others like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#23 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,315 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 12 June 2023 - 03:20 PM

When i raced the non-plumber Phaze III chassis, we ran a mixture of Lancer, Dynamic, & bodies that came in a red, white, & blue box whose name escapes me. I think Associated actually pulled the bodies. Rick, you show a good selection of bodies in your photo.


  • olescratch likes this
Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#24 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 15 June 2023 - 08:08 PM

Here are the 6 bodies I narrowed it down to for the March/April 1969 time period Bill:

 

Lancer super comp mirage 957 (1).JPG

 

A problem I ran into were the narrow 1/2" wide pans in the kit. If you add up the ten 1/16" frame and plumber rails, two 1/2" pans and the 1 1/4" drop arm the chassis (without any "slopski") would only be 2 7/8" wide. 

 

I've already spaced the chassis main rails 1/32" than the drop arm. I'm also going to build in some "slopski" into the plumber rail spacing and should be able to get closer to 3".

 

The bodies were at least 3" and some closer to 3 1/8" wide, except for this one:

 

Lancer super comp mirage 957 (2).JPG

 

The Lancer Super Competition Low and Wide Ford Mirage is a tad under 3" at the pans but widens out at the fenders to over 3". I mocked up the chassis and the Mirage fits bitch'n and I think the body looks bitch'n too:   :wub:

 

Lancer super comp mirage 957 (5).JPG

 

Lancer super comp mirage 957 (3).JPG

 

Lancer super comp mirage 957 (4).JPG

 

Now I can get back to work on the chassis. The drop arm is next with a 7/8" guide lead.


  • Tex, NSwanberg, James Wendel and 2 others like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#25 Larry Horner

Larry Horner

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 412 posts
  • Joined: 18-March 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 15 June 2023 - 08:13 PM

The detail on that puppy is amazing!







Electric Dreams Online Shop