Jump to content




Photo

Old wing car chassis ID


28 replies to this topic

#1 AB75

AB75

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GA

Posted 24 August 2023 - 04:27 PM

Anyone recognize who made this chassis? This was my first non-box stock wing car. Purchased it around 1990 from Grand Prix Raceway in Smyrna, GA. I've used various motors in it over the years, but the Gr15 shown is what was in it when I bought it.

 

Thanks!

 

IMG_6792.jpeg

 

IMG_6793.jpeg

 

IMG_6794.jpeg


  • NY Nick and mreibman like this
Adam Borkat




#2 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,309 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 24 August 2023 - 07:07 PM

I can't identify the chassis, but the fronts are Slick 7.


  • AB75 likes this
Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#3 Mr. M

Mr. M

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 519 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida Space Coast

Posted 24 August 2023 - 08:48 PM

The bending and style look like a Craig Landry Yeti. Thoughts?


  • Cheater and AB75 like this
Chris McCarty

#4 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,621 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 August 2023 - 08:54 PM

Craig was Zap and more of a tripod guy.

 

My guess is it is a "racer made"/ low volume piece.


  • NY Nick likes this

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#5 Mr. M

Mr. M

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 519 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida Space Coast

Posted 24 August 2023 - 09:16 PM

Yes, Mike, Zap, age makes the details drift. It does look like his style. The bends look jig built, very nice.


  • Cheater likes this
Chris McCarty

#6 AB75

AB75

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GA

Posted 25 August 2023 - 10:42 AM

Thanks for everyone's input, and I'm now pretty confident it's a Zap chassis. 

 

For reference, here are a few known Zap chassis photos, and the metal work is identical. Also for context, Grand Prix Raceway was selling a lot of Zap products at the time, so even though I bought this used, I'm sure it would have been built using on-hand parts.

 

zap1.png

 

zap3.jpg

 

zap2.jpg


Adam Borkat

#7 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,621 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 August 2023 - 11:42 AM

I doubt that is a Zap chassis. Certainly not a production item. I don't think Craig would deviate from his volume work to build something that different.

 

Plus it has what appears to have a longer guide tongue than the Slick 7 ones Craig would have 100s of sitting on his workbench.


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#8 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,309 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 25 August 2023 - 11:59 AM

It might be from Brazil or another So. American country.

 

NH Zap Chassis.jpg

 

Here are three ZAP I-15 chassis of that period. As Mike said, they're tripods.


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#9 mreibman

mreibman

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 594 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merrick, NY

Posted 25 August 2023 - 02:58 PM

When I first saw it, I thought it had a Camen nose, but then I saw it was wire and had lead on top.

The rails and motor box look like they're from the old Camen stuff. Very similar to what Ted Matkowski used to build as a plurimeter in the early '90s. I still have one of the Matkowskis.

 

Found a pic of a camen online. I don't have this chassis.

 

camen 12-15 chassis.jpg


  • AB75 likes this
Mike Reibman
Alleged amateur racer.
Mostly just play with lots of cars.
Able to maintain slot cars with a single bound.
Faster than a speeding Womp.
More powerful than a 36D.
 
 

#10 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 25 August 2023 - 05:58 PM

I would say not one of Craig's but certainly a nicely done wire center rail.

 

Reminded me of this piece of masochism:

 

IMG_0502 Medium.jpeg

 

 


  • mjsh, MSwiss, S.O. Watt and 1 other like this

Jim Honeycutt

 

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#11 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,309 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 25 August 2023 - 06:54 PM

Is this chassis one of your builds, Jim? I've seen the piano wire pillow blocks used before on Japanese chassis.


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#12 Bill Seitz

Bill Seitz

    Still Half-Fast After All These Years

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 469 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, AZ

Posted 25 August 2023 - 06:55 PM

The Camen chassis pictured above has the Snapper formed main rail where the pillow blocks are formed in the wire. The nose is Camen Concord, so that is a Concord chassis. The OP's chassis has spring steel pillow blocks, so it's not Camen. It shares some wire bending style with a Zap chassis, but as has been shown, it's not a typical Zap design. There were other low volume I-15 chassis builders, and I suspect this is from one of them.



#13 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 26 August 2023 - 01:31 PM

Is this chassis one of your builds Jim? I've seen the piano wire pillow blocks used before on Japanese chassis.

 

No, not mine although I've wasted plenty of wire doing similarly crazy stuff.

 

This one was manufactured in quantity by Tim and Garlon Wood from West Texas during the I-15 era, made with either several fancy jigs or farmed out to one of the same wire formers that make wire grocery carts.

 

The Woods brothers were woodworkers apparently offended by paint so their last track had a beautifully finished wood surface complete with varnish and original wood grain... like racing on a tree, but pretty.


  • mjsh, Bill from NH and NSwanberg like this

Jim Honeycutt

 

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#14 mjsh

mjsh

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pine Mountain, GA

Posted 26 August 2023 - 04:51 PM

Looks to me like the Zap light glue tripod with the outside rails cut.


Michael Shepard

#15 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,621 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 August 2023 - 05:20 PM

I doubt it.

 

Motor box looks different. 

 

The non-gear side looks different/straight.

 

The motor brave has it's jogs in different spots.

 

The Zap also looks like the rails might come closer to meeting in the middle.

 

PS - and the motor brace is part of the rails.


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#16 mjsh

mjsh

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pine Mountain, GA

Posted 27 August 2023 - 11:29 AM

Looks like, a more precise word would be inspiration.


  • MSwiss likes this
Michael Shepard

#17 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,309 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 27 August 2023 - 05:01 PM

Camen also sold the Snapper Grp. 15 main rail as a separate piece. Someone probably bought one of these rails & built the piano wire nose on it. There is now one of these on eBay for $20 from Washington state.


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#18 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,621 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 August 2023 - 05:30 PM

No, the chassis in the top picture has traditional pillow blocks.


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#19 Bill Seitz

Bill Seitz

    Still Half-Fast After All These Years

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 469 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, AZ

Posted 27 August 2023 - 06:16 PM

I have 3 chassis built with Camen Snapper main rails, and there's not enough wire length to form the wire nose on the OP's chassis. Camen used spring steel nose pieces with this main rail. As Mike and I have both pointed out, the OP's chassis has spring steel pillow blocks, so this isn't the Camen Snapper/Concord main rail. Jim Honeycutt identified it as coming from some guys in Texas, and I'd believe that.

 

The wire chassis Jim showed does resemble the Camen Snapper main rail, but again, there's not enough wire in the Snapper main rail to create the nose configuration. Jim may know the origin. I don't know if the Snapper main rail was formed in-house at Camen or elsewhere. The similarity of the formed wire "pillow blocks" suggests this wire work was done by the same person/shop.



#20 AB75

AB75

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GA

Posted 29 August 2023 - 08:30 AM

This one was manufactured in quantity by Tim And Garlon Wood from West Texas during the I15 era, made with either several fancy jigs or farmed out to one of the same wire formers that make wire grocery carts.


Jim,

“This one”… Were you referring to the photo you posted or my original post?

Adam


Adam Borkat

#21 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 29 August 2023 - 10:11 AM

No, I was referring to my photo in post #10.
 
The chassis you posted has 11 bends in one piece of wire and the one I posted is the only one I've seen that was comparable, seems like a bit too much work for a "one-off" chassis.
 
If it wasn't the only one available where you got it it was probably built and sold locally because I don't recall ever seeing it available through any of the distributors.


  • MSwiss and AB75 like this

Jim Honeycutt

 

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#22 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,621 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2023 - 09:21 PM

Jim,

 

I've been meaning to post this to show you.

 

I built this as a hobby project in about 1986.

 

The center piece is 13 bends. With the vertical bends to better support the pillow blocks and triangulate the motor attachment points, it was a bit tricky to get flat and with the motor brace level. I think I got  it on the third or fourth try.

 

I'm 99% sure this was the first perimeter I15 chassis, as it created a lot of grumbling that it should be illegal because it was too high tech/not in the spirit of the rules.

 

I was already a Pro when I built it. I finished it just in time to have the younger brother of a friend, Phil(?) Olsen, tech it.

 

He TQ'd and set a World Record, IIRC, the first lap it ran. I'm pretty sure he also won the race. I then lent it out at the Pepsi 500 to a local, Greg Creasy, who I think TQ'd and won. It's all a bit hazy, being 37 years ago, but It was a dominating car. I don't remember ever trying the car.

 

The chassis sits as it does as I had a plan which, obviously, involved lightening the steel nose.

 

I can't remember exactly what. LOL.

 

20230825_182027.jpg

 

20230825_182034.jpg


  • mjsh, Bernard Powell and David Reed like this

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#23 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 30 August 2023 - 08:55 AM

Nice. Fun with piano wire.

 

OTOH... all mass-produced perimeter chassis should be stamped steel. LOL.

 

"The spirit of the rules"... as if creativity rules were about anything but lowering everyone down to the same level.


Jim Honeycutt

 

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#24 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,621 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 August 2023 - 02:04 PM

Thanks.

 

And I'm not very good at bending piano wire. I'm just glad it's cheap. LOL.

 

I have a friend who regularly asks me ("you sure you don't have one?") to see my big race-winning chassis and I never can produce them because I would inevitably remove the wire motor brace to put on my next car.

 

Speaking of I15, as mentioned, I was long gone from racing it when I built that chassis. But I did do it for 1 or 1-1/2  seasons.

 

Using Mura arms, I always thought it was slot car racing 's version of hazing. LOL.


  • NSwanberg likes this

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#25 Bernard Powell

Bernard Powell

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 168 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 22 March 2024 - 01:38 PM

Jim,
 
I've been meaning to post this to show you.
 
I built this as a hobby project in about 1986.
 
The center piece is 13 bends. With the vertical bends to better support the pillow blocks and triangulate the motor attachment points, it was a bit tricky to get flat and with the motor brace level. I think I got  it on the third or fourth try.
 
I'm 99% sure this was the first perimeter I15 chassis, as it created a lot of grumbling that it should be illegal because it was too high tech/not in the spirit of the rules.
 
I was already a Pro when I built it. I finished it just in time to have the younger brother of a friend, Phil(?) Olsen, tech it.
 
He TQ'd and set a World Record, IIRC, the first lap it ran. I'm pretty sure he also won the race. I then lent it out at the Pepsi 500 to a local, Greg Creasy, who I think TQ'd and won. It's all a bit hazy, being 37 years ago, but It was a dominating car. I don't remember ever trying the car.
 
The chassis sits as it does as I had a plan which, obviously, involved lightening the steel nose.
 
I can't remember exactly what. LOL.
 
attachicon.gif 20230825_182027.jpg
 
attachicon.gif 20230825_182034.jpg







Electric Dreams Online Shop