105 replies to this topic

[Wizard Of Iz]

I've had a lot of fun racing with y'all this year.  Thank you for your patience. I swear I'm trying to keep the dang car in the slot. Might have to fire my driver!  

 

I think the current rules that the track owners developed (with a lot of good suggestions from us racers) have produced very close racing.  

 

As we quickly look forward to 2024... and with a goal of starting the Season in January... please toss out any ideas you may have that would make the racing even better.  Not necessarily to make the cars faster... but to make sure racers have good options to maintain a level playing field. Or to level the playing field if you feel it's not currently level.

 

The track owners still make the rules... but they can't make good decisions without input from the racers.

 

So... here's the place to "speak" up if you have a suggestion.

[dalek]

IMO, the only flaw in the current rules is spec'ing the gear ratio in NASCAR and LMP but not limiting the tire diameter (to something reasonable like .750 or even a little smaller).

 

Other than that, I wonder if GTP would have better atendance if it was slowed down and a little more spec'd.  However, there doesn't seem to be a reliable and consistent motor with power that's between a CR102 and a Raptor so what about the following?

 

-- CR 102 in all classes

-- NASCAR and LMP 12/35

-- GTP 14/35 (or maybe 15/35 if it won't overheat)

-- all classes max tire diameter .750

 

Testing would need to be done to make sure there is a decent spread between classes lap times then tweak the gear ratios if necessary.

 

[Hot Slots]

No tire height rule all classes
No gear rule all classes

Why slow the cars down? This racing, not dust watching.

Let the cars eat.

Mid America Road Runner as a motor option for LMP and Nascar.

Add the MID America Toyota HD in LMP drop the Mid America Toyota.

Lets shatter some records.

[dalek]

No tire height rule all classes
No gear rule all classes

Why slow the cars down? This racing, not dust watching.

Let the cars eat.
 

 

The turnouts for the FSCS races have been good so I don't think you can expect the raceway owners to start dropping specs.  

 

Probably the only racers that want to go that route are top-tier racers like yourself but the raceways need all of the other slot car enthusiasts to attend the races in order to make ends meet.

 

GTP races have a tendancy to turn out being a wreckfest.  For quite some time, Marcus has been in favor of slowing that class down.

[Hot Slots]

I propose running GTP first and Nascar last and let's see if the attendance goes down in Nascar.

I think the lunch break is too long at most events and the races don't start as scheduled making races push later into the day, causing attendance drop off.

Don't get me wrong some people can't keep up with them and they are too fast for some, but that's only a couple of racers.

[Hot Slots]

If yall wanted to slow down GTP with a CR102 and give it more gear I dont think its a bad idea.

But rules on tires height and slowing everything down is too much.

I'll tell ya Dale, I thought it was awesome hearing from Robbie Deese tell me that they run the Phoenix Supra where he races in the gtp class. That would be some wild stuff right there.

[Wizard Of Iz]

No tire height rule all classes
No gear rule all classes

Why slow the cars down? This racing, not dust watching.

Let the cars eat.

Mid America Road Runner as a motor option for LMP and Nascar.

Add the MID America Toyota HD in LMP drop the Mid America Toyota.

Lets shatter some records.

 

 

I'm not in favor of tire height rules either ... as long as the chassis clearance passes tech.    

 

I didn't think I'd like the gear spec rule when I started back in 2022.  But with no track to test on, it's proved to be one less thing to worry about.  If the rules changed to drop the spec, I'd roll with it.

 

IF the Road Runner is truly exactly the same as a CR102 ... why not allow the option.  I haven't even held one in my hands, so I don't really know.    Might not be a bad idea to follow GRRR's motor rules so the handful of guys that race in both series can use the same motor program. (Albeit with a pinion change.)

 

The current Mid-America Toyota is really good.  I kinda think the HD version of it might be "too" good.  Right now, all three LMP bodies are landing on the podium.  Guess I need to obtain one and try it.

 

I kinda like GTP being the speed and creativity class.  I'd also be fine with the CR102 being the only motor for all three classe and let weight rules and body rules dictate the speed differences between classes.

[Hot Slots]

Here's a comparison photo of the LMP body Im proposing.

Attached Images

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[Wizard Of Iz]

Your picture might just have persuaded me.  Might be a more level option to the Kelly and the Ralphie.  

 

I'd truly be in favor of the Middy being the ONLY body since it's the only one that's a true .007.  

[MSwiss]

IF the Road Runner is truly exactly the same as a CR102 ... why not allow the option. 

I'm not sure who told you that, but assuming the one I bought from a distributor is not an unicorn, it is not.

 

Things that are the same;

1-neo magnets appear to be identical or at least the same thickness.

2-the comm is the same .150" diameter.

3-the arm resistance is approximately the same.

 

Things that are different;

1-the armature blank is different. The space between the tips is closer. 

2-the timing is different. On the 102, the edge of the brush comes right up to the slot. On the RR, the brush clearly overlaps the slot.

3-using my cheap Harbor Freight digital scale, the RR is approximately 2 grams heavier. Other people have quoted the 2 gram difference to me.

4-it appears, again using the cheap scale,  approximately 25% of the extra weight comes from the armature and 75% from the can.

[Wizard Of Iz]

 

I'm not sure who told you that, but assuming the one I bought from a distributor is not an unicorn, it is not.

 

Things that are the same;

1-neo magnets appear to be identical or at least the same thickness.

2-the comm is the same .150" diameter.

3-the arm resistance is approximately the same.

 

Things that are different;

1-the armature blank is different. The space between the tips is closer. 

2-the timing is different. On the 102, the edge of the brush comes right up to the slot. On the RR, the brush clearly overlaps the slot.

3-using my cheap Harbor Freight digital scale, the RR is approximately 2 grams heavier. Other people have quoted the 2 gram difference to me.

4-it appears, again using the cheap scale,  approximately 25% of the extra weight comes from the armature and 75% from the can.

 

 

 

That's good information.  Thanks, Mike.

[dalek]

FWIW, I have a Road Runner that Marcus gave me to try out. 

 

I ran it in a Friday night P-1 NASCAR race or LMP race (I don't remember which) geared 14/35 (the same spec as CR102's). 

 

The lap times were typical of what I get from 102's.

 

[MJProcko]

No tire height rule all classes
No gear rule all classes

Why slow the cars down? This racing, not dust watching.

Let the cars eat.

Mid America Road Runner as a motor option for LMP and Nascar.

Add the MID America Toyota HD in LMP drop the Mid America Toyota.

Lets shatter some records.

While I think the Mid America Toyota is the only LMP body presently allowed that is a true LMP body with their Porsche almost keeping the true spirit of LMP. Allowing the Mid America Toyota HD only seems fair since the others have already gone to an HD version (side wings). And yes I know RTR has an even more HD version too. Now go back to true LMP bodies would make for a true scale looking car.

[Tampabay racer]

Allow the Road Runner motor and the mid America Toyota HD. That body is no different than the Kelly or the Orca.

Also allow the Mid-America Gemini chassis.

[Tampabay racer]

The road runner is no faster than the CR102 and its a couple $$$$ cheaper.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Dale and I (as non-voting advisors) were able to sit with Ed and Marcus on Sunday afternoon to talk about the ideas for 2024 that have been brought up in this thread.  Joe was invited, but unfortunately, couldn't get away from his shop in Vero. (Hey ... it takes a LOT to keep a raceway open 7 days a week.)

 

I'll work on getting the 2024 Guidelines typed up this week - at least in draft form - so Marcus, Ed, and Joe can sign off on the final version.  For now .... here are the highlights:

 

 

Race Schedule

The 2024 Season will kickoff on Saturday, January 13th at Fast Eddie's Slot Car Raceway in Pinellas Park. In fact,  all of the races are currently planned to be held on Saturdays.  The 2024 Season is planned fo race every month for a total of 12 races.  I'll post the complete schedule as soon as it's firmed up. 

 

Edit 11/24/23 ..... Adding Schedule Preview for the first three months:

 

I hope to have the complete schedule ready for release soon.  Just a few dates and locations to confirm to avoid any conflicts.  Here's the first three months:

 

FSCS 2024 Schedule Preview

 

Saturday, January 13, 2024 - Fast Eddie's Slot Car Raceway (FER) - Pinellas Park, FL

 

Saturday, February 10, 2024 - P1 Slot Car Raceway (P1R) - Winter Garden, FL

 

Saturday, March 9, 2024 - Slot Car Raceway  & Hobbies (SRH) - Vero Beach, FL

 

Saturday, April 13, 2024 - TBD

 

 

 

Race Format

When possible (and logical) the A Main will have 8 racers.  For example, if there are 17 racers ... it will be A-8 and B-9.  The 2023 rules call for the opposite.

 

Tech

The Series is going to place a renewed emphasis on consistency in the Tech process and keeping the program running efficiently.  A key to this is having the same Tech Director at each track.  So .... I've volunteered to Tech.  And I plan to recruit a volunteer at each race to assist so that there is more than one set of eyes looking at the cars.

 

I plan to get back in the habit of marking the chassis, motor, and body at tech to make sure the same car is used the entire race.  And someone else will need to tech my car.  

 

We will be taking a closer look at the three cars that make the Podium to insure that the cars are still in-spec at the end of the race.  If one (or more) fail Post-Race inspection, we will then Tech additional cars until we have a legal podium.  BTW .... the weight rule for Stock Car and LMP applies for the entire race ... including Post-Race.  If your car is "out of spec" during the race, you will have the opportunity to make it legal under Green Flag conditions.  If your car is "out of spec" during Post-Race Inspection, you will be DQ'd.  My advice is to weigh your car with the smallest tires you own to insure that it will be at the proper weight at the end of race in spite of tire wear.

 

Chassis (edited 11/8/23)

Adding the Mid-America Gemini chassis

 

 

Stock Car

Adding the Kelly Daytona COT body

 

LMP

Adding the Mid-America High Downforce Toyota

 

GTP

Adding the Ralph Thorne Racing Revolution

 

If I come across anything else from my scribbled notes, I'll come back and edit this post.

[Tampabay racer]

What about the roadrunner motor and the Gemini chassis?

[Hot Slots]

What about the roadrunner motor and the Gemini chassis?

If the series used the Road Runner this would help simplify tech with only 1 gear ratio rule. 14-35. Instead of the 13-35 with the Retro Eagle and 14-35 CR-102.

[Wizard Of Iz]

What about the roadrunner motor and the Gemini chassis?

Told you my notes were scribbled. Sorry about that.

Yes, the series is adding the Mid-America Gemini chassis. I’ll edit my post when I get to a computer instead of my iPhone.

No on the Roadrunner at this time. The feeling was that there are still guys using the Mid-America Retro Eagle and no need to add another motor at this time.

[Wizard Of Iz]

If the series used the Road Runner this would help simplify tech with only 1 gear ratio rule. 14-35. Instead of the 13-35 with the Retro Eagle and 14-35 CR-102.

I agree.

Good idea to think about as racers use up their Retro Eagle motor program.

[Bucky]

Can someone post a picture of the Kelly COT body? I have not been able to find one online.

[MJProcko]

Can someone post a picture of the Kelly COT body? I have not been able to find one online.

[Hot Slots]

The Mid America Retro Eagle has no chance against the 14t CR102.

I think this hurts the series more in my opinion, Id be upset if I had an option for a motor thats cheaper thinking I had a chance to compete against the more expensive CR102 and be smashed all over the track.

Just my 2 cents.

[Wizard Of Iz]

The Mid America Retro Eagle has no chance against the 14t CR102.

I think this hurts the series more in my opinion, Id be upset if I had an option for a motor thats cheaper thinking I had a chance to compete against the more expensive CR102 and be smashed all over the track.

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

I see your point.

 

Let's think about how we got to where we are.  The 13T CR102 was a tick slower than the 13T Retro Eagle so nearly (all?) everyone was using the Retro Eagle ... but the Retro Eagle had a fairly short life expectancy.  Racers (me included) asked for a 14T on the CR102 in hopes of making it "even" with the Retro Eagle.  So .... Ed, Marcus, and Mike(??) went along with it even though they were going to lose sales due to the CR102's longer life expectancy. 

 

I'm not mad that they kept motors the same for 2024.  A little consistency is nice.

 

Times like this I wish that I still had a raceway so I could see firsthand more real-world testing between the CR102 and the Roadrunner.

[Wizard Of Iz]

 

 

Thank you!   I forgot to write down the part number the other day.