22 replies to this topic

[IRRA Retro Racing]

Effective March 1, 2024, Stock Car Bodies must have a .012 thickness at the roof without any tape or stickers applied to the body.  This measurement will be made with special calipers with the interior pulled down to enable access. This measurement is in addition to the already required .012 thickness for the hood and .008 for the sides all without tape. "Sides" is defined as the area from the the roof line to the bottom of the body to include the window area.  Adding liquid mask, shoe goo, or other similar items to build up body thickness is not permitted. In addition all bodies will be weighed with interiors and pins in and must meet a minimum of 10 grams.

 

This update is necessary due to some manufactures supplying non-conforming bodies.

 

The caliper extensions are available from Amazon. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...ools,243&sr=1-1

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Bruce]

.012 thickness? .008 sides? Exactly what I thought was going to happen, everyone on the BoD covering their ***. You basically just stuck every raceway and manufacturer with useless bodies on their walls that measure correctly. Why is it that Ralph Thorne and Kelly have .014" to .015" roofs?

 

This rule clarification is a joke. You are allowing the body to be pulled out of .010" material, add some paint it will be .012". You gonna measure the windows? Whatever, at least we have a measurement now.

 

To all the Retro racers and body manufacturers out there who ran by the rules, I apologize for even pursuing such a fruitless task. Those in charge have lost their way, and the spirit of Retro is dead.

 

So all you guys who ran by the rules need to to buy thinner bodies now, the cheaters won, I'm sorry. Disgusting. I've been racing all my life in many forms of motorsports, and this is just a blatant disregard for what is right.

 

Everyone of you guys on the BoD have lost your way, and my respect. Not that you care. The IRRA died with Tony P.

[Noose]

Matt, the windows are part of the sides and are a measuring point.

 

And for your info, Kelly bodies were the ones that started this when select racers got non-conforming bodies.

[Matt Bruce]

No, Noose, this started when the IRRA didn't tech correctly and let this get through. This is years in the making, I watched it evolve with my own eyes. The IRRA has an opportunity to fix it now. Don't blame the manufacturers. They all realized nobody was enforcing the rule, and made what the racers wanted to sell bodies.

[Phil Hackett]

As an outside observer I feel Matt is right about the direction of the IRRA.

 

Now that there are tools for easily measuring body thickness, this will allow the racers to manually thin out bodies in specific areas to a specification. This is going to make it more work for everyone to be competitive. As an organization who had a major aversion to motor work, I find the body spec and the oncoming work to the bodies ironic.

[Bill Breck]

This wasn't always true. As you may recall, the original motor spec for the IRRA was a sealed FK motor from Pro Slot which was allowed to be "refurbished" by a few select refurbishers. 
 
I also agree with Matt about the direction of the rules, and as a result I won't be too surprised if some tracks and regional Retro series come up with their own "local rules" that ignore or modify certain IRRA rules.

[JBProducts]

A body from a manufacturer should be accessible to all racers sold by local tracks. The bodies should be sold in different variant body thicknesses to become legal.

In this case in my mind that body that is being modified to suit only a select few racers should be deemed illegal as it does not meet the current body thickness requirement that are currently available to all racers.

 

The body thickness that is currently being sold to local tracks should be the only thickness range that is legal. If they want that said modified body to become legal than it must be accessible from local tracks.

 

For example, in Flexi you see different body thickness variants sold 0.015" / 0.010" / 0.007" and so forth. 

[JBProducts]

In my opinion, have a no thickness rule. Have a minimum weight rule at 10 grams as stated above. Any body that is thinner/modified than what that manufacturer currently sells to all the racers must submit that body to become legal as a different thickness that must be available to all racers
 
Edit: Also to add to this, nothing can be added to the body to meet the minimum weight requirement. All that is allowed is tape for the Interior and tape/body enforcement on the sides for the pins.

[old & gray]

Isn't this just asking for acid-dipped vinyl roofs and lead in the rocker panels? 
 
As in the Trans-Am cars.

[Cheater]

Bob, reports are that some racers sand the roofs to thin them.

 

Also, reported as having been done in the past to flexi body sides.

[JerseyJohn]

Not that anyone cares about my opinion but most of this body BS really only effects the A> MAINERS. The majority of us don't care . I like thicker bodies because they last longer. Most of us just want to race and have fun.

That being said ,to keep what's on a tracks wall relevant having a minimum weight body 10 g is a good start. Than the morons can sand away. Remember thin bodies are hard to marshal. Ops body tore ,so sorry  lol

[Dominator]

Guys Noose, Jay, and myself measured multiple bodies from varying manufactures.  The over the counter bodies I purchased by Red Fox, Kelly, Ralph Thorne, and DDS all averaged roof thickness between .0115-.013.  All of these varied by .0005 depending on point of contact on the roof.  The RTR was the thickest at .013. 

 

My RTR's were purchased shortly after they were released.  The Kelly's I have purchased over the years have never been thinner than .0105 on the sides which the exception of one that was .010.  Red Fox same thing.

 

The window measurement was added to eliminate anyone trying to "fluff" the area's being measured.  As for how much paint adds to the overall thickness I can only speak for myself using rattle cans.  Generally when I paint it adds about .0005".  So if someone has heavy paint the window's can be measured for a true thickness. 

 

Raceways should not be stuck with inventory that can't be sold if the correct bodies were sent to the raceway.  Two weeks ago at PJ there about 15 painted Kelly stock car bodies on the wall.  After a "squeeze test" (which the majority of racers do before purchasing) 14 were the right thickness.  One was questionable/on the boarder. 

[Clyde Romero]

this body issue does seem that it has gotten out of control. it really affects, like Jersey said, the main guys who go the distance to find the small difference in whatever they can get away with, which is sad. All that being said, a 3 strikes and you out rule when your car is being tech would stop this, in my opinion.

 

The tech guy has enough pressure on him especially at a large event like the Fall Brawl. 

 

Another way to handle this is the winning cars get teched after the race. 

 

If, in fact, model car racing is to mimic what real racing is.

 

Just a thought. 

[MSwiss]

Guys Noose, Jay, and myself measured multiple bodies from varying manufactures.  The over the counter bodies I purchased by Red Fox, Kelly, Ralph Thorne, and DDS all averaged roof thickness between .0115-.013.  All of these varied by .0005 depending on point of contact on the roof.  The RTR was the thickest at .013. 

 

My RTR's were purchased shortly after they were released.  The Kelly's I have purchased over the years have never been thinner than .0105 on the sides which the exception of one that was .010.  Red Fox same thing.

 

The window measurement was added to eliminate anyone trying to "fluff" the area's being measured.  As for how much paint adds to the overall thickness I can only speak for myself using rattle cans.  Generally when I paint it adds about .0005".  So if someone has heavy paint the window's can be measured for a true thickness. 

 

Raceways should not be stuck with inventory that can't be sold if the correct bodies were sent to the raceway.  Two weeks ago at PJ there about 15 painted Kelly stock car bodies on the wall.  After a "squeeze test" (which the majority of racers do before purchasing) 14 were the right thickness.  One was questionable/on the boarder. 

Dom,

Super-thanks to Noose, Jay and yourself, for all the hard work you guys have done  on this.

 

Your thick skin is the 8th Wonder of the World.

 

Racers have no idea how much time has been spent on this subject.

 

Maybe the below will give them an idea.

 

Any thought that we are bowing to the body manufacturers is absolutely silly.

 

This is the convergence of a few racers that really feel a need to win, combined with companies that want to sell product, and the complexities of pulling polycarbonate.

 

From my "View New Content", 9 pages(25 posts per page) or 201 posts on the subject;

 

[Matt Bruce]

Yes, high fives all around Mike. The BoD was called out for not having clear dimensions for their bodies, and for zero way of checking them in the first place, making the rule subjective as it is. After a zillion comments by racers, the BoD realized hey we need to address this. And instead of just enforcing what was assumed to be the dimensions that the majority of manufacturers used out there .015 base material, .012 hood, .010 sides, you choose to move the goalposts even further by changing the side dimensions to .008(which was the original side thickness for CanAm) and put a .012 thickness on a painted body mind you, roof dimension, which not one manufacturer I spoke too sees a 20% reduction on their roof when pulling.015 material. This was all done to include one body maker, the one making the thinnest bodies, the one everyone is using, even those racers on the BoD who made the changes. Heres what I see are the pluses going forward:
1) We now have a dimension (Questionable or not) in black and white so everyone knows the playing field.
2) Fifteen different ways to measure said questionable dimensions.
3) Now every body maker can adjust their current bodies to the questionable dimensions.
4) No more subjective rule.
Congratulations, you accomplished what should have been there from the very beginning, the only difference is you included making the body specs yet even thinner by changing the sides now to .008 just to be sure everyones bodies pass.

[MSwiss]

.008" sides was announced 14 months ago and has been the rule for over a year.

 

[Eddie Fleming]

Like Jersey John no body cares about my opinion on the subject, but I will say this. I sympathies with the people doing tech and trying to do a good job. I did it for a time with the SERRA and the flack you get from some people is amazing.

 

We do not have a line of people or manufacturers beating the doors down to get involved in the hobby. Tech people and rule makers are walking a line trying to create a fair and enjoyable sport and at the same time not run off anyone. 

 

I wish them and the rest of us the best of luck.

[John Luongo]

people dont like change, esp having rules/regulations changed. i did commercial vehicle enforcement and accident investigation for almost 30yrs made more enemies than i did friends, but we all used the same rules, nothing grey - either black or white. rules/guidance is needed to keep things uniform. your car that passes tech in nj should also pass in mass, ny or any other area using the same rules. parts that you purchase in one state should be usable in other states and venues. we race toy cars but, they are race cars and racers will always look at things outside the box. i think that noose and other tech inspectors do a good thankless job and now with a means to verify the rules with measurements, should help keep things on the up and up. infact, they may need an additional tech inspector with extra calipers to help move things along. of course, with the body removed for measurement and weighing, the rest of the car can get a closer once-over to keep things kosher.

[Matt Bruce]

Yes, 14 months, just about around the time that body maker started pulling lol. Like I said, paint me as the bad guy all you want, I never said when the rule was changed, but Im sure most of us are curious why it was ever altered. And Eddie, I would be delighted to help check body thickness, but nobody ever seems to ask.

[Chubby]

Yes, 14 months, just about around the time that body maker started pulling lol. Like I said, paint me as the bad guy all you want, I never said when the rule was changed, but Im sure most of us are curious why it was ever altered. And Eddie, I would be delighted to help check body thickness, but nobody ever seems to ask.

Hmm…14 months…

[MSwiss]

Yes, 14 months, just about around the time that body maker started pulling lol. Like I said, paint me as the bad guy all you want, I never said when the rule was changed, but Im sure most of us are curious why it was ever altered. And Eddie, I would be delighted to help check body thickness, but nobody ever seems to ask.

The only "recent body maker " I can think of is DDS.

 

If that's the case, you are accusing the IRRA of changing the rules to accommodate a body that hadn't been submitted to us yet, and wasn't approved until 3 months later.

 

And of minor note, I haven't been carrying Retro bodies since the Sano in October of 2022, and I have never stocked a DDS body.

 

EDIT - Paint you as the bad guy? Go back and read your outrageous posts #2 & #4 in this thread.

 

[Racer36]

Hmmm….14 months….

that seems to coincide with the order of thin Charger bodies by the “manager” of a certain Long Island raceway from a manufacturer in the southern hemisphere. Unfortunately those bodies got out in normal distribution and have been popping up ever since.

I can’t imagine why a “ legitimate “ raceway would order bodies that they knew were not legal.

[MSwiss]

Enough.

 

Too many accusations are being thrown around.

 

Take it to FB.