23 replies to this topic

[Dave Crevie]

This video shows how a large decorative panel is made on a large platen high speed CNC router. Over history, something like this would have had to be made by highly skilled woodcarvers, over a period of many months. This panel was fabbed in a few hours, with only finish sanding, staining and varnishing left to do. Already there are people making slot tracks with these machines. It may just be the future for slot racing, making it easier and more profitable to set up a slot car shop.

 

https://youtu.be/IaufzuOSigs?si=dNnH8GSj0WRn3stH 

 

 I always thought that part of the loss in popularity was, as tracks closed down, it became a longer trek to get to one. If there were more tracks again, even if they are not grandiose ones with many tracks, might we see a resurgence in the hobby?

[jimht]

CNC routing might make it easier to rapidly make bare wood tracks but the finish out is still expensive and time consuming.

 

Besides, store fixtures (such as tracks) are minor expenses compared to leasing costs and inventory.

 

Raceways fail because the income doesn't match the operating cost.

 

The optimal sizing for long term success is probably one or two smaller than 100' long tracks plus a drag strip in under 1500 square feet.

[Bill Breck]

Viper used to have a video on Youtube that showed how they make their HO scale tracks by routing them in Sintra plastic. 

[Dave Crevie]

The optimal sizing for long term success is probably one or two smaller than 100' long tracks plus a drag strip in under 1500 square feet.

 

hat's the idea I was trying to get across in my last paragraph. Smaller operations, less intimidating to the casual, walk in customer. It's like the old time rock and roll music marketing strategy. You need a hook. Once they are hooked, drag them into the big time. But let them move at their own pace. 

 

I've routed a couple of small tracks. Wasn't as exciting as they told me it would be. CNC routing makes it easy to construct a truly sectional routed track. And with the new cheaper machines, we will see more shops opening up that would be capable of doing the sections, at a reasonable price. There are even CNC routers that you can assemble yourself, in your basement. Even on Amazon. You have to be carefull with some of the Chinese machines since they only take a 1/8" dia. bit. Most are under $2,000, even a few under $1,000. As a rule, routers will only cut wood and plastic. A few will do aluminum. I don't know any that will cut steel. You need a CNC machining center for that. 

[Steve Ogilvie]

Zippity had a thread on here about a new track in New Zealand. It was all CNC routed. This isn't a new thing and it doesn't save any money. CNC routing a commercial track is very expensive, a machine big enough to route a 5x9 sheet of anything costs a lot. The advantage is the time savings and the fact that you can use other materials like baltic birch that is very difficult to route by hand.

[Pappy]

This is the CNC I just bought. It's a Longmill 30x30 made by Sienci Labs. It's a good buy for the money considering it's size and what you can do with it.

 

I'm starting to figure out how to program and run it. I made the little black plastic brackets used to mount brushless motors in 1/32 plastic chassis cars in these videos. http://slotblog.net/...-velocity-kits/

 

I'm even making slot car chassis with it out of phenolic.

 

 

[Dave Crevie]

I'm not convinced a four lane home track needs to have  larger than four foot radius curves. Take a foot away from the sheet for the aprons, and you can still cut 3 1/2 foot radius outside curves. Totally possible in a 48 by 96 inch machine. The big price jump comes when you need an industrial size machine with a bigger table. You could actually do a 4 x 8 sheet in a 48 x 48 inch machine by shifting the sheet and flopping the program. Do half the sheet at a time. Even doing all that, it is much faster than hand routing. And with a resolution of .005 inch, much more accurate. Less headaches with slots aligning section to section during assembly. 

 

This one from Amazon. Too small for slot tracks. But a larger one might be able to cut sections that could be mounted to a 4 x 8 foot sheet like a plastic track. Gives you more flexibility in layout design.

 

 

 

This one is from EagleTec, and is a kit you assemble. Not industrial grade, but pretty close if you believe what they are telling you. 

$5100.00 base price. (Fully operational price. Add ons are vacuum table, larger h.p. spindle motor, finished assembly of some sections.

 

 

 

Pappy; Be carefull. You might open up a market for the home racing guys. A better chassis that they can mount their plastic bodies to. Ever consider using a carbon fiber composite? You could finish the project I started years ago. Still think it could be a better material for open wing cars than aluminum.

 

[breese]

This is a CNC I have started building...

Can be customized to just about any size.

Mine will handle a full 4x7 sheet when done for my projects.

 

https://docs.v1e.com/lowrider/

[Bill from NH]

Butch, how are you holding CNC chassis parts together? Are you using epoxy or some other adhesive?

 

I recall several carbon fiber wing car chassis being at the '97 USRA Nats held at Manchester. I had the opportunity then to talk with Rudy Garriga, owner of Slick 7, for a half hour about carbon fiber chassis & their future. He mentioned they had been experimenting with them in CA, but at the time, one of their shortcomings was the need for metal fasteners to be used for motor mounting. This may have been overcome during the past 30 years.

[Dave Crevie]

For my composite frame, I added a plate to the bottom of the motor box area to solder in the pillow blocks and motor. The pillow blocks were press fit into the composite. The plate was glued into a recess in the carbon fiber with a special military spec adhesive, and a bit of solder was used to join the pillow blocks to the metal plate. The composite I used was actually RAM, radar absorbing material, used on military aircraft. While I'm sure the adhesive would hold the steel plate in position in any racing hit, I added 4 hollow rivets to give it a bit more strength. The adhesive was designed to hold the RAM on the titanium substructure of the jets at supersonic speeds, and the vibrations that are often created at those speeds. The RAM material used to patch bullet holes and such, has an adhesive backing. Be cool to get some of that to see how it sticks. 

 

At the point that I stopped working on this project, (retro racing was just getting started, and I wanted to concentrate on that), I was running various designs through stress analysis to try to get a handle on just how much flex worked best. Without any hard and fast info in regard to aluminum frames, it was trial and error. I was still a ways off. 

 

 

[Pappy]

Butch, how are you holding CNC chassis parts together? Are you using epoxy or some other adhesive?

 

 

Bill, these chassis are for 1/32 Formula Fords with 050 motors in them. I use Shoe Goo to hold them together because they aren't very fast. I tried super glue but it didn't work on phenolic.

[MSwiss]

I agree with pretty everything and everybody in this thread.

 

If CNC routing was the magic elixir to build commercial raceway and home tracks, there would be ones pre-built, wrapped in shrinkwrap, sitting on pallets, ready to ship.

 

Routing, while a major part of track construction, still isn't a big enough percentage to encourage the above.

 

On my 3 tracks, routing was about the only thing I got any satisfaction out of.

 

Everything else is monotonous, repetitive BS.

 

I especially like the mindless job of cutting the braid recess.

 

Speaking of braid recess, on one of the original CNC cut tracks used at the ISRA Worlds, I was told that the CNC cut braid recess was imprecise enough that it created a problem for all but one top racer(but not the best), who unlocked the secret to getting around the varying recesses, and dominated the event.

 

That said, it certainly makes sense people like Janis Nabokins and Mr. Trax in Australia, who I think are both full time track builders, rely heavily on CNC.

 

In Mr. Trax'x case, to get his modular tables to line up to be used in multiple configurations.

 

He might be the exception on having routed tracks, ready to ship, because of that system.

[Dave Crevie]

Wow! Mike. My new hero! I found routing to be the most miserable, frustrating part of building a track. And I never built anything on the scale of a commercial track. For the last track I was involved in, I made a special cutter that cut the braid recess and the slot at the same time. Worked pretty well. Haven't a clue where it is now. It got passed around to pretty much everyone who was building a routed basement track at the time. 

 

 

 

Quote;

 

If CNC routing was the magic elixir to build commercial raceway and home tracks, there would be ones pre-built, wrapped in shrinkwrap, sitting on pallets, ready to ship.

 

 

And that might just be the savior for slot racing. Pre-fabbed tracks that could be either assembled by the sellers techs, or assembled by the purchaser. Sorta like American did.They could be offered in varying sizes from small basement tracks, to large commercial tracks. There was a time when nearly every retail business with some spare square footage had a small slot track. Laundromats, bike shops, hardware stores. Even local grocery stores. The west coast was loaded with tracks.   

[Mike Patterson]

A former track owner/builder I knew in Newark, Ohio, wrote some software for CNC routing slot car tracks. For turns, you just had to enter the radius and degree of banking, and it would do the rest. It would even route the side walls. AFAIK, he used it to build one track in a mini-Windsor style. Here's some pics:

 

 

 

The finished track. IIRC, the lap length was 77 feet.

 

 

[Bill from NH]

Mike, do you know if this track was installed elsewhere after Newark closed?

[MSwiss]

A former track owner/builder I knew in Newark, Ohio, wrote some software for CNC routing slot car tracks. For turns, you just had to enter the radius and degree of banking, and it would do the rest. It would even route the side walls. AFAIK, he used it to build one track.

Mike,

Here's your thread on that build.

 

http://slotblog.net/... +leach +newark

 

Wasn't Mike also involved in the first CNC cut King track, that I think Chris Dadds also was involved with?

[Paul Menkens]

Wasn't the 190' flat track at MSR routed out of PVC by CNC?

[MSwiss]

I've never heard of one cut from PVC.(not saying there wasn't)

 

What's MSR?

[Bill from NH]

MSR= Main Street Racing, Windsor, VT

[MSwiss]

Thanks.

 

Great looking track.

 

I don't remember any reference to it being PVC.

 

Is he still open?

[Paul Menkens]

Thanks.

 

Great looking track.

 

I don't remember any reference to it being PVC.

 

Is he still open?

It iz still open, I will find out if it is made out of PVC, I thought I read that in one of the local papers, it was deff routed by CNC, the owner iz a retired machinist https://www.eagletim...34b1b58126.html

[Bill from NH]

You could also ask Dickie Pearson on here. He goes by the name dungeonracer. Dickie has been up to MSR to race several times. Dickie, himself, has built a number of different tracks in New England,

[Mike Patterson]

Mike, do you know if this track was installed elsewhere after Newark closed?

Bill, the track was sold to somebody who was going to put it in his basement, but I don't remember where that person was located.

 

Wasn't Mike also involved in the first CNC cut King track, that I think Chris Dadds also was involved with?

Mike, yes. Mike Leach designed it, and Chris routed it on his homemade CNC router. AFAIK, it's still at Bullit Speedway in Kentucky. The UK Black that Mike had was also CNC routed, and it's now in Washington, PA. Both tracks were utilized in the USRA Division 2 championships that Mike hosted in 1998.

[Tim Neja]

They have a website---very cool track and his car wash actually pays the bills to support the racing!! Very nice looking track and it looks like it may be PVC!