20 replies to this topic

[breese]

I am looking for information on what is considered the best way to break in the Mid-America Enforcer motor.
The website states "Do not break in on a power supply."
 
Mid-America Enforcer Monster Motor
 
I will be running this motor on the Mid-America king track and last I checked the track was set to 13.8v.
 
Suggestions, ideas?
 
Thanks.

[Cheater]

Install the motor in a car and drive it on the track.

[Bill Seitz]

A drawback of the crimped endbell motors is the limited life caused by the brushes wearing out. Primarily what break-in does is seat the brushes to the comm. Unfortunately, this also shortens the useful life of the motor. By the time the brushes have full contact with the comm, they can be close to half-worn, and starting at around 3/4 worn, the motor starts slowing down.

 

One of the manufacturers suggested this: install motor in car correctly geared and run 20 laps on track, allow motor to cool completely, then run another 20 laps and cool completely again. The motor is now ready to race.

[MG Brown]

Check with Roger.

[team burrito]

Break it in with water for about 30 sec at 3 volts, dry it off with compressed air and run it at 3 volts for 5 mins.

[MSwiss]

Bob,

 

Please don't listen to the above suggestion.

 

I've never heard of a real FK style motor that can be water broken in for 30 seconds. 

[team burrito]

Break it in with water for about 30 sec at 3 volts, dry it off with compressed air and run it at 3 volts for 5 mins.

 

Bob, please don't listen to the above suggestion.

I've never heard of a real FK style motor that can be water broken in for 30 seconds. 

 

It works fine for me – less heat and it does break in the brushes. i wait until the water gets a little dirty, then pull it out. Any more than a minute and you may lose the brushes.
 

[zipper]

i tried once and lost the brushes perhaps in ten seconds - best to keep the revs really low!

[breese]

Thank you, everyone, for the input.

 

I think I hurt the first motor by running it a little hard on track when breaking it in.

 

With this one I am going to run a few slower laps, monitor temp, let it cool down. Repeat a few times....

 

I have the Carsteen controller with dual chokes. I think I will turn both all the way up at first to restrict low and high speed power.

[Bucky]

What's gained by running a motor at low speed on the track versus driving it normally (faster) to break it in? I've been doing the latter with FK motors, and they seem to break in (brushes contour to comm) pretty quickly.

[breese]

The airgaps between the brushes and arm cause arcing thereby causing possible damage to the arm.

Once the brushes are fully seated, the arcing is almost completely eliminated.

 

I am sure there are others here with more info... It's one reason I asked about this break-in procedure.

[Sloter]

I find broken in motors run better. I free run the motors at 1 hour at 4 volts and 1 hour at 6 volts and clean out with alcohol or electrical cleaner. Blow dry, lube bushings very lightly, and go racing. I almost never lube the brush end bushing after initial very light lube.

 

I agree 100% with Breese above about arcing brushes with new motor.

 

Bob

[Danny Zona]

What's gained by running a motor at low speed on the track versus driving it normally (faster) to break it in? I've been doing the latter with FK motors, and they seem to break in (brushes contour to comm) pretty quickly.

 

I've been having better luck just breaking in FK motors by logging laps.

The only time I dip or run them on a power supply is at hand-out motor races. Only because of the limited track time.

[breese]

I find broken in motors run better. I free run the motors at 1 hour at 4 volts and 1 hour at 6 volts and clean out with alcohol or electrical cleaner. 

 

Run better, as in more constant over longer track times?

 

My first of these motors over the first 20 or 30 laps got better over time, after that there was a slowdown over a period of time right up to when the motor failed with a broken winding. No real heat visually and the highest temp I remember recording was 119.

[MSwiss]

What's gained by running a motor at low speed on the track versus driving it normally (faster) to break it in? I've been doing the latter with FK motors, and they seem to break in (brushes contour to comm) pretty quickly.

 

IMO it can't hurt taking a few easy laps, or even a dozen to 20, to reduce the arcing a bit, getting the brushes a bit more seated, before you run at full speed.

 

That, of course, unless you are on some super-tight time constraints. 

[Bill Seitz]

Water break-in and a few other methods people use provide faster break-in because they cause more arcing which burns the brushes in faster. What I'd normally do with a cobalt, C-can, or D-can motor is a long, low voltage run no-load on power supply. An hour at less than 2 volts is common, with a brief buzz up to 4 volts or so 3 or 4 times during this period. I've done this with the crimped motors, and they do run better afterword, but it's also taking away from run-time on the motor.

 

If you're going to go straight from break-in to racing, this may be the thing to do, but if there's an intention to run some practice or prep laps before the race, that's more wear and can serve as part of the break-in. The main thing is to keep the motor heat from building up with frequent breaks if running on the track, or forced air cooling and low voltage running on power supply. We tend to get impatient running on power supply and jack up the voltage to 3, 4, 6 volts, or use water and get it done in 10 minutes. That's what's hard on the motor and leaves you with an inconsistent or one-race motor.

 

Also remember that brushes are made from highly-compressed powder and are porous. It's not difficult to damage them. They absorb any liquids they're exposed to which may leave residues behind embedded in the brushes which then with heat cause nasty contamination.

[MSwiss]

Run better, as in more constant over longer track times?
 
My first of these motors over the first 20 or 30 laps got better over time, after that there was a slowdown over a period of time right up to when the motor failed with a broken winding. No real heat visually and the highest temp I remember recording was 119.

 

I don't see any connection with not breaking the motor in completely and throwing a wind. That motor was probably just destined to do that.
 
To be honest, compared to all the stuff we did at Koford for better reliability, considering how cheaply/quickly these motors are made, I'm shocked that they don't fail more often, as fast as they are running these days.

[Bill Seitz]

Considering all the slot car motors I've owned since the 60's, including US brands Camen, Koford, ProSlot, and Mura, the Chinese arms seem the most cheaply made and more often abused. I think we've become accustomed to the rigors of the US-made product which is superior in most every way, and we expect to be able to do the same things with them and not fail. Considering the difference in price, the Chinese-made arms actually perform suprisingly well and at a bargain price.

 

As Mike has indicated, a broken wire isn't related to the purpose of break-in. I suppose a thrown comm segment could be related, but I generally think that's from other abuse. I've had well broken in motors lose comm segments, and I think I helped that along with higher voltages. I was experimenting running cars with 14.3 volts, and all of the shed segments occurred during that time.

[Wizard Of Iz]

 

I've been having better luck just breaking in FK motors by logging laps.

The only time I dip or run them on a power supply is at hand-out motor races. Only because of the limited track time.

 

 

The two Enforcer motors that I've bought didn't get any break-in at all before going in the car.  Both felt strong within 10 laps.  Must have some pretty soft brushes.  

 

Someone should ask Josh White what he's doing because the Enforcer motor in his GTP is nearly always ballistic.  

 

 

 

When we had a local track .... I did exactly what you're suggesting back when we ran JK Falcon 7 and Hawk 7 motors.  I'd run 25 laps.  Let the motor cool.  Run 25 more.  Let the motor cool.  Run 25 more.  After 75 laps ..... it seemed like I'd have a pretty good idea whether the motor was going to be decent or not.   Might run 25 more just to be sure.  If it was a two-speeder .... I'd take it out and flatten it with a hammer so I wouldn't be tempted to use it again.  

 

 

Now with no track nearby ... I run the CR102 motors for 10 minutes at 5 volts.  Let it cool for 10 minutes. Then repeat for two or three more cycles.   IF I had a local track, then it would just be running laps.

[breese]

What started this thread was in August Mid-America will be having a Stock Car, LMP, and GTP race over a weekend.

A few weeks ago I did my first Non-Wing car race (GTP) ever at Mike Swiss's Chicagoland raceway.

Was a big learning experience being I have not Raced in 30+ years! Any Slot Cars!

 

On that note, everyone racing at both locations have been very helpful in helping me get back into the hobby.

Mr. Swiss, Michael Ida, Bernard, Rich, Uncle Larry, to name a FEW!

My primary hobby (and where most of my mad monies goes) is my Christmas Display.

 

Learning about the Mid-America race I decided to learn as much as I can, build a car Per-The-Rules, and go from there.

Can someone tell me where these FNRS rules are? I cannot find anything on the car rules per-say.

 

Today was day one of testing.

While I have a few items I need to review and fix (front of chassis picking up glue, rear clearance at .055 when Rules allow .047, etc)

I think break-in and testing went very well.

I made every attempt to document as much as I thought I would need. If someone has something I need to add, please tell me.

The goal is to be competitive... I am NOT expecting to win....

 

Between each run of laps, I documented everything and cooled the enforcer motor with a fan back to room temp.

I ran 13 sets of break-in / tests.

 

While running the set #9 the motor perked up! 

Each set of tests got better and better right up to the last set when it appeared to be at its peek.

After running thru the cool down one more time, I made a Qualifying run. 

3.047! Between the issues I need to fix (listed above) and the track set to a lower then normal voltage (14.3V), its beginning to look like it will be competitive.

 

While I am posting Some of my results, I am leaving some out.

 

Track Info 13.9v 72 Degrees

Car  13/37 Gearing .760 Tires .055 Clearance

 

Chokes (2) Laps Temp Brake Lap Time Laps Total

Chokes Both Full, Laps 10 Temp 92 Brake Off Lap time 4.+++

Chokes Both Full, Laps10 Temp 94 Brake Off Lap time 4.+++ Total Laps 20

Chokes Both Full, Laps10 Temp 95 Brake Off Lap time 4.+++ Total Laps 30

 

Chokes Both 1/2,  Laps 20 Temp 113 Brake Off Lap time 3.8+

 

Chokes Min, Laps 10 Temp 107 Brake Off Lap time 3.223

Chokes Min,  Laps 20 Temp 130 Brake Off Lap time 3.132

 

I also took pictures of the arm and brushes between all runs except for run #2 (forgot).

Here are a few of them in order. 

 

 

Attached Images

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[breese]

I found the FNRS General Rules, last edited May 5, 2021

Anyone know of a newer version?

 

 

Attached Files

•  FNRS Rules.pdf   679.4KB   15 downloads