12 replies to this topic

[Dave_12]

Are  hand wound armatures better than machine wound armatures if so why?

[Dave Crevie]

Because as you are winding the arm, you can be extra vigilant that the winds lay down tight against each other. A machine will sometimes leave a loose turn, or cross over other turns leaving a loop. 

[Bill from NH]

The hand-wound stacks are neater, tighter & have closer to the same length of wire on each stack. Expect hand wound arms to be balanced to a tighter tolerance. Unless you're talking about tagged arms, you might be able get whatever wind & timing you want for hand-wound arms. With production arms, you get what a manufacturer produces,

[Dave_12]

The hand-wound stacks are neater, tighter & have closer to the same length of wire on each stack. Expect hand wound arms to be balanced to a tighter tolerance. Unless you're talking about tagged arms, you might be able get whatever wind & timing you want for hand-wound arms. With production arms, you get what a manufacturer produces,

Bill i am talking about tagged X12 arms .  Group 12 arms are available in both machine wound and hand wound.

[Dave Crevie]

Bill is correct. For classes where hand wound arms are not allowed, it is the luck of the draw, just like with FK motors.  

[Bill Seitz]

Theoretically, the hand wound arms are better as has been discussed. However, a lot depends on the quality of the winding being done. Some race classes require machine-wound armatures; be sure the class you are intending to race in allows hand-wound arms. With Group 12 in particular, this can be an issue. Quality manufacturers of racing armatures produce machine-wound arms that are nearly indistinguishable from a hand-wound arm. These manufacturers may have made proprietary changes to the winding machines to produce such quality. It's part of why a Chinese armature costs $6, and other machine wound armatures cost $50 or more.

[team burrito]

my problem with the hand-wound armature is does it have the correct number of turns? it could be made short, thus a faster armature. what to stop them from producing an illegal armature? today's machine-wound armatures are wound so tight, they look to be done by hand. it's bad enough they allow hand-wound 16d's, do you really need a hand-wound x12? just my opinion.

[MSwiss]

it could be made short, thus a faster armature. what to stop them from producing an illegal armature?

Ruining their reputation?

 

I was Stu's GM for 19 years and I guarantee he/we never short wound a group arm.

 

And I know John Miller from Proslot real well and IMO, he would not do it either.

 

Regardless, if a manufacturer was somehow motivated to make 49T turn G12 arms, they would just create an additional program for the CNC winder.

[zipper]

I remember some European Championships race in the Netherlands where guys were disqualified using 26.5 wire wound (Camen?) G27 arms...

[Mr. M]

There are some pretty good reputable reports that there have been in the past short wound G27 arms, showing up at the Nats Wednesday warmup race for instance. Not every manufacturer, but it has happened. Doesn’t matter hand wound or not.

[Eddie Fleming]

Oh sunny, I remember back in the good old days it was run what you brung and no body was cheating. Now where did I put that Gorsky controller,and that brown track glue?

[Bill Seitz]

I'm acquainted with Camen's Joel Montague. In all the years he manufactured armatures, he took the greatest care in assuring every one of them was spec legal and constructed as equally as possible whether they were machine or hand wound. As noted above, I think you'll find this integrity with any of the serious names in racing armatures.

[MSwiss]

Oh sunny, I remember back in the good old days it was run what you brung and no body was cheating. Now where did I put that Gorsky controller,and that brown track glue?

Back in the day when there was a lot carping on OWH about cheater arms, I would pontificate pretty regularly about the virtues of G7 racing.

 

But that was back when the tracks were slower, the cars were stronger and racers were younger. Lol