22 replies to this topic

[Mad Mark]

Just got these in. scratch built rail with russkit bits and a magnesium (not sure if hand cut or kit?) also with russkit bits. not sure what the motors are. unfortunately they got a little damage from being packaged poorly and where bouncing around with two other cars. spring loaded wheelie bar got bent on the rail but is easy fix.

[Mad Mark]

[Martin]

Very cool Mark, other than clean and get running, what's your plan for these gems?

[Mad Mark]

Very cool Mark, other than clean and get running, what's your plan for these gems?

very light cleaning, repair damage/ straighten chassis’ and mostly leave as is. probably leave melted old russkit tires. I’d like to perhaps add a model car model A body to the magnesium car since it appears it had something on there. guessing the weird brass tubes up front are some sort of body mount.

[Martin]

Bodies or body for sure for the short w/b one would be cool. Love the sprung wheelie bars, nice details.

[Ramcatlarry]

FYI:  Easy identification of the motors is by the armature and the magnet plates.  These are (or) the clones of the Pittman DC 85 series five pole motors.  The clones include the Strombecker and the Ram SEVEN pole big blocks.  All Ram arms were welded commutator (1st to be) and could handle 36 VDC we used for Top Fuel rails.  Ram 857 motors have the thin lamination  for improved magnetic  strength.  Diecast motor parts, magnets, and brush parts all are interchangable.

 

Good to see vintage PROOF of wheelie bars on drop flag rails.  Many here in the Midwest did not use them, but needed them.  I wondered if it was ever done.  I intend to add something to my vintage magnesium Kemtron '57 Corvette.  It is balanced now to keep the flag in the slot, but it will do a full 55ft wheelie on 16VDC now.  I want it to hold the nose up only an inch instead of dragging the bumper on the track.

 

I am still hoping to see my Ram 857 hand cut long magrail with the lavender Bantam body that Was last seen in the display case of Aurora Cycle and Hobby in Aurora, IL about 1965 when I got drafted.....

[don.siegel]

Good info Larry. 

 

I would guess offhand that the top one is a modified Pittman DC85 and the bottom one a Ram DC857. 

 

Pittman actually did an upgraded DC84, with thinner lams, but I don't remember seeing that or hearing about it at the time. They must have made a very belated attempt to compete with Ram, which had taken over the drag market. 

 

Yep, I was wondering about those wheelie bars myself... Does anybody know when they started being widely used on slot dragsters? I had assumed they were banned on the 60s dragsters, but don't know for sure. 

 

Don 

[Dave Crevie]

At the beginning wheelie bars were not allowed on the long dragsters. But as always, some local groups did allow them. IIRC when cobalt motors came in, they were allowed, but I think that currently they are outlawed in the top fuel classes. Here are the Rod and Custom Magazine rules for 1966 that should apply to your cars. Wheelie bars weren't allowed yet;  (you can click on the attachment to enlarge for easier reading)

 

 

 

[Flathead]

Thanks for posting that Dave, thats the first time I have seen that "four wheels only" & "no skids" part of the rules.

[Dave Crevie]

I mis-spoke on these being the 1964 rules, they are actually the 1966 rules. Anyway, I posted the complete rules in the "Slot Drag Racing" section, labeled "1966 R & C drag rules. (pg. 5, I believe) 

[Ramcatlarry]

Those rules look similar to what we used from 1962.  The Aurora Cycle and Hobby set up a crude road course in 1960 and we hung a formica dragstrip from the ceiling over that track.  After a few years they were both upgraded to table level.  The co-owner (Fred Bell) of the shop also raced the real cars at Oswego and other Midwest dragstrips before moving back to the Carolinas.  He also co-owned B&W Speedshop in the area..

[Dave Crevie]

My first dedicated drag car was powered by a big Pittman padlock motor. I took it with me in 1964 on my annual trip to LA. I entered a few drag events, it was real popular then. I don't remember there being anything not powered by a padlock of some sort, except a couple with Globe model boat motors. Gene Husting was already the "hot shoe" then.

[don.siegel]

Dave, 

The model boat motor was also a Pittman, the DC9003. 

 

 

I remember a couple dragsters in the mags had these. They probably weigh about 8 oz each! 

 

The Globe is a good question, however, because it was already being advertised in 1964 and it offered 40K at 12V. But... there was a $10 cost limit on motors in most classes (mainly because of the Globe I would think), and the Globe cost $15! Anybody ever try one of those on 24 or 36 volts? 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your memories Dave & Larry. 

 

Don 

 

 

[Dave Crevie]

I don't recall seeing the Pittman boat motor in any of the dragsters. Maybe too heavy? The Globe was only allowed in the unlimited division where there were no motor restrictions. At least in local events both here and on the West Coast. And they were run on 36 volts, along with the padlocks. I normally only got one run on a highly modified Ram 857 with my own rewound arms. The com would be too tore up to get another good run. We ran hard silver brushes. I don't know how many runs you could get out of the Globe. Once in a while, my local track would turn out the lights so we could see the "fire" coming off the motor. Kinda like the real top fuel rails at night.

[don.siegel]

Yeah, it was definitely too heavy, but was still used in a couple of the early dragsters that were shown in the magazines, probably from 63 or so. I can find a photo if you're interested. 

 

"Lights out" runs sound like fun! 

 

The only Globe I saw at the time was in a dragster somebody was testing on the local strip - I still remember the high-pitched whine of the motor! 

 

Don 

[Dave Crevie]

Only if it is handy. Don't make an expedition out of it. Thanks.

[don.siegel]

It's actually already on SlotBog Dave: http://slotblog.net/...acer-by-rodney/

The issue is Rod & Custom, November 1962. 

 

Good thing it was because I couldn't find it in my index. Here's the page and the car, from the first R&C national electric drags. Pretty amazing the variety of dragsters that showed up, before they began to get standardized within a year or two. I still think there's another car with this motor somewhere, but couldn't find it.  

 

Don 

 

 

[Dave Crevie]

Sho' Nuff. Look how narrow the rear tires are. I believe there were a lot of trial and error uses of motors when slot drag racing first became popular. And like the other slot racing classes, cars fell into certain design parameters as those designs became the most successful. 

 

I got into slot racing too late. I would like to have started a couple years earlier. I didn't start to get serious until the winter of 1963/64, and even then only looked at it as a passtime during crappy weather. In the summer of 1964, my LA cousin talked me into bringing a couple of my cars on my annual visit. He chauffered me around to a bunch of tracks. What a culture shock that was. 

 

One of the cars I brought was this aluminum tube framed dragster. I thought I had invented something new. There were already a few out there. 

 

 

 

Padlock powered of course. Ran just under two seconds. I restored it a few years ago.

[don.siegel]

That looks very nice Dave. Is it soldered, or ?? 

 

With a car that weighed 2 pounds, the narrow tires were probably enough! 

 

Don 

[Mad Mark]

Is a butyrate body acceptable for the mag chassis car or is a plastic model body more korrect?

[Slot Car Rod]

Nice cars Mark.

Posted under "Big Al" almost ten years ago.

 

 

[Dave Crevie]

That looks very nice Dave. Is it soldered, or ?? 

 

With a car that weighed 2 pounds, the narrow tires were probably enough! 

 

Don 

 

It is soldered with aluminum solder. Housetrailers used aluminum wire for the electrical circuits, and aluminum solder was pretty common. Like I said, I  thought I had invented something since no one around Chicago was doing it. When I got to the LA area, there were probably half a dozen dragsters made of aluminum tubing. But still a lot of brass tube lead sleds, assembled with Kemtron cast brass connectors. There were a few made from magnesium strip stock. I had already started a car using aluminum strip stock, but when I found out they were using mag, I abandoned that project to build my magnesium car. ( I recently finished the aluminum car, and wrote about it here in Slotblog, under the title "alumiwinder").

 

That's a big motor, rod. It follows the mantra, "There is no such thing as too much motor, only not enough chassis". 

[Mad Mark]

Did a little work on the magnesium car. got some oxidation off the comm. It runs but does the obligatory horrible squealing due to bad brush alignment I seem to have on every padlock motor Ive had. I was bothered by the melted original russkit German rubber tires so I broke them off and put these model tires on that are the only thing I have at the moment that is appropriate for display. The guide tounge/brass tube was hanging on by a thread so I re soldered that on and put nice new braids on. I removed the rear broken body mounts which I personally think were added later as there is some acid flux corrosion around where its bolted on and not found elsewhere on the chassis. mocked up this chopped 32 butyrate body and looks pretty cool.