Jump to content




Photo

The Last Chassis I Built


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,325 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 08 November 2008 - 09:41 AM

A couple of weeks ago i received a phone call from Bob Green. Bob said he had something he wanted to send me and explained it was the chassis Ernie used in his last slot car race the Elmsford 1984 World Champs. This is the chassis Ernie used to win one of the warm-up races and was 5th in the worlds main. When we stopped racing this hung on the wall of the shop. Bob called Ernie up one day to shoot the breeze and said he was starting to race again and he just needed to get some equipment together. Ernie said he had a good chassis he would send Bob as he no longer needed it. 24 years later it is returned home.

Posted Image
The amazing thing to me is how good a condition it is in. All the hinges work. When I built this I was already seriously in the RC end of the business and probably had not built anything for a year or more. Ernie who had not run for quite awhile wanted to run at Elmsford and begged me to make him something to run. Since I was out of it for awhile I used a lot of Paul Pfieffers ideas in this chassis. I was only going to build one, so it had to be good, so why not steal from the best.

The center is hand cut wit a dremel which was still the SOP at the time.

Posted Image
There are removeable pan weights which are held in place with little pieces of .032 wire that is removable and which is simply held in place with tape. The tape marks are still on the top of the pans. Another interesting feature is that the cross piece floats. The .032 wire simply goes into the .063 tubing on top of the plumber rails.

Honestly I do not remember much about building it. I though you guys might like to see it though. Now I have to locate a trinity black box motor to throw in it...

Thanks Bob!

Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz

5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace





#2 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,198 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 08 November 2008 - 09:46 AM

Tony,

That is one helluva beautiful chassis!, and I know a teensey bit about cutting steel with a Dremel...even more impressive! As for interesting bits...it looks like the front wheels (which are themselves beautifully executed) carry their own sub pans when they articulate. What's that all about? Anyway, just great craftsmanship!

-john
John Havlicek

#3 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 42,299 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Marxifornia

Posted 08 November 2008 - 09:51 AM

Well Tony, you know where to mail it... :laugh2:

Philippe de Lespinay


#4 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,325 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 08 November 2008 - 09:51 AM

John not sure on the split-split pans. That is one of Paul's deals for sure... It was something people were doing, attaching the pans to the wheels. Paul I am pretty sure did it first like pictured. I remember earlier trying it with the full split pan attached to the wheels. No idea exactly why we did it. Maybe to transfer weight off the outside of the corner.

Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz

5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace


#5 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,325 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 08 November 2008 - 09:52 AM

PDL, what do you want to trade for it?

Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz

5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace


#6 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 42,299 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Marxifornia

Posted 08 November 2008 - 09:59 AM

What would you like? :)

Philippe de Lespinay


#7 JerseyJohn

JerseyJohn

    Jersey John

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 08 November 2008 - 11:31 AM

PDL, what do you want to trade for it?

Yoda, give it a tumble and post the picture!!
 

John Chas Molnar

"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God 2007.2023

Retro Chassis Designer-Builder

Jerseyjohnchassis

blog.jpg

 
      

 

 


#8 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,198 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 08 November 2008 - 11:43 AM

Tony...if we're talking regular (not reinforced) Dremel discs...I'd call that center section a 5-disc-er :D Last time I tried to add a slot to a steel chassis, I ruined a perfectly good piece :shok: :blink: That right there (along with the rest of the chassis too) is what separates the men from the boys, beautiful work!

-john
John Havlicek

#9 Prof. Fate

Prof. Fate

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,580 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salt Lake City, UT

Posted 08 November 2008 - 12:26 PM

Hi

thanks for that chassis pic. Memories!

John, you can do that in a single cut by lubing the cut continuously with zero weight sythetic oil! Or spit will do. the discs fail because of heat.

Those were the most fun part of the chassis, the steel cutting.

Fate
Rocky Russo
3/6/48-1/1/12
Requiescat in Pace

#10 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,198 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 08 November 2008 - 03:05 PM

My problem wasn't the discs failing. I'm pretty careful and can cut saw blade steel without cracking discs...it's cutting a lazer-striaght slot like Tony that's the problem :blink: I was able to do a little better job by scribing the steel first with a carbide point and then slotting...still didn't look as nice as Tony's!

-john
John Havlicek

#11 endbelldrive

endbelldrive

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,740 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Witless Protection Program

Posted 08 November 2008 - 04:27 PM

Hi Tony,
Did you use 60/40 solder, soft silver (Sta-brite) solder or a combination of both on the frame? :scratch_one-s_head:
Bob Suzuki
8/19/54-8/?/21
Requiescat in Pace

#12 Prof. Fate

Prof. Fate

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,580 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salt Lake City, UT

Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:40 AM

Hi

John, I always just used a sharpie to draw the line. I am glad, though, that you are getting into this. some fun.

As discussed earlier, It has been the most difficult part of racing from 74 through 04, that bulding just wasn't allowed in programs.

Frustrating.

Fate
Rocky Russo
3/6/48-1/1/12
Requiescat in Pace

#13 Don Weaver

Don Weaver

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,855 posts
  • Joined: 26-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington. SC

Posted 09 November 2008 - 02:11 PM

...it's cutting a lazer-striaght slot like Tony that's the problem


I've found that if I mark the cut line with a Sharpie and then hold a piece of .032 or .040 brass (or steel) on the line as a guide with the disc right up against the edge of the brass I can make pretty straight cuts.

Don Weaver

Don Weaver

​A slot car racer who never grew up!

 

The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
it will starve to death...


#14 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,883 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2008 - 03:19 PM

Not sure how Tony did it but when I started to handcut steel perimeter cars, all long cuts like that were done with the
Dremel in a drill press stand and running the steel on it's edge back & forth along the bed.
Along with straight cuts, by flipping the steel back and forth on the opposite edges, the rails were always symetrical and the same width
on either side.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#15 merkit the grof

merkit the grof

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 35 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Location:La France profonde (Via good old England)

Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:59 PM

Hello Tony

I am sorry to hijack your thread, but I have a very similar chassis and I wondered if someone here could identify it for me.

Posted Image


Posted Image

It was given to me by a neighbour here in England about 15 years ago, I have asked around, but no one seems to know who made it.


Regards


Joel
Joel Thura

Please visit our club web site Southend Slot Racing Club

#16 Slapshot

Slapshot

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 92 posts
  • Joined: 21-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auburn, WA

Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:14 PM

Joel the chassis is very similar to a west coast ISO modified Camen center section RTR chassis that was sold around 84-5. I am guessing an probaly wrong but it might be Mony Orens or some one from that local region as the was ISO chassis hotbed. The front tires when they lifted along with lifting that side pan bite bar pushed the center section down for traction. With the velocity of air going over the body action work more to give bite than to lift the bite bars and pans.

Tony the Herman pans (name may vari according to location) that were attched to the front wheel section were a exact copy of Paul Phifers 83 winning Nats chassis. The "Herman pans" were attached for weight distribution as mentioned but mostly to alter the weight to the center section. The springs were an important part of dampening and also limiters so the "L" axle would not fold back upon thierselves. also the forced the wheels down below the chassis when tilting in the corners. It also took the weight off the pans, plumber rails and placed it on the nose (hindge) of the center section. The springs also worked as a poor mans iso with bite bar interaction (if the bite bar was further forward). This was also the age of what was called the take apart chassis. The rear cross bar usually pulled out of a retaining tube) and the parts, such as each plummer bar plus pans could be dissaembled and altered at will. Some just soldered the bite bar tubes to the plumber rail without the take aart peature but gave it slop. The period correct motor is hard to pegg as there were so many motor changes in those years as cobalts redefined what cans were used. Ernie may have been using his narrowed C can polymer peanut motor or a Trinity square can cobalt motor. Pretty sure it then it was the Trinity Square can. Possibly even a PK/Camen RM640. It was'nt to far after 84 the one piece tripod shuttle or perimiter chassis came about

Mike is correct about cutting Jigs for spring steel. In the NW we used a Jig originating from an idea by a local racer Bob Maclehose. The unit involved using a large Drawer slide to attach the dremel tool to. It was allowed to rock a bit up and down. The bed that held the steel sheet was floated by using a minimum of 4 springs attached to base with adjustable wing bolts and "T" bolts. To that adjustable bed another two bolts clamped a bar that held down the steel sheet. Others had direct threaded beds that could be adjusted but I found the free floating sping adjusted dampend the vibration better while cutting.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

The object was to cut in very light paths which were absolutly straight. I was able with practice to cut a center section with about one to two disks. I could rubber cement a pattern on a steel spring steel plate. The object to go almost to the end of your pattern but not to each edge of you pattern. You would only break one disk if you forced it down too hard in swipes. Mostly the disks got too small. Save those disks for later . Those worked for finishing up or for finnishing a cut edge.

Posted Image

I still use this to this day so that is thirty years of building since making this in 1980-81. I have cut out upward of 50-60 center section or perimiter or steel scale one piece chassis and only screwed up about 5 by this method (cut too thin a rails) . Pehaps Rick or someone can improve on the idea with a machined unit.

Definately cut dry with very light cuts. Yes heat is your disk disinegrator. Cut at a high speed as that can assist th cut cleanlyness the ball bearing Dremel is a must. Absolutly do not wet or lube your cut wet. That weakends the disk and it will either explode or diintergrate quickly.



Raymond Batchelor
Raymond Batchelor

#17 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,325 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 10 November 2008 - 07:58 AM

Hi Tony,
Did you use 60/40 solder, soft silver (Sta-brite) solder or a combination of both on the frame? :scratch_one-s_head:


I always just used and still use just 60/40 solder. I never use silver solder. I think the 60/40 flexes better.

Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz

5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace


#18 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,325 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 10 November 2008 - 08:03 AM

I always used a piece of steel as a straight edge on the cuts. You always would up with lots of these from the area you cut out for the pans. Just ran the disk up and down the piece. I used to be able to cut these with one or 2 disks if like Fate said, keep them oiled and cool.

Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz

5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace


#19 loudspeaker

loudspeaker

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 07
  • Location:Baltimore/New York

Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:30 PM

I always just used and still use just 60/40 solder. I never use silver solder. I think the 60/40 flexes better.

Hi Tony, When you say it flexes better: is this from a performance or durability perspective? Thanks, Sandy
Sandy Gross

#20 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,325 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:02 AM

I think when you solder 2 rails together with silver solder along the length and do the same with 60/40 the 60/40 flexes more. I never built a silver soldered car that handled as well as one with 60/40. Something I got from Bob Emott when I started racing... It could be in my head but it works for me.

Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz

5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace


#21 Foamy

Foamy

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,583 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali, baby!

Posted 14 November 2008 - 04:16 PM

I think when you solder 2 rails together with silver solder along the length and do the same with 60/40 the 60/40 flexes more. I never built a silver soldered car that handled as well as one with 60/40. Something I got from Bob Emott when I started racing... It could be in my head but it works for me.


60/40 cars were as good as they were going to get right out of the box. A silver solder car needed to be raced about 6 times before the flex would come in. In the days of "The Trick Chassis Of The Week", you needed to 60/40 them.


P, I gotta Black Box Motor in good shape if you need it. I don't remember what it has for an arm, it needs to be tracked down.
Dennis Hill
 
"Just once I want my life to be like an '80s movie,
preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason."

#22 Phil Irvin

Phil Irvin

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,764 posts
  • Joined: 21-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wesley Chapel, FL

Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:07 PM

:dash2:

I asked something along the same lines a while ago.

10 years ago I got the 3% silver in .031 size in a 3 lb. roll and have been using it for everything but building chassis cause I havent built a chassis in YEARS..... I have now built 2 retro chassis and can see the difference in the solder look & flow along a solder joint. The silver is much stronger in that I have not spun a pinion since using it and have noted that piano wire will bend long before the solder joint breaks. Now I know the difference! I have noted that my new double wire frame is not as flexable as the old anglewinder double wire frames. :unsure: To keep the silver. I guess I'll go smaller wire and give it a try..

mmmmmm
PHIL :rolleyes:

#23 Craig

Craig

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,691 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:S Lake Tahoe, CA

Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:34 PM

Holy cow, It's going to take 10 to 12 races for my cars to come in as I use jewelers silver solder on my rides. I've been told it's right around 12% silver bearing.

I guess that explains why I need so much horse power in my irons to get this stuff to flow! :laugh2:
Craig Correia
11/27/57-8/12/22
Requiescat in Pace

#24 Phil Irvin

Phil Irvin

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,764 posts
  • Joined: 21-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wesley Chapel, FL

Posted 14 November 2008 - 08:33 PM

I guess that explains why I need so much horse power in my irons to get this stuff to flow! :laugh2:
[/quote]


Yeah... Now that you say something. I have noticed that I have had to turn the dial higher. I lost my UNGER after 10 years 8 months ago......Just mite be a reason why and why my new one has problems where the pins go threw to hold the tip to the heater. :(

OL'PHRTS RACIN TEAM
PHIL

#25 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,243 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 15 November 2008 - 10:55 AM

Should I assume that you do NOT use acid flux withe the 60/40 solder? I have a tube of 60/40 that has a rosin core and I also have a tin of the paste flux.
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.





Electric Dreams Online Shop