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Blow-molding slot car bodies


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#1 Gene/ZR1

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:02 PM

TSR,

Do you have any info on blow-molding slot car bodies? Or could you do a thread on them?

Very interesting method of making a body.

Thanks.

Eldon Adams AKA Gene/ZR1
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#2 stevefzr

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 09:38 PM

TSR
Do you have any info. on Blow Mold Slot Car Bodies?


Bodies? Plural? The only one I know of is the MPC Manta-Ray. I'm interested to know what others there were.

Regards,

Steve C
Stephen Corneille

#3 stoo23

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:50 AM

Gee,..one would have to surmise that blow molding, would Not be Cheap !!

Plus I am unsure whether one could use Poly-carbonate materials in a Blow Mold process.

Were Many Bodies actually Made this way ??
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#4 endbelldrive

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:15 AM

I've seen the Tarantula DMX and Mako Shark that were blow molded by a company called Detail Models. A little look see at the 1966 1/2 Auto World catalogue shows them on the top right hand corner of this page at Steve Okeefe's website.
Link to: The Independent Scratchbuilder - 1966 1/2 Auto World Catalogue - page 111
Bob Suzuki

#5 slotbaker

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:24 AM

Stoo,
Yep, wouldn't be cheap, but blow moulding can mould Polycarbonate (Lexan), Polypropylene, Polyurethane, Polystyrene, Polyethylene, PETG, plus others.

As an example, the comon moulded babybottles are usually made with Polycarb.

Steve, I'm surprised that the Manta Ray was blow moulded. I've got one here that is thinner around the edges, plus at each end, than it is on top. Blow Moulding usually makes the edges at each end of the moulding thicker than the middle. This is due to where the mould reduces in size and shuts off to pinch the tube of plastic prior to air being blown in. Of course, my example may not be a genuine either, so I'm interested to know.

Doc :huh:

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#6 slotbaker

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:35 AM

I've seen the Tarantula DMX and Mako Shark that were blow molded by a company called Detail Models. A little look see at the 1966 1/2 Auto World catalogue shows them on the top right hand corner of this page at Steve Okeefe's website.
Link to: The Independent Scratchbuilder - 1966 1/2 Auto World Catalogue - page 111

Bob,
That article appears to be "Injection" moulded bodies.

This is quite different to Blow Moulding (Molding).

Blow Moulding is the process that makes the plastic soda bottle. You can have reasonable detail on the outside, but only wall thickness flow shape on the inside.

Injection mouldings are the same as the model kits where good detail can be made on both inside/outside of the part.

The parts that you have seen may have been clear (polycarb, acrylic, or ?) material injection moulded. The same as the clear parts in model kits.
:unsure:

Steve King


#7 vsrn

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:55 AM

Bob,
That article appears to be "Injection" moulded bodies.

This is quite different to Blow Moulding (Molding).

Blow Moulding is the process that makes the plastic soda bottle. You can have reasonable detail on the outside, but only wall thickness flow shape on the inside.

Injection mouldings are the same as the model kits where good detail can be made on both inside/outside of the part.

The parts that you have seen may have been clear (polycarb, acrylic, or ?) material injection moulded. The same as the clear parts in model kits.
:unsure:


Gents -
I think the process used for these bodies was quite different than how plastic soda bottles are made.

I worked in a plant where bottles were blow molded. It involves a 2 part female mold. The halves open, a tube of hot plastic is extruded and hangs down between the molds. The 2 halves close, and air pressure is applied at the top of the plastic, and that blows the plastic into the shape of the bottle.

The blow molded slot bodies were made with air pressure instead of vacuum, forcing the plastic down into a female mold
rather than over the more traditional male mold.

vsrn

#8 endbelldrive

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:38 AM

Here are some shots of Detail Models' 1/32 Iso-Grifo courtesy of "manitouguy".over at SlotForum. :friends: The rest of the thread can be found here. :good:

Posted Image

Posted Image
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#9 TSR

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:54 AM

Steve, I'm surprised that the Manta Ray was blow molded.

It was, and Greg is 100% correct in his description of the process.
Detail Models also made a 1/32 scale Lola T70 and a 1/24 scale McLaren-Elva. :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#10 Tex

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:41 AM

Seein' that Iso-Grifo with it's molded in "bottom" and everything made me realize I had what must have been a blow-molded Gull-Wing Mercedes back when I was probably 12-years old. I never did anything with the body; probably chunked it with the rest of my stuff when I was about 14 or so.
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#11 tonyp

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:52 AM

PDL is this also the company that made a Thingie called the Tarantula? Please do not ask how I know about that body. LOL..

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#12 slotbaker

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:27 PM

It was, and Greg is 100% correct in his description of the process.

Fair enough, as mentioned, my Manta Ray may not be original.
Any idea what material the Manta Ray was blow moulded in??

And yep, Greg is 100% correct with his description of the process.

That Iso-Griffo is a great body.
:)

Steve King


#13 TSR

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:40 PM

The MPC Manta Ray was indeed blow molded from white or gray styrene, then painted in gold/silver or metallic red/silver. They also made a few green ones, tough to find.

Detail Models made the Tarantula, a Mako Shark and a McLaren-Elva in the 1/24 scale, a Lola T70 and the ISO Grifo in the 1/32 scale. The Mako Shark body was used by Unique on their very rare slot car model, of which only one boxed example appears to have survived so far.
No other Detail Models bodies were used on known cars or kits. I believe that no other slot car bodies were blow molded.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#14 gascarnut

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:12 PM

I guess there's a difference between blow molding, where the finished product is like a bottle with plastic all around, and forming into a female mold rather than over a male mold?

Both will put the detail on the outside of the plastic, but using a female mold still uses vacuum rather than pressure, right?

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#15 TSR

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:20 PM

Indeed, but I do not know of a single slot car company that used female molds for forming bodies... because it would not be possible to form undercuts too easily I guess.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#16 Horsepower

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:52 PM

I have the Detail Models 1/32nd Lola and one of the interesting things about blow molding is the body comes out nearly as hard as styrene. At least, the one I have is....... :mellow:
Gary Stelter

#17 Howmet TX

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 03:28 AM

I've done a few 'female' vacforms. The problems with undercuts can be resolved in precisely the same way as with a male mould, using multi-part or flexible moulds. The main difficulties I found are that female moulds are necessarily much larger- which is a significant one for my little home-made vacformer- and the positioning of vent holes.
There have to be strategically placed vent holes in the vac mould in order to draw the sheet down into low areas where trapped air would otherwise form bubbles. On a male mould, these can be placed discreetly on panel lines and in vents and intakes. On a female mould, they have to be on the high, exposed parts of the finished shell- roofs, wheel fenders etc.

This is what intrigues me about this interesting thread- how does the entrapped air escape in this blow-moulding process? I can't see any evidence of vent holes in the Iso Grifo shell. Is the whole process carried out in a vacuum? If so, this has to be an industrial scale installation!

In practice, at least in my amateur workshop, I find the detail finish of a conventional male mould is as good as you get with the more problematic female mould, which is still a little blurry, but just 'inside out'. The only use I have for it now is moulding screens and minor parts for use in resin shells and repros, where they have to fit flush with the exterior surface of the shell. Using a male mould you get a slightly oversized screen.

John Dilworth


#18 TSR

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 10:13 AM

John,
From what I have seen in bottle making, it is just a puff of compressed air, then as the material cools on the mold, the air is let out the same way it came in. There are tiny air holes in the bodies.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#19 BWA

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:56 PM

Indeed, but I do not know of a single slot car company that used female molds for forming bodies

Eau contrair my good doktooor. ALL the Russkit Styrene early kit bodies in both 1/32 and 1/24 scale were indeed reverse vac formed into female molds.

The Porsche RSK, Lotus 25, Lister Jag etc were all done this way. ;)

OK, what did I win?????? :rolleyes:

Next question, just ask me anything Eh! :laugh2:

Also, I believe the blow molded 1/24 McLaren was the first MKI organ pipe thingy, and, not an Elva(unless of course they were the same????). I have one, still uncut.
Al Penrose BWA (Batchelor Without Arts, Eh!)

#20 TSR

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:13 PM

Indeed. I was thinking about clear plastic bodies and completely forgot about the Russkit styrene jobs! :laugh2:
You win nothing but I slap myself silly to get me yet another concussion...

The Detail Models McLaren-Elva is not the "organ-pipe thingie", that one was the ex-Zerex/Penske Cooper-Olds that Bruce purchased from John Mecom and raced until the new McLaren MK1, AKA McLaren-Elva because they were produced by the Elva/Trojan company, came out. The "organ-pipe" car was dark green with a white, then silver stripe, while the MK1 driven by Bruce was black with a silver stripe and an entirely different animal altogether.

Lancer made a body of the original 1962 Zerex-Cooper (to be painted in red as a center-cockpit car), then they made the widened cockpit 1963 version with the Climax engine (metallic blue and white), then the 1964 Cooper-Olds (green). All and the same car, basically a re-bodied 1961 Cooper T53 F1 car.
Lancer and Russkit made the McLaren MK1 but it is seemingly always called "McLaren-Elva" on the body tags.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#21 ravajack

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:00 AM

Bodies? Plural? The only one I know of is the MPC Manta-Ray. I'm interested to know what others there were.

Detail Models made the Tarantula, a Mako Shark and a McLaren-Elva in the 1/24 scale, a Lola T70 and the ISO Grifo in the 1/32 scale. The Mako Shark body was used by Unique on their very rare slot car model, of which only one boxed example appears to have survived so far.
No other Detail Models bodies were used on known cars or kits. I believe that no other slot car bodies were blow molded.


Ads from late 1965. A complete (?) line of Detail Models bodies:
Four in 1/32 (Chaparral, Hussein, Iso Grifo, Lola) and four in 1/24 (Alfa, Mako, Elva, Tarantula).

MC&T october 1965:
Posted Image

MC&T november 1965:
Posted Image

MC&T december 1965:
Posted Image
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#22 TSR

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:23 AM

I have never seen the Hussein and Chaparral in the 1/32 scale and am not so sure they were ever issued... anyone seen them? :blink:

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#23 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:47 PM

I have one of the Detail Models injection-blow molded T 70s and, for comparison, a traditional vac-form example (? Dubro). The injection blow mold has slightly better surface detail than the vac-form but nothing like a typical injection-molded hard body. I don't know if this reflects the quality of the mold or a limitation of the ability of the process to capture fine surface detail.

EM
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#24 Prof. Fate

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 11:49 AM

Hi

Philippe, I did have one of the Husseins in the day. I still have a T70 somewhere unpainted.

I ran the crap out of the Hussein, but it was too heavy to compete with my normal vac club cars. It was just for amusement.

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#25 TSR

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 12:13 PM

Someone shows me a Hussein and a Chaparral and I will believe it.
I have seen all the others and actually there is at least one of each at the LASCM.
The most commonly found are the 1/32 scale T70 and the 1/24 scale McLaren-Elva.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#26 gascarnut

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 03:30 PM

I can confirm that the Hussein exists, I had one in my hand at the weekend.

I was wondering who made them. The one I saw has just the front end of the underside remianing, but it is obvious that it was blow-molded.

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#27 TSR

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 04:11 PM

Cool! Thanks Dennis!
Now we need to find a good example for the museum's collection and find out if the Chaparral also existed... :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#28 tonyp

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 04:16 PM

I have to confess father PDL. I actually had one of those Tarantula bodies on my Cox car for awhile. I am so ashamed!

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#29 macwest

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 03:06 AM

Cool! Thanks Dennis!
Now we need to find a good example for the museum's collection and find out if the Chaparral also existed... :)


I went digging and have all four 1/32 so I can confirm they exist Hussain, iso griffith, chaparral, and lola. Posted Image

#30 Jaak

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:27 AM

Hi all,

Just wondering am i right to assume this is a Du-bro Hussein?
supposedly 1:32? i find it to big to be 1:32 but that could be me :unsure:

Posted Image


Any info will be very appreciated.

Cheers,
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#31 TSR

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:56 AM

Could be a Select... detail is too crisp for a Du-Bro. :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#32 gascarnut

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 09:57 AM

Could be a Select... detail is too crisp for a Du-Bro. :)


Copied from Slot Forum:

Gentlemen,
I did a bit of research in the LASCM vault and was able to put together the following list (I will post pictures later):

Select bodies were all sold with a Revell injected 3-piece driver, white plastic card for "cockpit" and mounting/painting instructions.

Select Innovations PO box 5, La Crescenta CA 91014
Same mailing address as VECO and Auto-Hobbies, PROVING the connection between Bill Sippel and Select

1/24 Scale
# 154 Chaparral 2D Nurburgring copy of Cox
# 155 Chaparral 2E w/ wing and tips
# 157 Lola T70 MKIIIB coupe
# 158 Chaparral 2Fcoupe

1/32 Scale
# 101 Ferrari 330P3
# 104 McLaren MK2
# 106 Chaparral 2D Daytona
# 107 Chaparral 2D Le Mans 1966
# 108 Lola T70 MK2 sports
# 109 Lotus 40 sports
# 110 Porsche 906 "Carrera 6" coupe
# 111 Shelby Cobra 427P roadster
# 113 Ford "J" coupe
# 115 Chaparral 2E w/ wing
# 116 PAM-Chevy Group 7
# 117 Lola MK3 coupe
# 118 Chaparral 2F coupe
# 119 Elfin 400 Group 7
# 120 Ford MK4 coupe
# 121 McLaren MK3 w/ wing
# 122 '68 Camaro copy of Revell?
# 123 Mustang fastback modified (Mach 1 or Shelby)

Unknown numbers for loose bodies in the museum:

McLaren MK6
Pontiac Firebird
California Sportsman
Chaparral 2 1965 Riverside w/fins and louvers.
BRM H16

Any help to obtain more information about the missing numbers is greatly welcome.
Regards,

Philippe


So, this is not a Select body.

Dennis Samson
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#33 Jaak

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 10:07 AM

Thanks Philippe,

I originally thought it was a lancer, and it says the Du-bro is 1:32.
while the body i have is more in the region of 1:24 unless the Hussein was a really big race car in 1:1.

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#34 don.siegel

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 10:08 AM

Hmm, Jaak, if it's 1/24 that would make the wheelbase around 10 cm, if I'm calculating right (3-3/4"+).

Besides the Detail Hussein, the only other one I know is a nice Lancer job in 1/24... Not at home right now to check, but you should be able to figure out from wheelbase if it's 1/32 or 1/24. (1/32 would be more like 7.5 - 8 cm)

Don

#35 Howmet TX

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 10:24 AM

I have a decent-looking 1/24 Hussein clear butyrate body which has the round air intake moulded into the cockpit area, presumably so that you can cut it out and choose whether or not to mount it on the rear deck.
Any suggestions who may have produced it?

John Dilworth


#36 Jaak

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 10:30 AM

Hey Dennis,

I missed your post, thanks for the reply.
Now i know it is not a select or Du-bro.


Hi Don,

Mine is somewhere between Switzerland and Howmet :D
So maybe Howmet can measure it.

Howmet,

That again sounds like another model then mine, although mine is also from butyrate i think.
You will see when it arrives at you place.

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#37 TSR

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 11:38 AM

So, this is not a Select body.

Note that there are missing numbers there... that is why I was asking for help. We have had more numbers since and have been able to find more bodies.

Now if it is not a 1/32 scale body and really a 1/24th, there are several possibilities. Lancer, Du-Bro, Pactra, Precision, Climax, plus possible British issues by GT Models, Titan...???
I am not able to check for this for at least a week because the best is to compare to what we have at the LASCM.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#38 Prof. Fate

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:17 PM

Hi

Check the flanges on the sides. If they are designed to be folded under the body with, usually, molded in marks. this might be a late Sipple body. That tuck under flange was designed because bill and Schliecher at the time (and ron knight) all preferred to mount vacs that way.

I think I have bodies like that in both scales, and should go look unless Philippe solves it sooner.

Fate
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#39 Jaak

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 01:01 PM

Ah and so the plot thickens :blink:

Was there a brand that did not produce this Hussein :rolleyes:

Philippe,

I wish i had some kind of number of it.
I bought this from a guy in Geneva, i think Don or Allan pointed him out to me as i was searching for the Honda body from Lancer.
He was selling old slot car shop stock on E-Bay...i bought this one and a 'mint in box' Lancer Honda,
and some Pactra 1:24 Competition Rear tire & wheel assy.cut...No 460 1,95$PR still packed on a card (still have them unopened)

Fate,

Looking at the picture i do not think it is a late model Sipple body,
because it does not seem to have the flanges on the sides with are designed to be folded under the body.
can not remember them either.

Well it seems it can be narrowed down a bit.....
It's not a Du-bro,
and someone on Slotforum (Phil Kalbfell) informed me that it most likely is not a Lancer as it did not have the vacuum cleaner molded in.
And it's not a Detail model body as those where injection blow molded (unless they also did vacforms of this car)

OK well it's not a Du-bro then...or is it :D

I guess time will tell, thanks guys for thinking along :ok:

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#40 Horsepower

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 01:13 PM

Hi

Check the flanges on the sides. If they are designed to be folded under the body with, usually, molded in marks. this might be a late Sipple body. That tuck under flange was designed because bill and Schliecher at the time (and ron knight) all preferred to mount vacs that way.

I think I have bodies like that in both scales, and should go look unless Philippe solves it sooner.

Fate

Bill Sipple marketed bodies? I would have thought they would only have been fiberglass, so THAT'S another new bit of info! :D :shok:
Gary Stelter

#41 don.siegel

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 04:03 PM

Bill Sipple marketed bodies? I would have thought they would only have been fiberglass, so THAT'S another new bit of info! :D :shok:


Those are the Auto Hobbies bodies Gary, which were also in vac-form models.

I just looked at my Lancer Hussein, and it looks very similar to this one; it's not the Lancer with the air intake molded in the cockpit - and I know I've seen that one not too long ago, maybe in a thread on here, but can't remember who did it!

Don

#42 TSR

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:03 PM

Both Select and Auto-Hobbies were produced from the same company under the VECO banner. Sippel was involved with both.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#43 Prof. Fate

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 12:21 PM

Hi

Which is why I use "sipple"...the guy did a lot of stuff under various lables, and, frankly I was more aware of sipple than rememering the names.

Part of the confusion is Schleicher battling at me about the "proper" way to mount bodies.

I am pretty sure that in 1/32 Sipple did the Hussein with the Nascar air cleaner, and the "clean" lid. And thinking about it, I THINK I have a Dubro with the clean top. In the day I really liked the looks of the Lola T70 and how that morphed into the Hussein. To me, the hussein looked like nothing so much as the sorts of things the kids I knew in school would sketch out as a "sports car".

Anyway, I have a 36d car with the Hussein body and no Nascar aircleaner but a clean deck in 1/24. Survivor. It was never quite competitive in that inline configuration. The more successful sidewinder got raced and beat a lot and needs serious work. But I am not sure who made the body!

Fate
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#44 Jaak

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 02:36 AM

The Hussein has safely arrived at Howmet's, no thanks to the Swiss post-snail.

I send him a PM maybe he can see some things that can clarify who the maker is :)
ohw and my excuse to Gene for seriously kidnapping his thread :unsure: sorry.

Cheers,
Jaak

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#45 macwest

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 04:19 PM

Copied from Slot Forum:

Gentlemen,
I did a bit of research in the LASCM vault and was able to put together the following list (I will post pictures later):

Select bodies were all sold with a Revell injected 3-piece driver, white plastic card for "cockpit" and mounting/painting instructions.

Select Innovations PO box 5, La Crescenta CA 91014
Same mailing address as VECO and Auto-Hobbies, PROVING the connection between Bill Sippel and Select

1/24 Scale
# 154 Chaparral 2D Nurburgring copy of Cox
# 155 Chaparral 2E w/ wing and tips
# 157 Lola T70 MKIIIB coupe
# 158 Chaparral 2Fcoupe

1/32 Scale
# 101 Ferrari 330P3
# 104 McLaren MK2
# 106 Chaparral 2D Daytona
# 107 Chaparral 2D Le Mans 1966
# 108 Lola T70 MK2 sports
# 109 Lotus 40 sports
# 110 Porsche 906 "Carrera 6" coupe
# 111 Shelby Cobra 427P roadster
# 113 Ford "J" coupe
# 115 Chaparral 2E w/ wing
# 116 PAM-Chevy Group 7
# 117 Lola MK3 coupe
# 118 Chaparral 2F coupe
# 119 Elfin 400 Group 7
# 120 Ford MK4 coupe
# 121 McLaren MK3 w/ wing
# 122 '68 Camaro copy of Revell?
# 123 Mustang fastback modified (Mach 1 or Shelby)

Unknown numbers for loose bodies in the museum:

McLaren MK6
Pontiac Firebird
California Sportsman
Chaparral 2 1965 Riverside w/fins and louvers.
BRM H16

Any help to obtain more information about the missing numbers is greatly welcome.
Regards,

Philippe


So, this is not a Select body.


Phillipe

I can back those up as being auto hobbies numbers I have number of those molds. I aquired them a few years back from oscars son when he placed the molds on EBAY. I will check to see what other numbers I can get for you.

Scott

#46 macwest

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:02 AM

Philippe,

I can confirm 104, 115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123

The ford J mold I have is marked 112
114 chap 2C Riverside

1/24 scale
AH955B Masserati 450

When I get a chance I will dig through my lexan bodies later. The fiberglass bodies are labled CP-X

Scott

#47 Mike Wahrlich

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:36 PM

Hello all...

I bought a couple of vintage slotcars... and I found two blow mold bodies...

Posted Image

I have never seen this kind of stuff... so i googled... and found this thread!

Thank You for this... and for the ads!

Even if this is not what i am collecting... because i collect vintage Carrera Slotcars... it is very interesting for me to find out more about the other vintage slot cars that came with this bodies...

I hope it is ok if I post some questions about the stuff I bought...

Thank you...

Greeting from Germany

Mike...

my Carrera Slotcar Fan-Page: www.carrerarennbahn.de
Mike...

My German Carrera fanpage

#48 Gary Bluestone

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:05 PM

I am pretty sure it is OK to post questions. It is Best to find the closest appropriate sub forum. We all ask questions and we all try to find the answers. I am guessing you have Identified those bodies from the tread, but anyway to me they look like the "Detail Models Inc." 1/32 series. Regardless of the size ,this is probably the appropriate thread.

#49 Gary Bluestone

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:13 PM

I,m not sure if this is the correct way to direct this thread back to another but just to bring these topics together , here is some discussion about Russkit Superleggera Bodies


http://slotblog.net/...old#entry131423

#50 TSR

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:45 PM

Mike,
Both your bodies are by the American company Detail Models. They are an Iso Grifo and a Cooper-Hussein. Detail Models produced such bodies in both the 1/24 and 1/32 scale.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"






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