26 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

I found these magnets among a bunch of stuff I was given. I don't know what they are (they fit a 16D can)...Champion? Even more importantly, are they any good? I'm starting another motor and if these are an "upgrade" from the Mabuchi magnets, I would maybe use them. They have a center groove for the spring retainer shown. TIA

-john



-john

[dc-65x]

Hi John,

Those are French (Tradeship) magnets circa 1966. They are mentioned in one of the R&C race reports.

Rick

[TSR]

Indeed, and there are also some with the slot on the OUTSIDE of them, not sure why or who made them but I found them inside old Steube motors while restoring them.

[havlicek]

Thanks guys...but are they any good...or some sort of an upgrade from the Mabuchis? It seems they're correct for the period, so that's something I'm looking at doing a "maximum Mabuchi" so I need some pretty good magnets.

-john

[dc-65x]

John,

It depends on what year you want your motor to represent. For 1966 it would probably be the French or Hemi magnets. For 1967 you could use ARCO's with the chrome one piece shim. For 1968 you could also use the Mura-Versatec's in the semi can.

[havlicek]

Hi Rick...and THANKS for all the great information. I'm not thinking of any particular year...just what could have been done using parts from around the general time. I have a nice arm and a Tradeship com, a Tradeship endbell and a 16D can that I rescued and spruced-up with some elbow grease. The arm will probably be a #28, but I might go for the gusto and do a #26. That's whyt I need to find a balance between a magnet and wind. I know the Arcos and especially the Versatecs will hold up well with a hotter wind, but these are something I've never played with before.

-john

[TSR]

John,
I think that those magnets WERE a vast improvement over the frankly awful stock Mabuchi FT16 mags. But when Igarashi showed up with their Hemi motors (Pactra, Strombecker...), the Tradeship mags were instantly made obsolete, and when Champion issued their first molded ARCO (and not the early "broken" magnets used in the first Champion "507" and Mura motors including the Dynamic Green Hornet), the game was over, even Mura with their Magnum 44 and 88 could not compete. ARCO's in their various forms dominated the scene until the discovery in the early 1980's by the pros of... cobalt.

[havlicek]

Hi Philippe and thanks also for the great information. I'm thinking that if these are a big improvement over the garbage Mabuchis, and I want to do a "best motor " using period stuff (what could have been run in those days without having a time machine )...maybe these will be fine with a zap and I should stick with a #28. I do have some modern D can magnets that seem quite strong, but if they're stronger than say the Arcos (?), that would be kind of a "cheat".

-john

[TSR]

I think that if you take a set of stock Parma 16D mags and stick them in the old Mabuchi can, you will have everything you need.
Received the arm today, looks great. Many thanks.

[Jairus]

That's what I do when I am building a vintage motor from 1966 or 67... just stick in a set of Parma 16D magnets and be done with it. Searching for a set of vintage magnets, cleaning them up and having them zapped is just too much work.

Only problem is getting them into the can and shimmed up correctly. The magnets have these funky rounded edges which resist centering using old vintage springs. The Parma clips are too tight and never line up with the holes correctly either.
Best bet is to glue them in with a dowel in place of the arm and hope that it is centered.
(Sigh... ) Such low tech answers. Sorry John.

[havlicek]

Thanks again guys...I think I'll just do what Philippe said since they're nice and strong and maybe (?) around what was the best of the general period. Just to be sure, I'll stick with a #28 wind...even though the anarchist in me wants to do the full monty and go to a 26. Just for this motor, I'd like it to be pretty much "period correct".

Jairus, if you sand an accute angle to the edges of the D can magnets you can make them sit nicely with a top and bottom clip without even gluing them. Onward!

-john

[havlicek]

Received the arm today, looks great. Many thanks

You're (of course) quite welcome Philippe as it was all my pleasure

-john

[dc-65x]

.........Just for this motor, I'd like it to be pretty much "period correct".
-john

Mid-America Raceway has the real deal vintage Mura semi can and magnets that were used in '68 for $19.99:

Mura Can in a Can magnet shim w/ magnets

They also have the Champion one piece shim (although not the early chrome version) that would allow you to use modern C-can magnets.

Here is an original Lenz motor with the Mura Magnets and shim:



Here's one apart.........

[havlicek]

Hi Rick and thanks for all the ideas that are banging around in my head right about now Would you know if those Mura magnets that come with the "can-in-a-can" shim setup are better/worse/the same as the Tradeship ones I already have? If they are similar in strength, it seems as though I might as well use the Tradeship ones (that are approximatley from the same period...no?).

-john

[Bob Campbell]

Slightly off topic, but I remember running magnets that were called "white dots". Were these an Arco magnet.

I also remember other colored dots on the magnets (like blue??).

Thanks,

Bob C.

[dc-65x]

Hey John,

The Tradeship magnets are just a bit better than Mabuchi. The Mura are WAY better. The Mura are circa 1968 and the Tradeship are from 1966. Worlds apart...........

[Darkron9]

Slightly off topic, but I remember running magnets that were called "white dots". Were these an Arco magnet.

I also remember other colored dots on the magnets (like blue??).

Thanks,

Bob C.

They were sold by Champion during the early to late 70's, with the Blue Dots having come out earlier than the White Dots. Foamy is a wealth of knowledge on these Champion magnets.

[havlicek]

Hey John,

The Tradeship magnets are just a bit better than Mabuchi. The Mura are WAY better. The Mura are circa 1968 and the Tradeship are from 1966. Worlds apart...........

Bingo Rick...then the Muras are it. I'll stick those tradeship magnets in a box somewhere for ...er...whatever. Thanks again

-john

[Horsepower]

Hi John! Not to throw any more opinions in here, but a set of Mura 44's would be period correct and they are rated Indox 3. Maybe PdL could chime in on those? They were used on Mura double winds and found to be competitive against the Steube cans. (MCS 07/67 Speed and Tech column)

[havlicek]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the information and I'll see if I can locate some of those somewhere. Meanwhile if you or Rock or anyone else is looking in, I got some of the can-in-a-can setups and while they fit the Mabuchi can really nicely, the fit for the magnets in the shims is odd. There are both magnet retainer tabs as well as magnet clips inside of those and the magnets seem to fit sort of precariously. Can someone clarify how these are assembled. They came with the magnets held in directly by the retainer tabs and the magnet springs seemingly holding the retainer tabs. All of this results in a not super-precise alignment of the magnets vis-a-vis the arm. What's up?

-john

[dc-65x]

John,

See the two little tab on the top and bottom of the shim?



They get bent and sort of formed up against the magnets to hold them centered and in place. Sometimes you need to GENTLY pry the tabs open a bit to get the magnets started in the shim. Then with the shim and magnets in the can stick a small screwdriver in there and force the tabs tight against the magnets.

Another method to get the magnets seated in the shim is to GENTLY pull apart the two halves of the shim just enough to get the magnets started behind the tabs. Then CAREFULLY squeeze the shim closed enough to get it started into the can. Then squeeze and push the shim and magnets into the can. I've even used a little 1 1/2" vise to squeeze the things together but things can go bad quickly if you goof .

Most often magnet clips are also inserted. These methods work for me, the first being the safest IMHO. Sometimes I'll use a combination of all the above. Maybe someone else can share their method.

Hmmmmmmmmm, I just re-read your post and it sounds like you bought the preassembled semi can and magnets in the Dynamic package? That's the way to go. You don't need to do what I've described above. That's only if you get the parts seperately. You should be good to go. Oh, and this is vintage, nobody said it was precise

Rick

[havlicek]

Hi Rick and once again, thanks for the information. Yes...I got the semi can, but the magnets were half in and half out of their final position, kinda just stuffed in there. Because the height of the magnets is much less than the height of the semi can, the whole deal has to sit about perfectly for the magnets to be even "pretty good". If either magnet rocks a bit, the whole geometry is whacked. After some tweaking and fiddling, I got them pretty good While I got you, I found a couple of pairs of post protectors, but of course now the Mabuchi springs don't fit the posts properly Is there a source for good springs for these things? I did have some new (er) springs I had used in the past and don't know what they were, but the brush leg on new Mura springs is a bit too short. They just barely reach into the brush groove

-john

[dc-65x]

I've been using modern Champion light and medium springs and Camen light and regular springs. These are the Camen:



Here are the Champion:

[havlicek]

Hi Rick,

I'll try some of each and see what's what (I assume these shouldn't be dbl. overhead). Thanks again...again...again

-john

[dc-65x]

Yup, there double overhead. You get to buy 2 pair to get one pair you can use