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2009-10 Ohio Valley race schedule


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#1 Pappy

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:32 PM

2009/2010 Ohio Valley Race Schedule

Sept. 19, 2009 - Tom Thumb Hobbies (Columbus, OH)

Oct. 10, 2009 - Roadster Raceway (Springfield, OH - Malcolm's house) This is a schedule change due to conflicting with the Sano

Nov. 14, 2009 - Fast Eddie's (Richmond, IN)

Dec. 12, 2009 - T/R's Motorplex (Miamisburg, OH)

Jan. 9, 2010 - T/R's Motorplex (Miamisburg, OH)

Jan. 30, 2010 - Tom Thumb Hobbies (Columbus, OH) This race has been moved up a week to accomodate our friends on the east coast with a scheduling problem
March 2010 - R4 at Tom Thumb Hobbies

April 17, 2010 - Fast Eddie's (Richmond, IN)

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses





#2 Garry

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 06:17 AM

Butch,
Thank you for doing a superb job managing the OVR.
Have we decided which classes will be on the schedule? :laugh2:
Garry Haworth
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#3 Pappy

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 06:37 AM

Thanks Garry. Not yet on the classes but a decision will be made soon. Also considering a concours event, maybe doing away with the Masters and Rookie labels, prizes and trophies.

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#4 Josh Crutchfield

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:21 PM

What classes are being considered?
I feel that a lot of the racers enjoy receiving the prizes from the JK class and trophies. It gives everyone something to shoot for.
With all of the IRRA clasees has it been considered to rotate the classes from race to race?

Josh

#5 Pappy

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:18 PM

No Josh, I haven't even considered rotating classes, but it might happen. Mike likes the Flexi GT race but we don't get many racers at the other tracks for that class.

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#6 Jacob Shiplet

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 07:52 PM

Im in for flexi GT
Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.

#7 M. Lovelace

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 08:33 PM

I like Flexi GT
Malcolm Lovelace

#8 Dave Reed

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:05 PM

Flexi Anything is NOT RETRO!.. If this IS a Retro series KEEP IT A SCRATCH BUILT SERIES... :drinks:

#9 Pappy

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 11:11 PM

I like Flexi GT

Why, you're not allowed to race it, you're a Masters and only Rookie's are allowed in the Flexi GT class. :)

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#10 Lucky Me

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 12:20 AM

I like Flexi GT, and I'm a Rookie. I also like the prizes that Josh mentioned for JK Spec. As far as "Retro" and scratchbuilt, I like that too. I think all the variety keeps you well rounded with your driving style and certainly helps the newby like me learn that much quicker from a driving stand point as well as a tuning stand point.
If you really think about it, their is a lot of "non retro" parts being used in what many consider to be retro. The closest thing I've seen so far that is as close to true retro is the Jaildoor class, and even that class uses a modern TSR motor. My goal is to have a car for every class, that way it doesnt matter who is running what class, I know I will have a car for what ever class that is slated for that day. I just wanna race and have fun doing it, I think that's what it is about, I certainly would not kill a class that seems to be the easiest way for a newby that may not have the funds or the skills to build totally scratch to get into this great hobby and enjoy it from the start.
Just my opinion. :D I also plan on attending a lot more of the OVR this year and I hope I will be able to race Flexi GT at these races also.

Rick Maynard.
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#11 GB14x

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 05:36 AM

Pappy,

I think one of the obvious reasons you're not getting many entries for flexi is that about half the people there aren't allowed to run it anymore. Also, one problem with the retro classes is the tire size, it's one race and out with the ($10) set of tires, at least with flexi you can re-use those tires at a smaller size.

Also, I think a lower race fee might help. I know the fees are to cover the costs of the plaques & so forth, but I personally don't care about them. Just hand out stickers or something like that, with everyone being in the same category (no masters or rookies).

I like the idea of a three race program with one of the classes using the smaller tires. I'm basing my ideas on what we do
at the Tom Thumb races. Three classes ($20 total entry & pit pass) using two sets of new tires ($20) makes for a reasonably priced raceday program.
Gary Brammell
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#12 Pappy

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 08:01 AM

Hi Gary and Rick,

I understand where you are coming from and they are all good points. Personally I never did like Flexi GT and didn't race it even before it became a Rookie's only class. And there really aren't that many Masters at most of our races, a lot of them just had me, Paul Martin and Neil Easterday there. I definitley want to do away with the Masters and Rookie designations. I don't care about the plaques either but a lot of guys do. I've been trying to find something else to award the winners with that would be more useful and still stay in our budget. If anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear them. This is the way I look at it, and remember nothing has been finalized yet.

1. All raceways have a flexi class a guy can race in to get started in slot racing.

2. You can use your worn out tires in these races

2. Flexi GT is not Retro other than the body

3. If you want to race in a Retro race and don't have a car someone will always lend you a car to give it a try. I've had as many as five cars in one race.

4. It's not bringing in new racers (we only had four in Flexi GT at our last race and one of them was Ed the raceway owner). This is also making it hard to get turn marshalls because most of the guys have already packed up and left.

5. The trophies for each class cost $35 so it's not even paying for the trophies.

6. We would get a much larger turn out for GT Coupe or Stock Car. Plus everyone is allowed to race in those classes.

7. If we replace Flexi GT with GT Coupe you could race in three classes with one chassis.

8. One of my main goals besides everyone having fun is to make the raceway money. If they aren't making any money why should they host our races.

I appreciate you posting your thoughts on this and I hope more people do. I'm trying to make it as much fun for everyone as I can. I know not everyone is going to agree with what ever we do but I'm sure they will still have fun.

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#13 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 10:29 AM

Let's take a look at your list

1. All raceways have a flexi class a guy can race in to get started in slot racing.

Hopefully ! But being able to compete in the "big" race is an incentive for rookies to keep at it.

2. You can use your worn out tires in these races

You certainly can.

2. Flexi GT is not Retro other than the body

I never said it was. Just like AAA Baseball isn't the "Big Leagues". But you have to start somewhere.

3. If you want to race in a Retro race and don't have a car someone will always lend you a car to give it a try. I've had as many as five cars in one race.

That's true. There are many people willing to loan equipment to new racers. BUT is that an effective way to attract new entries? They drive a loaner, have a good time, and want to keep racing. Add up the cost of putting together a Retro Flexi and compare it to the cost of, as some call it, a "true" Retro car. After buying all the parts and tools required to build it (Dremel, Ungar iron etc.) the $$ are at least twice the cost of Flexi. Then they are left with a bag of parts and still without the skills to build it.

4. It's not bringing in new racers (we only had four in Flexi GT at our last race and one of them was Ed the raceway owner). This is also making it hard to get turn marshalls because most of the guys have already packed up and left.

Maybe at T/R and Fast Eddies. Tom Thumb has added several people to Retro BECAUSE of Flexi. One of them has already posted in this thread. He liked Retro so much that he is now a prolific and very skilled builder. He has made a very substantial investment of time and money in his Retro racing program that he would not have done without first getting introduced to the fun of Retro. That is what Flexi does best. Three more just this week are working toward racing in the fall by converting the Flexis they already own into Retro Flexis. ALL forms of sport or hobby MUST have a place for new people to "learn the ropes" before fully committing.

5. The trophies for each class cost $35 so it's not even paying for the trophies.

OK. Maybe we should scale back the awards for Flexi.


6. We would get a much larger turn out for GT Coupe or Stock Car. Plus everyone is allowed to race in those classes.

Possibly. But how many new racers will we get over the course of the year? Enough to replace any current racer who quits? We always talk about how nice it is when a new racer joins in the fun. Why make it harder on them? If they like Flexi they will work towards building a Can-Am or F1. If they don't they will either stick with just Flexi or move on to some other hobby.

7. If we replace Flexi GT with GT Coupe you could race in three classes with one chassis.

That is also true. And with mostly the same racers we have today.

8. One of my main goals besides everyone having fun is to make the raceway money. If they aren't making any money why should they host our races.

Money is good! :D Personally I would rather race a Can-Am or F1 over a Flexi. But my likes or dislikes are not what this is about. Whether we get 20 Flexi entries or only two I strongly feel that we must ALWAYS hold out a hand to the new racers. It is important to make it as easy as possible in both $$ and skill level for someone new to race. If we include Retro Flexi we may or may not get many new entries. Without Retro Flexi however I'm fairly certain we will get very few if any.

I appreciate you posting your thoughts on this and I hope more people do. I'm trying to make it as much fun for everyone as I can. I know not everyone is going to agree with what ever we do but I'm sure they will still have fun.

Butch is absolutely right. No matter what we WILL have FUN. RETRO RACING ROCKS !!


Mike McMasters
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#14 Vannerlee

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 11:42 AM

Some thoughts:

Since retro is fun why give out dust collectors (trophys)? Take the dust collector money and "buy" some usable (not obsolete stuff) race prizes and give entrants a prize ticket, award the prizes based on a random draw. More races entered more tickets for the prize drawing. Race results should be sufficient REWARD for the winners.

People leave before the flexie race and ya have no turn attendents? Run the support class first, let the new guys race and go home if they dont have F1 or Can Am cars. How to ya get the new guys intersted if ya make them hang till "dark" to race. They call them the warm ups to the big 1 to 1 racing.

Let all skill levels race in JK Spec and Flexie, report the results by skill level. Yes I can hear the skilled drivers bitching about the rookie taking him out but the skilled driver chose to run the race. Darn there may be a less skilled driver in F1 and Can Am also.

Thanks for the read.

Lee
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#15 mam2f

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 12:01 PM

Gents,

Just wanted to say that y'all are very fortunate to have
such a good retro racing program in Ohio, supported by
great raceway owners.

At this time, we don't have anything happening in Michigan.
I've put out some feelers...we'll see what happens.

Hope to race with you guys soon. I was pretty geeked to
see Mike's summer series at Tom Thumb.
Mark Miller

#16 Terry

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 03:37 PM

First place = a free entry at the next event?

Terry
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#17 Steve Deiters

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 04:36 PM

I think Lee made a lot of good points about the series. I think keeping the flexi's is a good idea not only entry level for new racers but also for not so new racers (like myself) who have been away for years and need as much competiton track time as they can get. That was the sole reason I built a flexi car. Haven't competed with it as much as I wanted so far , but that's the game plan.
As far as trophies or no trophies maybe something to consider would be rather than have trophies funded by the entry fees give that money to the track owners and award vouchers in the place of trophies good for the purchase of parts at the hosting track. This way the the winning racer benefits with needed parts and the track owners bottom line is affected in a positive way in addition to the other revenue they receive on race day. The racer has his tire stock or motor inventory replenished as he sees fit at the same time. Award trophies (top 3 each class)at the end of the season through a point system that is accumulating during the season. The "race" is then extended the length of the season. I'm always concerned that there is insufficent cash flow to the raceways hosting the race. In the long run we want to make sure they are funded so they are there next week when we want to race.
One closing thought maybe we could have a "pool" flexi race car and controller or two made available at each track that is visited that would be available to a new racer, young or old, with a little experience (i.e. a hometrack racer) who wants to see what it's all about before taking the plunge. This individual could be picked or prompted by the hosting track owner and offered the use of the equipment. The only thing he or she/young or old would have to bring to the table is a desire to compete and 1/2 (nothing should be "free") the entry fee. In my view all levels of this racing has to geared to bringing new people to the hobby otherwise in about 15 years it may all be gone. Just a thought.

#18 Pappy

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 11:17 PM

Hi Steve,

Giving out vouchers is something that was discussed in length when we made up the IRRA rules. It was determined that this was a practice that we didn't want any IRRA series to do because as a rule the same small group of racers always win and the rest feel as though they are supporting their racing and will quit.

The problem with a point series is (1) keeping track of the points is a headache and (2) when some racers know they aren't in contention for a trophy they quit coming.

For all the guys who think we need Flexi GT to bring in new racers, just remember Flexi GT is not what got the series going in the first place. It was the comaraderie and fellow racers loaning out cars so the new guys could race.

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#19 Rick

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 12:12 AM

Butch, FWIW, I have also has this conversation with other retro leaders and think that as long as you continue to offer flexi racing, the flexi racers will never cross over. They will cross if there is no flexi class to race in because people just like to compete with other people and retro is the hot game in town, at this moment.

The flexi class is something that should be contested at the local track level and not included in the traveling series. It's retro, home made or scratch built from a kit.
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#20 Vannerlee

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 01:35 AM

Hummm

Other Retro leaders think if there is no flexie class at the retro races the local flexie racers will scratch build a car/kit and enter an event.

Has that been demonstrated with new racers or is it like our local area. Racers from "the old days" that built cars back in the day build the F1 and Can Am cars and have a ball in retro racing.

It seems Retro Racing has allowed the "old timers" a place to relive their youth. Look at the "names" from the past that still have "it".

Looking at the events I have attended the average age is "old", little new blood in a hobby I have enjoyed for about 50 years.

How do we get the younger people involved? Its too much fun not to share with those not from the old days.

Many posts on this blog are "how to", a great start to get some new blood building but....

Lee
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#21 GB14x

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 06:09 AM

Pappy,

The debate over flexi continues, here are some more ideas and observations.

The flexi class at Tom Thumb works very well, but that's a very historic track that everyone who's ever raced slot cars knows about. They also have a (new) successful local racing program, spawned in part by the retro movement. It's also a large hobby store with good customer traffic, in a large city.

The other tracks on the schedule are more typical slot tracks with less exposure. They don't seem to have a large local program yet, other than drag racing.

Here are some ideas for 2009/2010 Ohio Valley Series.

1. Run three classes, four is too many, & two is not enough

2. Run F1, JK Spec, & one other class (maybe drop Can-Am since it's basically the same as JK Spec)

3. Use the JK Spec class for awards, since it is obviously sponsored by JK, and you're not doing away with that.

4. Give the other class winners a "Feature Winner" sticker and that's it. (to keep costs down)

5. Don't do points for the whole season.

6. $5 pit pass, $10 for the first class, $5 each for the other classes.
Gary Brammell
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#22 Pappy

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:22 AM

2. Run F1, JK Spec, & one other class (maybe drop Can-Am since it's basically the same as JK Spec)

Not a good idea because we are trying to encourage "scratchbuilding".

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#23 Pappy

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:27 AM

How do we get the younger people involved? Its too much fun not to share with those not from the old days.

Just lend them a car, Lee. :) No form of racing is for everyone, that's why some guys race HO, some race 1/32nd, some drag race and so on. If they want to race Retro they will find a way. You will never get me to drag race or race wing cars no matter what you do. The same thing applies to Retro, Retro is not going to save slot racing whether you include Flexi GT or not.

Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#24 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:40 AM

..................Retro is not going to save slot racing whether you include Flexi GT or not.


Interesting statement. Curious what you base that on.

Mike McMasters
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#25 Mopar Rob

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:23 AM

QUOTE (Pappy @ May 9 2009, 08:27 AM) Posted Image..................Retro is not going to save slot racing whether you include Flexi GT or not.




My example would be Chicago.



Something like 8 million in population and about 40 commercial slot racers from the three tracks. About 3/4 of them being around age 60. Oh wait we have a new track opening in Kankakee so we can add about 10 more racers.

Personally, I think club racing will always be around in some form. It might be 1/32 plasticar or commercial type slot cars, but the majority of commercial raceways will be gone.

Rob Hanson

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Rob was right!






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