130 replies to this topic

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

OK, won't do technical.

The entry motor is wound like the best of the Slot.It V12s.
The mid-level motor is a about like the TSRF motor.
The "hot" wind is like the Mura Wasp.

So, for Tore's enduro, you guys ought to be lapping a bit faster than the S-7 times, assuming you don't blow something.

Prof.Fate

[johnk]

I tested one of my Mark Is in my sidewinder and it was a little slower than a good Falcon V with the same gearing (14/45). Maybe the Pro Slot needed more breaking-in?

johnk

[Prof. Fate]

Hi, John,

If you used the hottest of them, it is hotter than the V in wind. General rule of thumb with motors is that you would need a higher gear ratio for the hotter wind.

If 14/46 for the V, then something like 14/48 or 13/44.

Fate

[slowjim]

Have been using the Pro Slot Euro motors since they came out. The first series ran good with a Falcon III arm installed, and run in reverse (CCW) rotation. When the 4002 motor came out, I tried one and immediately fell in love. Fast as a good Falcon V or Slick 7, and a much smoother power curve, making the car easier to drive. After 6 races, it's still on the original brushes and just gets faster.

slowjim

[KenMiles]

Hi, Racers,

I missed racing in Tore's enduro Saturday, October 28, but was there to witness the race. For those of you who haven't heard, Tore won. But the bigger story was the high attrition rate of the new Pro Slot Euro Mk1 (#4002). These motors were specially prepared for the enduro by Pro Slot, re-trued and re-balanced but otherwise identical to Pro Slot's #4002. I believe there were altogether eight failures within four teams, four burnt in practice and four during the race. Philippe de Lespinay will have one of his exemplary race reports ready soon.



I received two Euro Mk1s myself, identical to the motors sent for the enduro. I'd probably have bought a couple from BPR except that I never saw them on BPR's shelves. The size is identical to the FK, but otherwise resembles a miniature 'C' can. I did notice one motor became really hot as I spun it to dress the cut down shafts. Worrysome. :| Note the ears on the mount plate.



A top view illustrates a motor fit problem. If I cut the tube so that the face of the plate may extend rearward, too little surface of the tube remains to get a sound solder joint. I hadn't anticipated the ears as I built two chassis using a traditional axle tube. Pillow blocks would be nice, but remember, these are 13/16" rear tires. No pillow blocks are readily available for 13/16" diameter tires.



The solution was adding a bracket, this one cannabalized from a Parma International 32 brass chassis. The bracket provides a structural tie from the post to the axle tube.



A view from the inside face of the motor bracket shows where the motor ear would extend.

~~~~~~

Of the conditions I hope make a difference (from the enduro) is break-in. I will seat the brushes at least 20 minutes at 3.5 volts in air, conventional. Then I will check the track conditions for the state of glue, as this has proven important with the FK motors.

One thing that will help. The chassis as shown weighed in at 96 grams with a 'C' can motor. It will certainly weigh in lighter with the Mk1. Earlier testing with a G12 motor was a handful except on the Gerding King. The speed of the Pro Slot motor is very similar to the S 7, even the gearing - so handling should be a blast!

ThanX, :mrgreen: 8)

Ken Miles on behalf of his brother,

[Slotgeezer]

I wasn't too happy about the location of the "ears" with the 2mm mounting screw holes, either, Allen . . . :roll:
They were rapidly dispatched courtesty of my Dremel tool . . . :mrgreen:
Oh, no can cutting, you say?. . . I say hogwash . . . why carry extra weight when it's unnecessary. . . we hack-up our chassis to lighten them, and it was common-place to "notch" the "A", "B", & "C"-can motors to clear the rear axle, so removing the 2mm mountings tabs can't bother the overall motor performance, at least if you remember to blow the chips out of the motor, before you run it! . . . removing the tabs won't alter performance, just make it easier to get the motor close to the axle tube . . .
I opened my motor up, so I could look at the "innards". . . . I drilled and tapped the endbell for 0-80 hardware, to hold everything together . . . Then I aligned the brush hoods, re-set the end-play, put it in my Toytech Lola GT, and began experimenting with gearing . . . it ran good geared 13-43, and 12-40, 64-pitch, but I'm still looking for a little LESS heat, on the King track . . . next ratio to try is 14-50, 80-pitch . . . total weight of car is 108 grams, so it's not a boat-anchor, by any means . . . runs cooler, on the Hillclimb . . . fun to drive . . .
I like this motor. . . it's quick, has good top-end, and excellent "punch" . . . I feel it'll make a great motor for our new GT Retro-winder class, coming in '07 . . . Take care, Allen! . . . My 2 cents worth . . . your mileage may vary . . . . . . Good racing!

[idare2bdul]

Allen Low brought two Pro Slot mini motors to BP yesterday. The brush hoods were severly misaligned on one. Pressing on the spring while running resulted in the motor speeding up, probably indicating either too soft a brush spring or a brush hanging up in the hood. That motor ran very hot.
The other motor ran cooler but we had limited time for break-in. I think this motor has enormous promise but the cheap Chinese arm limits it. Its assembly also need some quality control oversight.

[scooooter7]

I've noticed the same things with the 16D F/X motors. I've even gotten the blueprinted version (from Proslot) with American arm that also needs extensive work to make right.

[Slotgeezer]

Tested my GT coupe Retro-winder with 80-pitch gearing this afternoon at BP Raceway . . . King track . . . battery power . . . no charger or power supplies on-line . . .
Geared 14-49, 80-pitch, the car ran great . . . great accelleration . . . good brakes, so much so I had to switch-in a 1 ohm, 1 watt resistor into the brake lead to get the car to "roll" into the corners, and shaved .2 of a second off my lap times . . . motor ran cool, and when pushed HARD! for about 2 minutes, it was warm, but still not excessively hot, IMHO . . . so far, best ratio I've tried yet . . . I have room to run a smaller axle gear, but I'm happy with this set-up . . . with .820" dia. JK plastic rim tires, it's a jet . . .
Thanks, everyone! . . . Good racing!

[Foamy]

Fragile only in plastic. I ran Sonic 80 pitch all the time in G7 and Eurosport when I used to race those things. With these D3 motors, gear reliability should be no problem.

[Slotgeezer]

Thank you, Dennis . . . :up:
Mr. Hill is correct . . . as usual!
I was running Sonic 80-pitch brass, Bill . . . :mrgreen:
I've had good luck w/ both plastic & brass, but then my racing experience is limited . . .
Thank you, gentlemen! . . . . . . Good racing!

[Cheater]

Well, despite my limited experience with 80 pitch gears of any material, they are a bit more unforgiving regarding proper backlash adjustment IMO. In my book, 80 pitch gears are best left to experienced racers, which includes almost everyone here except for Pablo!

One question, though: some racers I respect hold the opinion that finer pitch gearing, while smoother, has greater transmission losses. Any thoughts on this?

[Slotgeezer]

Greetings, Cheater! :mrgreen:
IMHO, the "transmission losses" are less . . . less that 64-pitch, and WAY less than 48 pitch! :roll:
I'm sure Mr. Hill will agree!
I've had good luck with the JK 80-pitch spurs, but there's nothing more durable than a good ol' Sonic un-lightened 80-pitch spur gear, when you're racin"!
Take care, Mr. Wells! . . . Good racing! 8)

[idare2bdul]

I've run the Sonic 80 pitch gears a lot and even the lightened ones have not been a source of problems. When running a low horsepower motor they gives you low drag and the choice of some very precise gear ratios.

[KenMiles]

Tested my GT coupe Retro-winder with 80-pitch gearing this afternoon at BP Raceway . . . King track . . . battery power . . . no charger or power supplies on-line . . .
Geared 14-49, 80-pitch, the car ran great . . . great accelleration . . . good brakes, so much so I had to switch-in a 1 ohm, 1 watt resistor into the brake lead to get the car to "roll" into the corners, and shaved .2 of a second off my lap times . . . motor ran cool, and when pushed HARD! for about 2 minutes, it was warm, but still not excessively hot, IMHO . . . so far, best ratio I've tried yet . . . I have room to run a smaller axle gear, but I'm happy with this set-up . . . with .820" dia. JK plastic rim tires, it's a jet . . .
Thanks, everyone! . . . Good racing!

Hi Jeff, racers.

I have now also tested the Pro Slot Euro 1 (PS #4002) in my scratchbuilt anglewinder chassis. Its overall performance is very slightly faster than the fastest of inline Can-Am, but runs far cooler and longer without worry of the motor suddenly dumping. The torque and brakes are very good, mine is geared 12/38 in 64 pitch (Sonic 12T pinion, JK 38T polymer spur).



JK 0.820" treated rears (JK8713PT), JK Indy fronts (JK8742PF), 3-1/8" width, employing an 'Electric Dreams' Porsche 917-10 body. (105 grams in racing trim.)



Electric Dreams' Porsche 917-10 (not legal for D3 Can-Am).

This slotcar's speed and handling is friendly and is a real pleasure to drive, the motor's diminutive mass aiding handling. The car is a great driver training car, as its speed is close to Can-Am, and its handling allows confidence building - that plus being able to lay down lap after lap without fear of the motor overheating. Its torque is sufficient that it can be driven on the shorter Kingleman without need of gear change.

~~~~~~

Between the two Pro Slot 4002s I have, one proved good while the other runs poorly and hot. These motors in particular are Can-Am prototype special edition PS #4002 - Pro Slot having re-trued and re-balanced the armatures. Pro Slot has just notified me it will replace the faulty prototype unit, backing up their product. Once the bugs are worked out of the newly-released 4002, this motor should prove excellent for scale applications.

ThanX :mrgreen: 8)

Ken Miles' court jester,

[Toremeister]

Toremeister just received his new Pro Slot Mini-motor today with an all American-made armature! :up: Can anyone spell "sweet-looking". :roll: But looks don't mean anything if it runs too caliente . . .so stay tuned for further info. :!:

I guess now might be a good time to announce the next Toremeister 2 Person Enduro, length of race is still to be determined and may happen on January 20, 2007 . . . This race will not have individual laps by entrants, but winners shall be combined lap totals by both team-drivers . . .Now here is the twist for this race. This enduro will introduce anglewinder or sidewinders to be used with the cool-looking coupe bodies, as the Electric Dreams sano-looking Chevron-BMW. :!: I now encourage any able scratchbuilder to start thinking about building his new angle/sidewinder. :up: The race will take place on BPR's Hillclimb with race date to be set in stone after USRA Banquet ! . . .

Now don't get all bummed out if you don't have time to build yourself a car. :cry: Toremeister is already well on his way fabricating the all new Sweedster Sidewinder and shall have plenty cars available for sale for a very reasonable price to local racers! Stay tuned for more info in Race Announcements.

[endbelldrive]

I just got my first Pro Slot Mini Mk something motor. Are there any limitations to the anglewinder chassis design other than it has to be of the wire 'n brass variety? Can we have torsion bar frames with lots of rattling, sliding and hinged bits or does it still have to maintain the retro feel? I'm easy either way.

By the way, I've got a scale Porsche 962 with big wheels on the drawing board. I'm trying to stuff an early '90s G27 or G12 arm into the Pro Slot Mini which will go into the 962. Ouch. :shock:

[KenMiles]

Hi, racers.

First I should mention seeing the 'Legends' slot car race Saturday night at Buena Park Raceway. Wow! Cukras, Hines, and Steube and . . . pro racers I only read about in the 1960s, and did they put on a show! The racing was very clean, especially considering some hadn't touched a hand control in 30+ years. I'm sure a report with pics will be posted soon on the blogsite.

Also, Adam Kirkhofer brought the Italian grilled sausage for BPR's complimentary meal. Smokin' sausage! Best I ever tasted. Great show and great eats, too.

~~~~~~

The armature from the second Pro Slot PS4002, which suffered severe overheating during break-in, was re-trued and re-balanced. At first, I thought the armature was out of balance and the comm out of round. But even after reconditioning the arm and reassembly, the arcing continued. The solution finally came at the replacement of the stock motor brushes with Mura Bigfoot IIs.

My other PS 4002 runs fine, so it must be assumed the motor brushes are defective. Considering the PS 4002 overheating failures during BPR's October enduro, faulty brushes were very likely a contributing factor to the overheated enduro motor failures. I'd suggest replacing the stock PS 4002 brushes with higher grade brushes such as the Pro Slot 'Gold Dust' or Mura Bigfoot IIs.

The replacement brushes seated in fine, the motor exhibiting none of the strange arching produced with the stock brushes. Finally, the motor was ready to hit the track.



The car was configured for the smallish BPR Kingleman, geared 11/38, using a Sonic pinion to JK spur. Track times on orange lane were surprisingly quick, about 3.4 seconds. I ran the car until it began chattering, caused by a breakage between the motor side rail post and rear axle housing. That will receive a wire tie before the next test.

~~~~~~

I was also able to get a glimpse of Tore Anderson's new Pro Slot-owered sidewinder. It wasn't quite track ready, but it'd become instantly clear just by viewing Tore's chassis that my own work has been rendered obsolete - even before reaching the starting line. The difference, quite frankly, is the difference between amateur and pro - guess who is who?

I'm now relieved that I'd not built a fleet of chassis for other racers, as it would have proven a great disservice to provide them with uncompetitive equipment. Consider Tore's chassis to beckon only the best to challenge it.

ThanX, :mrgreen: 8)

and Ken Miles' Seasons Cheer!

[TSR]

The 2007 rules and full schedule for Division III racing will be published before January 1st.
The 4 classes are:

1) Retro Can-Am
2) Retro F1
3) Retro T/A and NASCAR (with sidewinder motors of FK size, meaning including the Pro Slot new motor)
4) TSRF (both 1/32 and 1/24 scale)

There will be 12 races for each class, meaning a potential 48 races for the year for someone running all classes.

The Retro Can-Am and Retro F1 rules will see little change except for the mandatory use of a motor bracket presenting three sides and the mandatory use of a straight, one-piece front axle (meaning one piece, not three pieces soldered or glued together).

The Retro T/A and/or NASCAR rules are not finalized but should be by the end of the month after a meeting of the Powers That Be, and Yours Truly will be only a casual observer as usual.

The TSRF rules will evolve slightly to make it easier for beginners to get their feet wet. What we have learned as far as setup will be posted on the website.
Regards,

[CruzinBob]

. . . experimenting with running Contender arms in the Pro Slot minis . . .

Hmmmm, that sounds good, wonder what size the can bushing is to fit up the BB?!

[KenMiles]

Hi, Bill.

Almost. The can side is 6 mm OD, the endbell side is smaller, mm.

Seasons Cheer :mrgreen: 8)