46 replies to this topic

[One_Track_Mind]

Come across this collection of old vintage cars, just want to share some pictures.

Will add more and more pictures as we go along.

[Cheater]

Brian,

Too easy to guess the builder, especially if one right-clicks one of the pics and selects "Properties" to view the file name... LOL!!!

Thanks for posting these shots. Lots of early innovation in these cars, but a recognized master builder, I'd suggest. I love the way several of the chassis incorporate the motor cans as "stressed members".

[One_Track_Mind]

Hey Greg,

That's not fair!... no wonder you're called Cheater! I should have not used the name in labeling the pictures.

Buy anyways, yes, you're correct with the inovations. From what I was told when I received this collection one of these chassis pre-dates the Gene Husting's design. Now which one is it, I have no idea of knowing? But was told it's in there.

Just a few more.

[Jairus]

Brian, do you have a guess on the dates some of these were constructed?

[One_Track_Mind]

Hi Jairus,

No, I do not know what that date maybe for construction, although I do have a mold that has a date on the bottom of march 1968. Could or would this be representative of the actual builds? I'm not sure?.

Here's the mold.









Just as a side note: I was told that these were carved by Dick Dobson.

[TSR]

when I received this collection one of these chassis pre-dates the Gene Husting's design.

This is indeed well-documented. Roy Moody is the true inventor of the anglewinder slot car. His first attempt dates from August 1967, the resulting model shown in an issue of Model Car Science.

Neither of the cars shown above are "it". From their typical design and known evolution, it is likely that all the anglewinder models above were built in mid-1968 actually after the concept had been publicized.

It would be great to find the actual original car... that one has a different pan design.

Please note that Moody's design is still pretty much the one used on serious home-racing cars... today.

Roy Moody was a true genius and some of his R/C early models show outstanding engineering as well as craftsmanship.

[One_Track_Mind]

His first attempt dates from August 1967, the resulting model shown in an issue of Model Car Science.

Neither of the cars shown above are "it".

Hi Philippe,

Would you happen to have that magazine picture? As I still have not posted all that I have in my possesion. Maybe this can help narrow it down?

You say neither of the above cars are "it". There are actually four different ones posted.

Thank you.

[TSR]

Hi Brian,

Yes, I looked at them all. The first one you posted with the Chevron B16 body is the closest to it but is not it.

I will scan it for you and post it here unless someone beats me to it.

Best regards,

P

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

This is just from memory, but the first pic I remember seeing in print was a Schleicher article in March or April '68, written in November of '67, talking abut these things.

My quibble, P is the use of the 26D. The chassis designs in the era, the wiggle pan, floppies, or straight plates were all over the place in the day. And this particular design led to Jim Russel''s "Russkit Rattler". But my memory says that 26Ds weren't common after about spring '67. So, these might be earlier. The telltale would be if I could see them in person to look at the motor work and bits inside that cannot be seen.

It might not be THE first, but they could be close. Part of my continuing thing that a lot of cool stuff never made the mags, or did so months or years later. Especially in 1/32.

Just before his death, Jose and I were talking about a guy we remembered doing early anglewinders named Frank something. We just could not draw up more.

Fate

[TSR]

Rocky,

There are lots of claims about who invented what and when. I researched this pretty deeply a few years back and can tell you that Moody is the guy, the other guys simply wanted to usurp credit for his invention.

The later Schleicher car had a stock Mabuchi FT16D 1968 version with the oval hole can and aluminum can bearing housing. It also had trailing front wheels mounted on hinged arms, basically making them pretty useless. It was shown in a following issue of the one showing Moody's "side-saddle sidewinder" as it was called. Roy's car had a 26D in it.

Also Husting CLAIMED all along that he never saw the Moody car when he devised his own 1/24 scale anglewinder.
With all due respect, one has to go with documented facts and not hearsay.

This also goes with the rest of the stuff, like "we were better than they were and if they had shown up we would have shown them".

Regards,

P

[One_Track_Mind]

Hi Rocky,

You're more then welcome to come to OH for a visit and have a looksie!

In the meantime, while you're making plans, take a peek at these motors. What I thought was really strange is that I have never seen there is no wire showing? Whatever was used to epoxy the wire is very smooth and filled right up to the top of the laminations.

The first one is from the Chevron B16 bodied car... which also has a very short can.



This one is from the blue-colored bodied car.



Does this tell us anything?

Thanks for looking.

[One_Track_Mind]

While we are waiting on PdL or anyone else to find that model car magazine scan, here's some more of the collection.

[TSR]

Brian,

Many rewinders used color epoxy in the day so you could not see the actual coil. The most popular were the motors and arms manufactured by Dyna-Rewind of course, but there were plenty more. Roy was a very independent person and most likely rewound his own from stock Mabuchi blanks.

Dyna-Rewind's Ted Lech and Carl Storhdal found their first cream-color epoxy while working at GM R&D.

[Howmet TX]

The 26D arm looks to me like some old unidentified rewinds I have, which have slips of wood covering the windings between the laminations, all epoxied in. Is it that, rather than filed-down epoxy, which seems a dangerous ploy to me?

Gorgeous cars, by the way! Love the Chevron!

[TSR]

John,

John Thorp used slivers of fiberglass stuck between the webs of two poles to retain the coils from popping out. it worked really well and the Thorp arms, actually wound by now-retired pro racer Gil Gundersen, were among the very best ever made in the day (1969-1973).

Now wood slivers? Depends it it is balsa or mahogany, I guess...

[One_Track_Mind]

Also Husting CLAIMED all along that he never saw the Moody car when he devised his own 1/24 scale anglewinder.

This may be a true statement, as Roy and Gene talked via the telephone many times and maybe Roy shared his design idea with Gene.

Roy had a slot car track in his basement of his house and used to have guys over all the time racing and sharing ideas.This time frame was around 1967-69.

Did anyone find that model car magazine scan yet? Please post it here in this thread. For some reason I do recall seeing it at one time maybe on this forum or elsewhere? I tried the search feature and had no luck.

Where is RDMAC when we need him? He's good at finding and recalling these type of posts.

[endbelldrive]

Hi Brian,

Bertil Berggren posted it on the Roy Moody 1927-2008 memorial thread that you started awhile back. It's still a nice read after all of these months.

[don.siegel]

Here's the scan of the page I think you're referring to, from the May '68 issue of Model Car & Science; I thought there was an earlier picture, but maybe this is it! It's in an article on the NAMRA World page, on the First 500 International, which included proxy entries like this one. The article says that the Moody T70 was down on power and made the semi-finals.



Two months later, in the July '68 issue, came the article on the Second MC&S/USRA race, with the first bunch of anglewinders; that was also the issue that Schleicher had the article about the latest in 1/32 chassis, in which he credits the design to Glen Seegars of the Chicago suburb-based group. It's got an anglewinder on a two-part pan chassis and some Dynamic components, plus the caster wheels on the front. I can scan more of this tomorrow if anybody is interested, but it's getting late here...

Don

PS: thanks for the close-up, Bob! I thought we were limited to 650 pixels, but I guess we can go a little wider, especially for anglewinders...

[One_Track_Mind]

Thanks, Bob, (Don). I feel so ashamed as to where you found it and I couldn't recall. Darn me anyways...

Just for the record Philippe is correct again as the B+W pictured car shown above is not any of the cars in this collection.

Should I continue with posting the rest of the pictures? Would anyone like to see them?

Now that we know the "It" car is still a mystery of its whereabouts.

[TSR]

Just for the record Philippe is correct again as the B+W pictured car shown above is not any of the cars in this collection.

It's a curse.

[slotbaker]

Should I continue with posting the rest of the pictures? Would anyone like to see them?

I would think that is a silly question to ask us.

OF COURSE we would like to see them, they are great.

[One_Track_Mind]

It might have been a silly question Steve, but at least I know now someone is reading.

So just for you, here's some more...









How the body removes from this car is a mystery to me? It's like you have to remove the front wheels?

This red bodied car has just holes thru the front of the body also.

[Hworth08]

This ARTICLE, by Gene Husting, as he reported the first 1/24 anglewinders should add to the confusion.

It seems Mr. Gene freely admits the anglewinders were used in the mid-west in 1/32 scale. He was the first to try the concept with 1/24 scale cars.

[One_Track_Mind]

[TSR]

This ARTICLE, by Gene Husting, as he reported the first 1/24 anglewinders should add to the confusion.

It seems Mr. Gene freely admits the anglewinders were used in the mid-west in 1/32 scale. He was the first to try the concept with 1/24 scale cars.

Indeed. But Gene has always claimed that he had never seen one before he built his, which is hard to believe. He also claims that the mid-westerners "had been using these for years" in his story, when in fact we are talking dog years here, actually, mere couple of months.

Indeed the FT26 motor as first used by Moody (and so far NO ONE has been able to show me any evidence of an earlier anglewinder model) was barely available to the general public when all this happened.

Hence, no change yet in my logic of how it happened: Moody did it first, Husting saw it in the very magazine where he wrote his stories, and built a much-evolved 1/24 scale version of it that worked great.

Both deserve due credit.

Then, in 2004, Ninco invented it, again...