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#51 havlicek

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:38 AM

That's sorta what I figured Doug. :)

Philippe,

Thanks as always for the exhaustive explanation with pictures! Now just send that ugly motor in the plastic case that someone has done grafitti on to me :laugh2:

-john
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#52 Champion 507

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 12:49 AM

PdL,

Would you post a clearer (maybe a 3/4) view of the back end of a Cozine motor, please?
Doug Azary
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#53 Russell Sheldon

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 04:06 AM

Here's an advertisement for the Cozine Signature from an old Model Cars magazine:-


Posted Image


Kind regards,

Russell

Russell Sheldon
Cape Town, South Africa

--------------------------------------
 


#54 Champion 507

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 09:47 PM

Let's have some more "phun"!

This is a Champion 617 26D size motor that I have had since new (1968). It's original shunted brushes are long gone. Both the solder tabs on the endbell have broken off as well as one of the brush spring retainer hooks. Several years ago I was able to obtain an NOS endbell and a pair of shunted brushes, so that is what I am replacing today. Here is our starting place:

DSCF3331.JPG


In this close up of the endbell, you can see both of the solder tabs are broken off and one of the spring retainer hooks is also broken. I bent the top of the right brush spring and secured it with the brush hood screw. Forty years ago as a teenager it was the cheapest fix I could come up with.

DSCF3334.JPG


New for 1968, Champion was color coding their armature insulators on both the 517 and 617. Thru much research and examples finally showing up, it has been determined which insulators were available. The color of the insulator represented the size wire the armature was wound with. Red was #26 gauge, green was #27 gauge, purple was #28 gauge, and blue was #29 gauge. Here is a copy of the ad from the March, 1968 Car Model Magazine showing all the new developments for the two motors.

Color_Coded_Insulators.jpg


Here is the armature complete with Champion's bench grinder balancing marks. This one has purple insulators so it was wound with #28 wire.

DSCF3348.JPG


Basically it was "off with the old" and "on with the new" endbell. Here is everything all assembled.

DSCF3349.JPG DSCF3351.JPG DSCF3352.JPG


Except for the faded motor label this ol' gal almost looks new again. It originally came with the cheap Jap ball bearing in the can but I replaced it with a bronze bushing years ago. It still runs good and draws less than one amp. I will probably make a scratchbuilt brass rod inline stock car chassis for this and, more than likely, will use one of those re-pop Lexan Ford Torino or Mercury Cyclone bodies on it.

Next time we re-convene we are going to literally bring back a Champion 601 from the dead and update it in the process.

See you next time - same bat time, same bat channel.
Doug Azary
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#55 havlicek

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 05:57 AM

Hi Doug,

Another beautiful motor :wub: , for me easily the nicest of all the 26Ds. Again, it's fabulous that you kept it all these years...and even more so that it will see track time in a new chassis!

-john
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#56 Champion 507

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 10:12 PM

And it keeps on gettin' "phunner"!

Most people probably would have thrown this motor away! As a matter of fact, a former track owner gave this to me several years ago because he did not think it was worth anything. To me it looked like a diamond in the rough and I thought I could save it. This is the early version of Champion's 601 because it has the foil motor sticker on the side and top and bottom vent holes instead of the one closed side we are accustomed to seeing. Here is the beast before it becomes a beauty.

DSCF3260.JPG DSCF3262.JPG DSCF3266.JPG DSCF3259.JPG DSCF3270.JPG


Both heat sinks had melted into the endbell and the brush hoods had moved too. Both springs were melted into the spring posts. The lead wires were nothing but cheap, old speaker wire and they were not even soldered. They were just twisted around the solder tabs. The whole inside was coated with oil and one pole on the armature appears totally burned up. The armature was also soaked in oil. This baby is going to have to be rewound. Here is what it all looked like after it was disassembled.

DSCF3271.JPG


Here is a close up of the bad armature.

DSCF3273.JPG


Armature being unwound... yuck!

DSCF3284.JPG


After all the wire was stripped off the rest of the parts came off.

DSCF3286.JPG


With the armature all stripped and disassembled, I next tackled the job of trying to save the endbell. I had some new Parma Deathstar brush hoods but because of their design I had to use the positive side out of two sets to give this endbell a more "traditional" look. I started the modification by cutting everything off of both sides of the endbell.

DSCF3275.JPG DSCF3274.JPG


Once everything was cut off, both sides were filled flat.

DSCF3281.JPG



Next I had to modify the brush hoods so that they would fit on the endbell properly. I had to cut and slightly narrow the brush hood base for a correct fit. The top part of the brush hood fit perfectly with no modifications. The original Mabuchi screw was reused to hold the upper part of the brush hood under the solder tab and a two millimeter screw with a turned down head and two millimeter eyelet were used for each spring post.

DSCF3277.JPG DSCF3283.JPG


And here is what it looks like when it is all together. Also here is the armature all cleaned up and ready to be wound. I have installed nylon insulators that resemble Champion's and a recycled Parma Deathstar comm. The endbell turned out pretty good, don't you think?!

DSCF3305.JPG


The next step is to make this bad boy armature run again. I am going to use a 42 year old roll of 99 #28 gauge red wire and my old but trusty La Ganke motor winder. How long has it been since we have been able to buy a roll of 99 magnet wire?

DSCF3358.JPG DSCF3362.JPG


I have gone to wind...

See you next time. Same bat time, same bat channel.
Doug Azary
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#57 Horsepower

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 11:18 PM

Doug, this is so cool I think I wet my self! :blush: :laugh2:
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#58 munter

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:55 AM

The endbell turned out pretty good, don't you think?!

I do think!

Doug, I have a few 26D's ranging from mint in box through to wrecks so I have picked up some tips here,thanks.
What other wind specs can you recommend?

regards
John

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#59 havlicek

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 06:14 AM

Great stuff Doug! I've used both Deathstar and older Mura endbell hardware on various Mabuchis also and you get the benefit of the larger brushes PLUS just flat-out better hardware. Good call! The Deathstar com is also particularly well suited to this application because of it's profile being so slim around the base. Space gets pretty tight up top on 26Ds because of the short endbell and stack and this com (besides being the right diameter for the new sized brushes) will allow as much space for wire as possible. This Champ will live again!

-john
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#60 Champion 507

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 03:55 AM

Gary, I think this motor is going to turn out good. I hope you like the finished product.

************************
JOHN WARREN QUOTE:

"What other wind specs can you recommend?"

************************
J.W., Since I had to rewind the arm, I counted the turns as I unwound it. From Mabuchi, these came with 75 turns of #30 wire. This motor is retaining it's stock magnets, so I can't get too crazy with the wind. I think 55 to 60 turns of #29 would be a nice first step. I'm putting 50 turns of #28 on this one. For #27 or #26 wire I would have to put a set of higher performance magnets in it such as Arcos or Mura's Magnums.

************************

JOHN HAVLICEK QUOTE:

"The Deathstar com is also particularly well suited to this application because of it's profile being so slim around the base".

************************

J.H., I thought of you when I chose this comm. I remember some of your 26D builds that you were commenting about limited winding space at the top of the arm due comm size. When I slid this Parma comm on I thought "lotsa room for wire up here". Besides, I wasn't building this thing to race again. It didn't need to turn 100,000 rpms. A Parma comm will do just fine for what I'm doing here. I guess we could call it a "Parmbuchi" or "Mabuchima" :wacko: :blink: Maybe not.

Thank you all for your nice comments.
Doug Azary
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#61 havlicek

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:12 AM

Hi Doug,

When I first started rewinding again, I got a bunch of similar coms (and arms) from Ron Hershman to experiment with. While they're skinny and don't look like much, I torture-tested them :) pretty well and never had one fail. Even these are a far cry from the original Mabuchi stuff it seems, but you could also fashion a com cap if you had the right material (some phenolic stock would be a good start)...but that would be a LOT of work unless you had a mini-lathe. You could also simply wrap the very tippy top of the com (after cleaning with super fine Scotchbrite) with kevlar thread, wrap masking tape around the com and epoxy the thread...a little fiddly, but a lot quicker. Still, I doubt you'd have any problems with those coms for Mabuchi builds. They seem just fine. As for the name...Chambupar :laugh2:

-john
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#62 Prof. Fate

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 05:24 PM

Hi

You are having fun....good!

Anyway, check that line and dark spot on the bearing housing. It if is what it looks like in the photos, this is where the endbell with fail. It works to pull the bearing, using a fine tip scribe or #11, and clean out whatever has gotten in, then flow a little epoxy into the thing from both sides. THEN remount the bearing.

Fate
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#63 havlicek

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 06:15 AM

OK Doug...I'm waiting for the results (which I bet are gonna be great!) of your 26D rewind on the edge of my seat! over here. This is freakin' cool!

-john
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#64 Champion 507

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:06 PM

Here we go with more "phun"!

Sorry I have been away for a few days. It is time to put the wraps on this old 601. When we left off previously the armature was ready to be rewound. I dug out some forty year old 28 gauge wire to wind this with. Amazingly the insulation coating is still very flexible. Having to take the old original blue wire off the armature enabled me to be able to count the number of turns Mabuchi put on this arm. These came from Japan with 75 turns of #30 wire. Not wanting to get too crazy with the rewind, considering this motor still has the stock magnets, I chose what I thought to be a conservative wind of 50 turns of #28. Here is what it looks like after it has been rewound, epoxied, the comm tied and trued.

DSCF3375.JPG


In preparation to balance this, with a felt tip pen I had labeled the poles A, B and C the way Champion used to; however, the armature would not stop in the same place twice on the razor blades so it did not need to be balanced!! I am sure if you were to put this on a dynamic balancing machine it would probably find a couple of issues but they would be small.

DSCF3376.JPG


Here is what everything looks like before we go back together with it.

DSCF3374.JPG


Here is what it looks like all assembled. I had one slightly used set of shunted 36D brushes and installed them on this motor. I thought it looked pretty cool! In running it after it was built, you can see it only draws 1.2 amps at five volts. This baby is fast and smooth and just barely gets warm. :) :D

DSCF3387.JPG DSCF3383.JPG DSCF3379.JPG


Compare the difference in the before and the after shots.

DSCF3259.JPG DSCF3383.JPG


Yea, the outside of the can is still rough but it sort of adds character to the motor. It is about the only thing that has not changed from the pile of junk that it was. The endbell and aramature have been made like new again. I am pleased with the results. I have another 26D in the on deck circle. I will have it up soon.

See you next time... same bat time... same bat channel
Doug Azary
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"We're not happy unless you're not happy"
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#65 TSR

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:11 PM

Doug, nice job! :)

#66 havlicek

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:19 PM

Doug...VERY nice job! :wub: I'm looking at all the details as well as the wind which in itself looks like a really fine job. The epoxy, tieing and com truing look great too. Looks like you stayed fairly conservative on the advance as well and good call. It's GREAT to see someone else rewinding here and from the look of it, you haven't forgotten anything (which is more than I can say for myself!).

-john
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#67 Champion 507

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 11:08 PM

John,

I've wound a bunch of arms in the past year. They've all been for modern Parma and Slotworks 16D's but I've never posted any here on the blog. When I wind some more I'll post them.

Thank you both for your comments.
Doug Azary
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#68 havlicek

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 05:26 AM

Hi Doug,

Please do! I'm going to be sending you a little something extra with "the package" that I'm sure you'll be able to use ;)

In preparation to balance this, with a felt tip pen I had labeled the poles A, B and C the way Champion used to; however, the armature would not stop in the same place twice on the razor blades so it did not need to be balanced!!


You know, there are soooo many little details about tackling these motors that I'm shocked from time to time at how much the great winders of the past must have learned and known. Here's one that has come up a couple of times for me. Sometimes when an arm is balanced and seems to run a little rougher than you would expect...look at the tail spacer. Because the tail spacer rides against the can bearing/bushing, it can cause the arm to "micro oscillate" (for lack of a better term) or move back and forth really rapidly as it spins. Sometimes, just truing the tail spacer will noticeably help smooth out a motor that seems to run a bit rougher than it seems it should.

-john
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#69 Champion 507

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 07:18 AM

John,

I've sure had a number of arms over the years that had untrue tail spacers causing unwanted vibrations (boy, that could be taken several different ways :wacko: :blink: :crazy: :sarcastic_hand: ). Someone makes a truing gizmo that fixes that but I don't have one. Sometimes just changing washers between the back (or front of the motor) for that matter, will help smooth one out. I've had that happen too.

I was amazed this arm turned out so smoothly. After I had cleaned it up, I spun it by hand inside the can and endbell and it spun smoothly. I did the same after I wound it. Then I thought to myself, "self, if you get the epoxy on just right, this baby may not have to be balanced". I guess after you have done several hundred of these things over a span of 40 years, you're bound to do one smooth one and I guess this is the one.

One or both of the cheap factory ball bearings is a little noisy. I may replace them later.

Two big plusses for this crusty old girl are that it screams and the current draw is low. I gotta build a 4 1/2" inline brass rod chassis for this and put a 1969 Ford Torino or Mercury Cyclone body on it and run it on the Hillclimb track that's only 110 REAL miles away.

The good news is that a couple guys are going to open a new track in town, maybe by Thanksgiving. It will have an Ogilvie Blue King. That will double the number of tracks we have in this state to...2. Sweet!
Doug Azary
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#70 havlicek

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 07:27 AM

Hi Doug,

I know the gizmo you're talking about, they have a diamond face and slide over the shaft and you just turn the thing...I don't have one either :laugh2: I do have a way of doing it VERY crudely, but it's a little dangerous so I'll keep it to myself :) Once again, great job and I look forward to seeing more of your motor builds/rewinding posted here.

-john
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#71 Pablo

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:47 AM

"it's a little dangerous so I'll keep it to myself"

Whaddaya mean, "dangerous" ?
Everything you DO here is dangerous :P :ph34r: :crazy: :friends:
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#72 havlicek

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:03 PM

...not at all Pablo. I do all my work using robotic arms from behind a blast shield. :)

-john
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#73 Hworth08

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:58 PM

This is from Cheater's motor building article in the tech section where there is also a picture:

Using the Magnehone armature tool, face both the commutator end and the spacer end of the armature. Again, this reduces vibration by giving the arm spacers true surfaces to contact.
Don Hollingsworth

#74 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 03:38 PM

The Magnehone brush hood alignment tool can be used for trueing the comm & tail spacer faces too. :)

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#75 Champion 507

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:08 PM

Yes sir, yes sir, we are having "phun" now!

Of all the Mabuchi motors K&B imported from Japan only the 26D did not have a yellow painted can and white endbell. Their 26Ds came with a nickel plated can and yellow endbell. The motor we are doing this time around, to me, looks more in line with the rest of their motors. I stripped the can and painted it bright yellow and this has one of those 26D endbell kits from REH that I purchased a number of years ago. It has the Champion brush holders and bushing but it has Mura brush hoods and generic Phillips screws. The armature I am putting in this is an NOS French #25 silver wire.

DSCF3415.JPG


After I painted the can, since the endbell tabs were broken off, I had to drill holes and counter sink them for the flathead screws used to hold on the endbell.

DSCF3414.JPG


Here is everything ready to go prior to assembly.

DSCF3419.JPG


The motor runs great and only pulls one amp at 5 volts.

DSCF3420.JPG


The lead wires came from a Plafit Cheetah several years ago. They are similar to the red and blue wires that came on K&B motors years ago. Here is the motor all assembled and ready to go. The blue wire is actually darker than it appears in the pictures.

DSCF3421.JPG DSCF3432.JPG DSCF3433.JPG


To me this is how K&B's 26Ds should have looked years ago, but obviously I was not included in the decision making process. :laugh2: The spring post protectors are from Mura. The brushes are NOS Mabuchi and I think the springs are Champion. All in all I was pretty happy with the way this motor turned out. Basically it is a piece together job but I think it looks rather handsome.

Next time we are going to do something completely different.

Stay tuned... same bat time... same bat channel
Doug Azary
"We offer prompt service... no matter how long it takes!"
"We're not happy unless you're not happy"
"You want it when?"





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