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#76 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 03:12 PM

Nice way of summing it up, Don.

The first for me is just different than the first for P. :laugh2:

I'm sure the story will be written with the perspective from both sides and thus be 100% accurate! The reader can decide.
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#77 Horsepower

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 03:15 PM

Notice it says minus only, driver, windscreen, etc., on the D-Jag. These were probably not installed to avoid shipping damage and having half of them sent back as defective. The Manta didn't even HAVE a driver!

Don does it again with the "paper work". I must really be getting old. :to_become_senile: I thought I had all those Model Car and Track mags memorized! Nice going, Don! :give_rose:
Gary Stelter

#78 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 03:21 PM

BTW Don,

Do you think the car in the article was molded in white so it would show up better in the pics or did they sell them in white as well as green and blue?
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#79 don.siegel

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 04:28 PM

You know, I wondered about that myself, Scott... I even wondered if it wasn't a sort of test shot or prototype, because of the white color, even though the article doesn't say that, and seems to be announcing that it's already available. We'll probably never know, unless somebody comes up with a white one.

Thanks for the nice comments, too...

But you know Gary, I always think I had these all "memorized" and then something always comes up that makes me realize I don't know as much as I think I do! But I also have a secret weapon: an index I did many years ago, originally on Dbase 4... it's far from perfect, but helps me find stuff like this pretty easily.

Don

#80 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 05:54 PM

The search is on for the elusive white D-Jag. :unsure:
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#81 TSR

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 05:56 PM

I think that as the driver in it, it was simply painted over either a blue or green body.

#82 Jairus

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 06:17 PM

I don't think it was molded in white. I think it was molded in YELLOW and due to the black and white photo.... looks white. Lindberg molded all their Jag D-type's in yellow and called it an "International Sports Racer" to avoid legal complications. I think Unique, in an effort to avoid the expense of creating new molds... simply ordered a number of kits in green. The article is simply the first prototype.

Posted Image

The body as shown in Dokk's pictures from the same exact molds as the Lindberg kit complete with the little electric switch indents under the back "bumper" area.

The first version used a sourced electric motor and required the electric switch. The kit I have used a motor that the builder needed to assemble (and wind strangely enough) with only two poles. This allowed the motor to set at idle until spun up to speed by rotating the wheels. To stop the motor one need only stop the wheels and the poles center on the magnets.

At any rate, the bodies were probably sourced from Lindberg and glued together, then modified by cutting the plastic out between the wheels for chassis clearance. Two additional holes drilled in the underside of the nose and it's done. The whole process wouldn't have taken more than five steps and a jig for drilling. Still cheaper to do than paying for a new mold!

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#83 Jairus

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 07:18 PM

Here is the switch indent cast into the back of the lower body I was talking about.

Posted Image

Since that portion of this kit is not described and no switch assembly in the instructions logic dictates that this kit is a second version.

Here are the instructions describing the winding of the two pole motor.

Posted Image

As one can see I have glued the top and bottom half's together and removed the plastic between the wheels front and rear in preparation for receiving a finished chassis (yet to be constructed). The Pittman 704 motor has been taken apart and the plates flipped over to place the axle between the arm and the magnet as it was with the Unique slot car. Have a nice set of rear wheels that are threaded and work perfect as far as clearance. But now I need some fronts... and a guide shoe.

Posted Image

You don't have any extra chassis parts you can donate, Philippe... huh? ;)

Time for some sanding and a korrect coat of BRG.

Posted Image

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#84 TSR

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 07:46 PM

Lindberg molded all their Jag D-type's in yellow and called it an "International Sports Racer" to avoid legal complications.

Jairus,

Lindberg had a static kit molded in light green and the box said "Jaguar D-Type". I sold on on ePay about six months ago. The kit was available motorized or non-motorized. The motorized version as you have may not have had the name on the box, but the static display kit did.

The Unique bodies we have seen so far were a darker green than the static kit and a medium to dark blue. It is possible that the pictured RTR in the magazine used a yellow body, but it could also be a green or blue body painted in... something light anyway.

Here is the picture you requested for your build:

unique_jaguar_rtr.jpg

I hope that you can see enough of the construction. This is a 1965 issue with the later Pittman motor.

#85 Jairus

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 08:07 PM

Teach me to use a declarative statement again...

Thank you for the picture, P. I had a set of those front wheels a little while ago. Put them on a nice Maserati F1 build for Chris Clark... damn. Now I need something narrow like that again!

Also had a front pickup shoe JUST LIKE THAT and used it on another car for Chris. I gotta stop using all my vintage stuff!!! :blush:

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#86 Horsepower

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 08:15 PM

Mine was gray. Non-motorized.
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#87 TSR

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 08:46 PM

:)

And for the Grande Patrone della LASCM:

unique_jag_ad_3.jpg

#88 Hworth08

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 09:25 PM

The "D" Jag calculates to $82.10 in today's money! Not as many MPH per dollar as a $120 Pro Slot Box-12 Wing car of today! :laugh2: Not as reliable either, except the motor.

Style and grace? To each their own I suppose...
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#89 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 10:01 PM

Almost!

Deceptive advertising doesn't make it true, Philippe, and it doesn't say "fully" assembled (as you claimed in a previous post).

If they had just gone that extra 10 or 20% and made a true RTR they may have sold a million like the Manta Ray, the first REAL ready to run!

This car was "semi" ready to run or "partially" assembled!

I thought you wanted to quit! You want to go to war again??
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#90 TSR

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 10:45 PM

There is no war, just submitted overwhelming evidence versus your denial. :)

The simple reason why the Unique D-Type was not as successful as it could have been is explained in one simple word: poor marketing and poor ads. The packaging was not too encouraging either and the choice of body was a bit off in early 1964, when the D-Type was a totally obsolete racer. Had they used a King Cobra body instead, I bet that the thing would have flown off the shelves. One has to remember that just about every product marketed by Unique had mediocre sales for various reasons, and by early 1968 they were history. Their first car was by far their best.

Today, I find this car really nice and attractive, lots of potential to make a splendid and efficient model, and if I had to race a vintage car from that period, I would chose it instantly over many heavy lumps built with what was then available such as Kal-Kar frames fitted with those enormous and heavy Kemtron Wasp or Bronco motors. I am absolutely certain of its performance potential over most of what was on the shelves in January 1964 in kit form since no other car was sold assembled until months later. The car was fairly light with the wight in the right place, with plenty of inner space to fit more weight as required. A good set of tires and that thing should rock.

The price was also pretty high due to the hand labor necessary to drill the Jaguar base plates by hand over a fixture, then assemble the parts with rivets and bolts, then glue the main body parts.

#91 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 11:27 PM

No argument there.

It's just unfinished and shouldn't be called ready to run which is why they didn't advertise as ready to run and also why the magazine article that Don showed us (writer was being extremely generous btw) called it "almost ready" and "90% assembled".

Are we done now?
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#92 stevefzr

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 05:59 AM

I think that as the driver in it, it was simply painted over either a blue or green body.

Did the article actually say it was white? Shoot a yellow body through a yellow filter using B&W film and it looks white. Ditto for blue body and blue filter. Even without filters, you just pump up the exposure and it'll still look white. You just have to make sure your background is dark enough not to burn out. Don't spend a lot of time looking for a white body if it was just an overexposed pic of a yellow one!

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#93 stevefzr

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 06:04 AM

So is the Cox 2E RTR a genuine RTR? They came with a bag of parts, like side pods, radiators, etc., that had to be added on. I guess a lot of kids were in too much of a hurry to test them as these cars often turn up missing all the bagged parts.

Personally, if I bought a car advertised as RTR I wouldn't expect to have to do anything, not even stick decals on. In that respect, I'd have been happier with the Classic than any of the others.

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Stephen Corneille

#94 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 06:28 AM

I still say the Strombecker was the first sold as ready to run, no assembly required. A bag o' parts doesn't qualify as a ready to run. Regardless of whether it was designed to run on a home track, it could have been run on a commercial raceway out of the box, and I haven't seen a complete Manta Ray or an example of this Unique kit fully assembled yet.

Carry on with your argument; you both are wrong.

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#95 MrWeiler

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 06:49 AM

Well, maybe but you better read THIS... :)

Also there is this, the oldest surviving powered aircraft in the world, and the third to have been flown by Clement Ader. But the Wright bros will come a bit later with a better, more practical idea.

Posted Image

Looks like it may have been a tad bit unstable in yaw....
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#96 don.siegel

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:17 AM

... and pitch and roll too, not to mention rock.

Since I'm always arguing about this with my French clients (who believe that Ader really made the first powered flight), I asked the Smithsonian and they recommended a book by an English aviation historian called Charles Gibbs-Smith, who examines Ader's claims in great detail. Among other things, he points out that the control system on the plane used cranks that would have taken about 30 seconds to effectuate any significant difference... and that there was only one axis of control, not the three needed (from memory, may have some details wrong).

To get back to our point, the D-Jag is "ready to run", the rest is just details...

Another interesting fact: in the follow-up track test in the following issue of MC&T, which was very complimentary (of course...), the author does point out the one drawback, that the frame was riveted to the bottom of the body, and the body fused together! I believe the latter point was changed, at least for the kit, but not only is the D-Jag assembled - it couldn't be disassembled - so there!

BTW: just thought of something: the original Scalextric GP models were sold RTR in 1957, and they were about 1/27 scale, so they kind of count, too...

Cheers,

Don

#97 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:28 AM

Glad to see some other opinions!

Why don't we consider the numerous ready to run rolling chassis that were offered in the early '60s!

They would run around the track and just needed a few DETAILS. :laugh2:
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#98 TSR

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:38 AM

I still say the Strombecker was the first sold as ready to run, no assembly required.

Michael, you are wrong. The Strombecker Lotus RTR did not have its decals applied, they were on a sheet inside the cardboard display tray. According to Scott's new rules, it does not qualify as a RTR. :)

Looks like it may have been a tad bit unstable in yaw....

It was. Both this, the "Eole", the first powered airplane to ever leave the ground, and the "Avion 3" now in the Arts & Metiers museum in Paris, crash landed. Unlike the Wright bros airplane, they had no directional control.
But... they were the first!

Why don't we count the numerous ready to run rolling chassis that were offered in the early '60s!

Because they did not offer a "car" with a body, just a rolling chassis. Decals and a few cosmetic details are one thing, an entire body is quite different. Otherwise, a body kit according to your rule, could be a RTR, just add a chassis. I hope that you can see your illogical reasoning.

The same applies to full-size cars in a way. When the famous Porsche Carrera RS was issued in 1973, one of its most important devices, the duck tail, could not be purchased on the car, because of German regulations. It had to be installed by the customer after the purchase and was sold separately. So the Porsche could not, according to Scott, be a true ready to drive car.

#99 Prof. Fate

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:58 AM

Hi

Jairus, THANKS. I did that Jag in the pre-fad days. I replaced the two pole with the standard surplus USAF three-pole motors I was using back then.

I actually started with the 1/24 Strombecker Mercedes GP with the cheapo three-pole motor and the rail car set in about '59. I don't remember these being RTR, so much as a kit with options. I till have the Merc around somewhere and have been meaning to restore it. Soon, after, I read about slots and was frustrated with tripping over the rail when I lost it. The conversion was a simple pin with wipers that held me in good stead until I got back to the US in '63

One of the first things I got was the seven buck Dynamic roller for DC60s which I crammed under the 1/32(?) Strombecker Jag.

Anyway, there were a lot of on base club tracks that I played on in the day. And the standard car for most of us was a 1/24 Merit with an early 703/4 in them. When the Lindberg Jag came out, I was unimpressed in that it was so "last year" in my circles! A real commercial track had opened, the 704 was not competitive and my 36Ds were already getting rewound to the max!

My Lindberg Jag conversion disappeared decades ago, and I haven't looked for another.

You may now resume your conflict!

Fate
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#100 Electric Dream Team

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 11:18 AM

I propose that a spread sheet be compiled that would include all candidates for the first RTR with columns that show any realistic reasons why it would not qualify or what the shortcomings where for each one.

Having a foreign made part is not realistic IMHO as long as the majority of the car was manufactured in US by a US company.
Most other comments in this thread would be valid.

We could keep the spreadsheet on the LASCM site and update it as new info surfaces!
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