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Prop-powered Batmobile?


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#1 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:54 AM

Well... you might say that!

Posted Image

While attending a Penn/Ohio Retro race @ Rt.93 Raceway, John Humberger knows how much Mr.Frank loves Thingies so he brought along this marvelous piece to show and tell. I wish at this point and time that I could recall his name? (the builder),but I met so many people and old age is catching up that I've forgotten his name,but not to worry, soon as I find out. The credit will be given.

Onto the bat cave...

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reason for Edit: John Humberger

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#2 slotcarone

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:00 AM

:D Did he put it on the track? How did it run? Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!

Mike Katz

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#3 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:08 AM

Hi Mike,
We did not get to see this car run.
Reason being, the power was not turned on at the drag track. It will not fit under the bridge on the king.

When I was talking with John He said it does run, and during first design proto-type stages, the car done a back flip and the prop whacked him across the knuckles! :laugh2:

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#4 Duffy

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:10 AM

With reverse-polarity braking, MAYBE--

And he oughta turn the prop around. He's got it on backwards.

Duffy
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#5 One_Track_Mind

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:25 AM

Hi Duffy,

Yea, I don't know much about the mechanics of the car other then looking at it? If the prop is on backwards, maybe it is? for a reason...we will have to address these concerns to him.

It is kinda neat though hugh?...John said he got the idea from a swamp ride buggy thing? what are they called? Air Boats?

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#6 havlicek

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:56 AM

:) I built a prop-driven slot car in the 60's using a regular Mabuchi motor in an inline configuration (no gears and no body either) with the motor angling up towards the rear. It went around the track once with absolutely zero brakes at a slow speed and that was that.

-john
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#7 Brian

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:46 PM

I was told yesterday that it runs 18mph down the drag strip.
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#8 Jairus

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:08 PM

Hmmm... seems like a cool proxy race idea to me! ;)

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#9 endbelldrive

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:12 PM

Oh yaaahhh...I've got to build a prop car too! :man_in_love:
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#10 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:04 PM

Wow! Here's something I've done before!
Twice, even!

First time was in the 60s. We called them "Propmobiles". :wacko2:
I remember attaching a 1 1/2 Volt dry cell battery to my brake line to get the propeller to spin backwards to help slow down at the end of the straights :laugh2:

propmobile.jpg
propmobile2.jpg

Then again in the 80s. That's my experimental twin-motor UFO from Area 51, against Foamy's (Dennis Hill) champion RC motor "Bladerunner" rail car at Valley Raceway in Rosemead, CA. Maybe foamy remembers how fast we went. He did this a bunch, while I was the impostor from Las Vegas. :tease:

BladeRunners.jpg

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#11 Jairus

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:15 PM

So fastest lap motivated only via propeller power is the winner huh? I got one of those Havlicek piano wire wound arms that is just screaming for this project!

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#12 Bill from NH

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:19 PM

:) I built a prop-driven slot car in the 60's using a regular Mabuchi motor in an inline configuration (no gears and no body either) with the motor angling up towards the rear. It went around the track once with absolutely zero brakes at a slow speed and that was that.

-john


John, it probably just needed a hotter arm! :laugh2: A prop-powered gokart would be pretty nice if you could find a JK body.

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#13 DirtyHairy

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:32 PM

yes!!!!! was a very interesting lookin car, and tried to get him to run the oval, but as was said these cars have very little (if any) brakes..... but it looked very well built and designed , so A+ sir
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#14 havlicek

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:33 PM

John, it probably just needed a hotter arm! A prop-powered gokart would be pretty nice if you could find a JK body.

:laugh2: I guess Bill. Honestly, I think key is getting the right prop (lotsa blade and steep pitch)...and a serious motor. If you nuts get a race together, I'll be on someone's team and supply a motor :) Oh...and no drags, these things should have to be able to go around a track. How long before someone comes up with an electronic clutch-type brake system where the inline gears would normally go ? :shok:

-john
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#15 Jairus

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:50 PM

BRAKES?

We don't need no stinking BRAKES!!!! :aggressive:

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#16 Jairus

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:03 PM

Okay, if you will indulge me for a few....

I believe with enough downforce and a low CG there will be no need for brakes. Rear tires are soft rubber for good side to side traction, freewheeling of course. Prop rpm's only need be 1/3rd the speed of the motor for additional torque. John is right however about the prop being critical...
... gotta' look for the right prop!
Posted Image
B)

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#17 Pablo

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:31 PM

Duffy, the rotation looks correct to my eyes - please explain ?
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#18 havlicek

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:05 PM

Jairus,

Does your mind ever stop working so hard? :) I think your drive arrangement is actually a really good way to do this...if anyone were so inclined :shok: You definitely have to have the motor in front of the rear wheels to avoid wheelies and your arrangement just sorta looks workable. Heck, the body you stuck in there even looks like it would be a good candidate. A long piece of .078 piano wire with a bushing on either end to carry both the prop and the spur gear and you've got a workable car (as long as you can find the right prop). Here's some 2.5" pusher props...but they look fragile and the plastic would have to be fastened to the shaft with jamb nuts
Posted Image

Here's some nicer looking pusher props of around 4.3" for $4.50
Posted Image

...maybe for some extra "oomph", you could use a helicopter tail rotor blade :) . Bigger blade area in a shorter prop. Here's a 4" one for $3

After the race, the thing could do double duty as a food processor. :shok:

-john

PS...for some reason the pictures won't show, but Tower Hobbies has a pretty good selection :)
John Havlicek

#19 Jairus

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:18 AM

John,
Good ideas there. Tower Hobbies was my first stop but I would rather hit the Hobby Shop first. Looking for a prop no larger than 3". Reasons are that the bridge clearance is about 4.5 inches and I want to try and keep the car at least legal width and pass under the bridge.

A Helocopter rotor blade is not very efficient. It pushes only enough air to counteract torque and work as a rudder. I think something like you suggest, large surface area, is the best solution. Also considering counter-rotating blades so that will require finding two props with equal cross-sections but opposite rotations. The current layout keeps the gearbox down with a low CG and duel shafts running up to the back. I was hoping to use my Carbon Fiber shaft but with countra rotating props... will require a shaft in a shaft with ball bearings inside and out! Otherwise the friction will kill before it gets off the bench! Still in the planning phaze with too many other projects ahead of this one to start building. Just spit balling at this time.

Oh... and I also want a pair of rudders behind the blade(s) connected to the guide to help steer the craft through the turns. I believe this will eliminate the need for any brakes.

J

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#20 Mr. Frank

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:34 AM

O K GUYS; :yes: Saw johns ride at the shop but he showed it to me about a year or so ago. I think it's time to BUILD... :dance4: LOOK OUT. Boy this is gona be FUN... :yahoo: Thanks john, I will be bringing mine to bears next month.. O- YEA , time to craft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW TO FIND A BODY. Off to k-mart.. Mr. Frank
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#21 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:59 AM

If anyone chooses to go with dual propellers, I used props from a Cox .10 engine.

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#22 Duffy

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 06:31 PM

Duffy, the rotation looks correct to my eyes - please explain ?

Rotation's fine, it's the orientation of the prop. Look closely at the photos: you can see a camber to the blades, a convex curve on one side and a flat or hollowness on the other. for this application, the hollow side should be on the rear and the humpy side should look forward. This is the "right" way to use the prop for max lift (or thrust or whatever--model flyers argue terms all the time and the language of props is fuzzy).

Duffy
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#23 proptop

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 07:21 PM

Cool idea B)

Check out the APC brand of propellers (Tower has 'em)
The "E" and "SF" series are specifically designed for electric power.
The "SF" or Slow Flyer have a highly cambered and thinner airfoiled blade designed for max. efficiency at lower r.p.m. (around 10K or less) but I don't think they have one small enough for what youze guys might need?

The "E" series are designed for substantially more powerful motors on faster models and will take much higher r.p.m. and they have 'em in smaller diameters. Maybe some of the props for "Speed 400" motors will work for you, seeing as you're using gear reduction?

GWS also makes a good (thin, light and efficient) elec. prop...and they're cheap so you can experiment with different diameters and pitches w/o spending a lot.

Props that were originally designed to work on glow engines aren't all that good on an elec. motor...they are unnecessarily heavy and thicker blades absorb too much power with less thrust in return.

I've been flying R/C with electric power for about 10 years...
Started w/ brushed motors and Ni/Cd's and now with brushless motors and Li/Po and Li/Ion batteries...amazing developments in the past several years! B) :D
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#24 Jairus

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 08:39 PM

:D Hmmmmm, thanks for the info Tom! (Jairus happier now)

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#25 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 08:51 PM

Gr8 info, Tom!
The advances of electric powered flight has brought a wealth of availability not seen in the 80's when I last built mine.

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#26 Jairus

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:09 PM

Tower Hobbies delivered a new propeller today. Very aggressive pitch and looks powerful standing still for only 4" diameter. Not going to complicate this build by adding contra-rotating propellers just yet. Shooting for simple the first time out and work up from there.
Posted Image
Also decided to use an old Mura Gp 20 to power this one.
B)

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#27 gascarnut

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:24 PM

Has anyone thought of trying one of these:

Posted Image

2" diameter with a 3mm shaft hole, made for electric power ducted fan flying. I guess this might work a bit?

The nice part about them is they are designed to work at very high speeds, typically 30,000 rpm and upwards, bolted straight onto the shaft of a brushless motor, so a Gp 20 with 3:1 gearing or so would really wind them up.

And they sound so cool too.......

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#28 Jairus

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 09:59 AM

Dennis, I wanted to do a Duct Fan originally. Seems more efficient than a two blade prop thrashing away in the wind. But I never found a good fan for sale on Tower Hobbies. Whole units yes, but not just a fan. Besides the clearances are tight and retro fitting might be harder than building a correct Retro Jail Door chassis... :rolleyes:

So I decided to go the simplest route for the first time out.
However, could you please post a link to the one you found?
Thanks.

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#29 Foamy

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:33 PM

Then again in the 80s. That's my experimental twin-motor UFO from Area 51, against Foamy's (Dennis Hill) champion RC motor "Bladerunner" rail car at Valley Raceway in Rosemead, CA. Maybe foamy remembers how fast we went. He did this a bunch, while I was the impostor from Las Vegas. :tease:

BladeRunners.jpg


Posted Image

Hey, somebody got a picture of my heap! The drag strip at Valley was not very good. It had the wrong paint on it for traction, and it had no timing system. The local kooks started making air cars for giggles. The popular motor came from a Makita cordless drill. I saw this and thought to myself "this is going to be shooting fish in a barrel". Had that dragster sitting around, had a Big Jim modified R/C motor, added one cox prop on a Astro Flight adaptor, and had my way with them. The car had a roar that sounded like the Hounds Of Hell were chasing you. . .

. . . about a year later somebody (Guy?) came up with a real light machine that had 2 group 20 motors and small hand made props. Real low CG, the thing crushed me into the ground.

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#30 gascarnut

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:06 PM

However, could you please post a link to the one you found?


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#31 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:47 PM

Well Jairus got it right... OSHA must have told him it had to have a prop shroud! :laugh2: :laugh2: Looks cool! DO IT!

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#32 Cop Cake

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:49 PM

Dennis, I wanted to do a Duct Fan originally. Seems more efficient than a two blade prop thrashing away in the wind. But I never found a good fan for sale on Tower Hobbies. Whole units yes, but not just a fan. Besides the clearances are tight and retro fitting might be harder than building a correct Retro Jail Door chassis... :rolleyes:

So I decided to go the simplest route for the first time out.
However, could you please post a link to the one you found?
Thanks.



I was thinking the design of the prop on an "Alligator Boat" would provide the right thrust. This one is obviously too tall, but........

Alligator Swamp Boat
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#33 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 08:36 PM

Posted Image

Hey, somebody got a picture of my heap! The drag strip at Valley was not very good. It had the wrong paint on it for traction, and it had no timing system. The local kooks started making air cars for giggles. The popular motor came from a Makita cordless drill. I saw this and thought to myself "this is going to be shooting fish in a barrel". Had that dragster sitting around, had a Big Jim modified R/C motor, added one cox prop on a Astro Flight adaptor, and had my way with them. The car had a roar that sounded like the Hounds Of Hell were chasing you. . .

. . . about a year later somebody (Guy?) came up with a real light machine that had 2 group 20 motors and small hand made props. Real low CG, the thing crushed me into the ground.


Same Guy!

Those motors were a mismatched pair of Trinity cobalt motors. An Infinity and a DBX, both running some worn out 27 arms. Running at different RPMS, the car made a blood-curdling shriek when it blew down the track. The propellers were from Cox .010 engines

I've been keeping a secret, all these years, until now, Foamy!

I was taking the hole-shot because you were running foam tires on the back that were just sticking to the glue, while my big "O" ring rear tires rolled through! -_-

Here's the man, feverishly trying to adjust the timing to get a little more out of that RC motor :unsure:
Foamy_small.jpg

Those were the days, my friend
Valley_Raceway_small.jpg !

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#34 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 08:56 PM

Ok lets see... pic has Guy in it, Gerry Gustin, Frank Baldozer and myself at the counter.... I think the guy to the left is MR. Boolaman Gil Gunderson????? Yep those were the days of So Cal USRA when we had big entries!

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"BRONCO" BARNEY
Team CORT!

Hello my name is Barney and I was... I am addicted to glue, magnets, and wings... I have been clean and sober years now... NOW I'm hooked on 1/32 club track racing! Dang!
 

"Even if you're on the Right Track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!"

If you remember
screw-on braid, motors that look like padlocks, that dang fuse wire in Cox controllers, "hand" painted bodies, the very first can motors from Mabuchi, and the smell of wintergreen then you are OLD!... like me!

Enjoy life! Race Slot Cars and read SlotBlog!


#35 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 09:13 PM

And everything was cool with Joe at the helm!
Valley.jpg

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#36 macman

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 09:37 AM

Hey Barney... Did you have hair back then??? You were sure missing a bunch in '90 when I met you in Atlanta... :laugh2:

Nice to see you guys back then, but what became of the hot-pants babe behind the counter??? ;) ;)
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#37 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 09:53 AM

That's Joe's wife in the foreground, his mother in the background. That may even be Tore way in the back. Barney should be able to shed more light on this one :D

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#38 macman

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 10:04 AM

& I guess it was Joe's raceway...
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#39 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 10:52 AM

Yea, he owned Valley Raceway in Rosemead.

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#40 Superbird

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 01:21 AM

Prop power sounds OK but Rockets are better, I can assure you! Back in the day on my basement strip we used Estes rockets to power slot cars. Strip power lit the igniters and away they went! The speed and sound were impressive although technically, probably not as fast as normal rail cars. The real excitement was provided by the eject charges going off after the car was buried in the stopping silk. Of course, we were prepared to put any flames out quickly. Between that and fire burnouts our strip was never dull.  


Pete Shreeves

#41 don.siegel

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:10 AM

I don't know, kinda like the prop-powered cars. Here's one from back in the day - a short experiment in a production model, with maybe four made that we know of... And for the braking issue, it's got solenoid powered brakes! 

Don 

 

Aircar2.jpg

 

Aircar3.jpg


  • Maximo, miko and CoastalAngler1 like this

#42 Jairus

Jairus

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:01 AM

Dang if you guys are not going to get me back on that project now!
:to_become_senile:


Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

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Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!






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