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Building the JK C11 1/24 chassis


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#1 Cheater

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 11:52 PM

I have to offer my apologies to everyone. I've had these PDFs for quite some time, thanks to Andy Brown-Searle, who sent them to me and invited me to post them here.

But they were bigger than 2MB, which made them too big to upload to Slotblog. I finally figured out how to convert them to smaller, uploadable files. So here they are, even if they're late.

These are excellent building guides for these chassis. Read them closely!

There are two guides, one for the 1/24 two-piece C11, and the other for the 1/32 version. The terms Andy used are X24 and X32.

This first thread will show the 1/24 chassis building tips.

x24_build_sheets.1.jpg
x24_build_sheets.2.jpg
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Gregory Wells

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#2 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:23 AM

Do you have any tips that apply specifically to the X11 three-piece chassis that are not used in the two-piece.

Much thanks!

Guy

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#3 Cheater

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:44 AM

Guy,

I don't but maybe your question will encourage racers to post any tips they might have.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#4 Dominator

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:53 AM

I basically used the same steps for the three-piece.
A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#5 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:55 AM

Excellent post, Greg. This little tome pretty well covers all the aspects of setup on the JX24.

I do want to add a couple of things. Unless you are running on a completely flat track, do not attempt to adjust the rear pan lift by bending the center pan bridge. Adjust the pan lift by moving the outer pan locators only. If your track is bumpy, or has elevation change or a bank like a hillclimb, bending this center bridge can cause too much pan float.

If running on a hillclimb or banked track, you may also want to make sure the chassis is flat in front of the motor box, otherwise you may have some bottoming out due to G forces if set up concave like the tome suggests. Like I said, that slight concave works well on a flat track, but not on a high speed bank.

Other than those two minor changes, and maybe adding a Slick 7 EDM cross brace in the back, its a dream to set up and run. The EDM crossbrace stiffens it up slightly in the rear, but that can be compensated for by varying your tire compound used.

I love this chassis, probably even more so than the three piece.

Michael Rigsby
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#6 Dominator

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 10:31 AM

I agree with you, Mike, on the rear pan lift. I will bend the back of the pan just behind the rear body mounts up slightly to eliminate any drag when the tires start to get low.

Another thing I will do is add some tape or even some solder onto the center section ribs for the bit bar to raise it up if the pans seem to be hanging too low.
A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#7 Noose

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 08:29 PM

Has anyone set one of these up for IRRA Flexi GT yet? I have and made some observations but want to hear what others have to say.

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#8 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:18 PM

Noose,

Back some time ago when we were starting to run Flexi retro here in Florida before the advent of GRR, there were some races run that specified IRRA rules. At the first race run here in Jacksonville most folks ran the two piece Cheetah 7s or old Turbo-Flex chassis, I chose to run the X24 or two-piece Cheetah 11.

Using a .047" front axle, and JK 5/8" front wheels with narrowed hubs and some O-ring replacement tires on the front rims I found at Ace hardware, I was able to get my front end clearance that I needed with the guide off. The only thing I noted about the car, is that the front wheels were noisy when rolling, but other than that, the car handled very, very well. I lost the main by about a lap or so I think mainly because I kept running into other peoples crashes. Now this was running on a hillclimb track, and I used the setup I described above with an IRRA legal Chevron B16 body. The car handled like a dream and I was 12/36 gearing on a Falcon 7 (brakes... what brakes?).

Now on a flat track, I would naturally gear differently, but I don't think I would change the overall setup too much. The setup I used also did very, very well on a king track when I tried it. I since sold those two cars I had made to a member of this forum, and I hope he does well with them.

Michael Rigsby
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#9 Phil Irvin

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 11:10 PM

I have only played with one X24. I did the flat thing on both center and wing and triangled axle, set for .750" tire, to guide. When I put the two together. It had VERY little side to side and almost no up and down on the rear pan. I bent the center bite bar tabs so when ther bite bar is laying on the center strength ridges. It is in the lower part of the hole.

It was much better but I played with the tabs more giving about .030" side to side play and the front the same on both side to side and up and down. I like to set mine up loose in case of lots of glue and it is very fast eather way now. :wub:

Both two and three piece are fast when set up right... FOR YOU... Can be fast and fairly easy to drive. But when not... :dash2:

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#10 Mike Walpole

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 09:11 AM

Has anyone set one of these up for IRRA Flexi GT yet? I have and made some observations but want to hear what others have to say.


OVRR ran the Flexi GT class last year but dropped it this year. Tom Thumb still runs the class on alternate Saturdays. We run a local Flexi class using 16Ds and GT1 bodies. Plus, we did some testing with the Falcon 7 motors in the cars this week. We'll probably let both motors run together as both motors turn similar lap times.

We've has the best luck with the two-piece chassis with a .055" axle and the plastic 5/8" O-ring wheels. I've run three-piece chassis that were just as fast, but they don't seem to be as consistent. The Coupe body with a spoiler handles similar to a GT1 body and turns similar lap times.

#11 SlowToyCars

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:29 PM

Greg, if you can assist with some photo work, I will expound with my knowledge, what you have started here...
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#12 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 01:50 PM

Just found this post... now I gotta read it.   

Can't keep up with all the X, C, 11 2piece, 3 piece 24, 25 nomenclature ...

 

So ... this is a Gator Built-Florida rules three piece mix and match .030 C/D can big hole center section w/ .025 pans.

Trying this combo as a compromise between strength and weight.

 Uses .050" SS tube front axle and large head body pins as wheel retainers.

 No solder design makes pan disassembly fast and easy to keep chassis parts flat...  for the 3 piece it's a brilliant idea.

 

 

IMG_3316s.jpg

 

IMG_3318.JPG


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#13 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 07:35 AM

Thank You Gator Bob!  This racer was built for ME  :victory:  She weighs in at 86.8 grams with body and tires  :good: Now where's that darn camera...


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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:32 PM

Glad you like it Charlie,

 It sure got a 'look over' at the track.  

 

..... "Tricks are for kids"


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#15 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 10:19 PM

Yes, her unveiling caused quite a stir at The Raceway.

Chassis by Gator Bob!  

Body by Race Pace, Bill Pinch!

She got tested at the private track, kept coming off in only one corner.  

Found the body was needing a trim down low, now she's ready for hillclimb testing!

 

RACER REAR.jpg

 

star1.jpg

 

racer money.jpg


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#16 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 08:15 AM

Charlie,

 

Very nice looking car. One thing I will recommend is to solder on a JK guide tongue brace.  This is a weak spot on this particular center section, moreso than the .025 center section.  I use this exact setup on my NASCAR racers, and my LMP/GT1 cars, and trust me, that guide tongue brace will save your bacon more than once. My GTP cars I tend to use a .025/.025 setup for pure speed.

 

I'm taking that is a Big Dog arm in the Hawk 6 setup, or is that a stock arm? And using the Camen/Cahoza spur gear is a good choice.  Since switching to those I have not stripped one out by being involved in a collision involving a sudden stop. The ProSlot gears would do that repeatedly in such instances.

 

Again, nice sanitary build. :clapping:


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#17 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:22 AM

Thanks Michael, this is my first sharpened weapon - first real racer, honored to receive help from Gator Bob and Bill Pinch and Terry Tawney always spends a few minutes when I ask specific questions. Love that 'pure speed' comment, getting there soon hopefully.  :yes:

 

Stock Arm, blueprinted motor by Alpha then given the Gator treatment. :ph34r: Bodies to get sponsor decals before 2015 race season.  Learning fast, but got a long way to go...  I need practice to join the Florida My Series 2015, setups will get re-done for the classes when they're finalized. I think I got another amateur to join next year with me, that way will have an enduro partner.  We'll be homies at The Raceway. :crazy: 

 

More info about the GTB?  looked on jkproducts.com and know what it looks like - pics on a car? 


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#18 Gator Bob

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:59 PM

MB,

Thanks for the comps., I built the car as a MySeries - GT1 with a stock arm. That is what Charlie asked for.... not sure why the GTP body is on it.

 

Charlie,

I purposely left the guide tongue brace off as the car comes apart so easy to check straightness....and ....because you are going to 'keep it in the slot'. 

If you bend it and straighten the tongue a few times (like 4-5) more than a couple of thousandths then consider adding a 'heavy' steel tongue brace as the .030 coined riser metal will get soft.

 

TonyP and I ran that center in an endure at Bill Pinch's... un-braced tongue worked out fine.

 

 


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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:14 PM

If you use the guide tongue brace, you won't bend & have to straighten it 4 or 5 times. Some call that preventive maintenance. :D


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#20 Gator Bob

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:26 PM

If you use the guide tongue brace, you won't bend & have to straighten it 4 or 5 times. Some call that preventive maintenance. :D

 

What's a hen weigh? :clapping:


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#21 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 04:58 PM

Your not going to bend the .030 centers tongue with brace properly installed if the job is done using a new center and new brace.
Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
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#22 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:28 PM

 

What's a hen weigh? :clapping:

 

That depends how big the hen is. :laugh2:   Question. When do you add air to your tires? When a tire looks like it could be a little low? When the tire is flat?


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#23 Gator Bob

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 09:17 PM

Your not going to bend the .030 centers tongue with brace properly installed if the job is done using a new center and new brace.

I've heard that trick but I'm not driving it.    :secret:  :huh:     

 

 

  Question. When do you add air to your tires? When a tire looks like it could be a little low? When the tire is flat?

    :prankster2:    ... Both :friends:


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#24 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:41 PM

I will continue to blueprint my own flexi chassis. :to_become_senile:


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#25 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:41 AM

I will continue to blueprint my own flexi chassis. :to_become_senile:

Blueprint, or bulletproof?  A hen with an egg ready should weigh heavier.  Copycats are much lighter - they take on different body shape sometimes too.  (Didn't get the GT-1 body yet)   


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#26 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 01:52 PM

What I made was just a suggestion from my previous race experiences using this center section for the last few years, it's not a word of law. Was just trying to pass on some "learned the hard way" experience on to a new racer.   I find myself getting involved in other peoples on track messes more than normal, and Rollin always told me my cars had built in Lexan magnets.

 

If you can drive one and not need the brace, I'm happy for you cause that's a couple grams less weight. Me, I do it 'cause I know I'm gonna be in someone else's "happening" and I prefer not to lose laps straightening a chassis during a race. Those "other peoples happenings" have  cost me a few wins and podiums in My Series races the last few years.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#27 Gator Bob

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:05 PM

I hear ya MB...

 

Charlie wanted an 'ultra-lite' but since he is (we are) still learning I thought the .030 center would suit him better.

 

The car is very 'user friendly' as the whole car can be disassembled in 30 seconds with no soldering iron .. down to two pans and a center-section with only the motor and lead wires left. One tool - nut driver.

 

  • Drive
  • Bend
  • Straighten
  • Repeat

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#28 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:11 PM

Blueprint, or bulletproof?  

 

Both. When I blueprint a flexi, if legal, I bulletproof the guide, guide tongue area & the rear uprights.


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:34 PM

Charlie, if you want something lighter in weight, here is the link to my recent 69 gram GTP car build.  I didn't research the rules you race under, so I'm not advocating my build over any other - just thought there may be some tips and methods you could use here:

http://slotblog.net/...lexi-gtp-build/

 

The fastest flexi car drivers nowadays use thin JK chassis.  At every single lane change they immediately rip the body off, put it back in the slot, check to see where it's tweaked, and re-tweak it back into place as needed.  My lightweight GTP in that thread has a tongue brace, but some national caliber racers will tell you those chassis will just bend in a different location when the tongue is stiffened - the tongue is easy to diagnose when it's bent, but once you start bending things abaft of it, it gets really tricky. Not sayin' "don't brace", just sayin'....... 


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#30 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:45 AM

Charlie,

You see how the guide angle is set now, if you bend it bend the damn thing back ... you need to learn this stuff too if you want to beat Danny. :clapping:

it is a solid compromise of reasonable weight and strength for a newbie. I have no regrets for not bracing the tongue, it was thought through .. it's part of the training.  

 

It's all good advice on here but don't get your head all filled up, stick to the plan.

  • Set guide flag spacer/front ride height on the short straight 3ft. before the lap counter on The Hillclimb.
  • Have Bill mount you a my-Series legal GT-1 body.
  • Run 50-75 laps starting at about 50% up to like 80%
  • Check rear axle play, oil car, note any build up of gunk on the wings and/or pans.
  • Give to Terry, Doc, Matt, Dennis, Bill, Steve .... guys that can really get around that track, say "go for it".
  • Report
  • Discuss Tune
  • Retest

 

Note: If you start messing with it and it sucks it's on you. :laugh2:


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#31 bluecars

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:35 AM

:) Absolutely, if you are going to run J.K. chassis (I run them a lot) you are. going to have to learn to check and do little tweaks between heats. If not, you will start out great then wonder what happened. :victory:


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:31 AM

Once that tongue gets tilted down, it's all exponentially downhill from there :dash2: :laugh2:


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#33 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:56 AM

Thanks Gator Bob, will stick to the plan, tonight ordering the GT-1 body and paint work from Race Pace.  I definitely will learn how to check the chassis between heats and follow orders on your build/mentoring!  Thanks Red and Pablo - keep sharing those points!

 

Already at the private track on Saturday nites' run what u brung flexi races, folks ask me to check their car when it starts running poorly - its almost always a bent chassis center, pans, or tongue and I tweak for them - practicing for the sharpened weapons!  I see them try to tweak with the body still attached after I've showed them and I yell, "hey, gimme that - I'll fix it for ya."  

 

BTW - Terry Tawney is the coolest pro racer!  I hope he reads this!  He is at the track each night we newbies run 5.5 races - as a marshall - and mentors everyone who asks!!!  The Raceway is lucky to have him.  The newbies don't even realize what Terry's history and accomplishments are...he's a past national champion several times.  


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#34 SlowBeas

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:08 AM

Charlie,

 

Here in SC, we've had the opportunity to race with Terry a few times when he'd make the trip up here -- quite a trip, btw. Friendly guy, nice to race with. But he'd be more fun if he'd let me beat him once in a while. The guy is fast! :shok:

 

Best of luck, and give our regards to Terry, too.

jb


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#35 Danny Zona

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:23 AM

Terry T, is a great racer. He has shared information with me over the many years I've raced with him. He has helped me and many others become better racers.
KellyRacing
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I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#36 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:29 AM

Once that tongue gets tilted down, it's all exponentially downhill from there :dash2: :laugh2:

 

Once any tongue gets tilted down, it's all exponentially downhill from there  :dash2:  :laugh2:


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#37 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 12:03 PM

Add one more pro racer to the 'very helpful' list, Matt Bowman. :good:

 

Matt showed up last night for the 5.5 races - to race! (Terry T was in his pit, most everyone was oblivious cause they're so new, I thought my podium chances were shot)  That guy can work on cars quickly.  He soldered 6 motors multiple times with different gear sets to get one of his flexis to slow down. :laugh2:  What a treat to watch, learned a lot about soldering motors, he was willing to tell me the do's, dont's, and why's, but ahem, I beat him.  I bet Matt won't let that happen again hahahaha.  Pros have a tough time slowing down, they even de-slot.  I did however get a perfectly timed nerf from Matt...and I liked it!  :crazy:

 

The pros at The Raceway don't use tongue braces...I'm still learning! 


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#38 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 12:00 PM

:) Absolutely, if you are going to run J.K. chassis (I run them a lot) you are. going to have to learn to check and do little tweaks between heats. If not, you will start out great then wonder what happened. :victory:

Hey Red - I need a good pit man... :good:

 

Time for 2 new chassis setups, I got the parts...and the motors graciously built by ?

...c11 ultralight gt-1 DocHawk6, and GetSome sponsored c11 ultralight gtp Billy Big Dog Pinch coming soon. 


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#39 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 09:29 PM

Still waiting on the GTP motor...but I'm ready to practice MySeries cars in Jax tomorrow!

 

RoLLMP and DocHawk -

Rollin made me a C-11 w/ .030 center and .025 pans that the boyz run in Jax;

I jigged a C-11 .025/.025 and Doc doctored up the Hawk6:

 

Twins LMP Money.jpg

 

LMP Twins 1-31-2015.jpg

 

 


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#40 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 04:36 PM

See, the Doc Hawk is going to be faster.... :)


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GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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#41 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 07:41 PM

Nothing wrong with the .025/.025 chassis in this class. Ran it for a long tome and saves about 3 grams of weight. But I got tired of so many bent up chassis because it seemed like everyone always ended parking their cars in the middle of my lane, so I went to the .030/.025 setup.It handles just as well and is more forgiving in a wreck, provided the tongue is braced. Pretty sure the existing track record is using this setup.
"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#42 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 08:06 PM

X25 with 025 pans is slightly heavier but is almost always faster.
Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
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#43 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 09:29 PM

The DocHawk is fast! :ph34r: (but not for Jax I'm afraid)  The RoLLMP acts like it has magnets.  :shok:  Nice to meet Michael Rigsby and Johnny today, thanks go to Eddie who tuned my Gator NASCAR chassis  :good: Now if only I could drive like Nathan...that Jax track is Sweet!  Track is getting cleaned tomorrow.


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#44 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 09:46 PM

X25 with 025 pans is slightly heavier but is almost always faster.

But not everyone can drive the X25 chassis as it tends to be a little bit more squirelly unless you have fantastic reaction times.  I have built two, tried them, they are fast,but very twitchy on our hillclimb and I was faster with the .030/.025 Cheetah 11 in every case. 


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#45 Danny Zona

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 10:18 PM

0n the Jacksonville track I like the .025-.030 with .025 pans in nascar. I like the 9mm with .025 pans in gtp. Just my preference.
KellyRacing
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I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#46 dalek

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:29 AM

Danny Zona, on 01 Feb 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

 

0n the Jacksonville track I like the .025-.030 with .025 pans in nascar.

 

________________________________________________________

 

Danny,

 

Which center section are you referring to when you say ".025-.030"?

 

 


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#47 Danny Zona

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 09:06 AM

The JK Cheetah 11.
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KellyRacing
R-GEO

I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#48 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 09:59 AM

Hey Dale - all the Jax guys like the .030 c-11 center w .025 pans on that 'Fastest HIllclimb in the South' - that's what Rollin and Johnny built for the RoLLMP above.  When I tested yesterday, .030 center section cars ran better for me.  We run similar times - can't wait to race with you! 


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#49 dalek

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 11:38 PM

Thanks, Danny.

 

Charlie,

 

Looking forward to more racing with you too.  I'm redoing all of my cars for this coming Saturday to try to be more competitive.  I just PM'd Rollin to find out what gearing I should run in a GTP with H-6 with Big Dog arm.

 

I ran C-21 chassis in both NASCAR and GTP in the last My Series races.  I'll be running the .030 chassis now.


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