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Points... to be or not to be?


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#1 Roho21

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:30 PM

We would like to hear from Retro racers around the country. Let us know what you think.

Roger Holtsclaw





#2 Rick

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:42 PM

I think retro needs a bounty on Hershman at Columbus! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
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#3 Dan Ebert

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:50 PM

Give me the pink car, I got the mills Rick !!!!

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#4 Noose

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:02 PM

We have run a points series now for 3 years and it has been fun. I'm sure our guys here will attest it's close and at the end the prizes are very good.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#5 Roho21

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:04 PM

I am liking what I am hearing! I like points too! :D

Roger Holtsclaw


#6 Rick

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:34 PM

Roger,

Seriously, racers always like points series. throw in some quirks, like double points races etc. Track with most entries gets Chamionship race.............
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#7 68Caddy

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:15 PM

I like it, ;) but it means we have to travel to make it interesting and that way the home advantage will be less then normal. :rolleyes:

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#8 Rick Crutchfield

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:43 PM

What about the reverse points system? You start with 5 points for last place in a class, then add 5 for each place all the way up to first. Makes the winner of the race with 20 entries earn more points than a winner of race with less entries. Give us your thoughts. Roger and I have talked on different ways to do a points series

Rick Crutchfield


#9 Rick

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 12:05 AM

Rick, we always used a 12 point system.

12 to win
11- 2nd
10 -3rd and so on to 4 points being lowest amount.

But are you running: everybody runs a main, Semis/Mains, qualifying? Round robins?
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#10 Roho21

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 12:09 AM

It would be everybody runs a main, all results merge, then as Rick C. said, 5 pts for last adding 5 each position up, thereby making a win over 20 racers more valuable than a win over 7.

Roger Holtsclaw


#11 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 07:38 AM

It would be everybody runs a main, all results merge, then as Rick C. said, 5 pts for last adding 5 each position up, thereby making a win over 20 racers more valuable than a win over 7.


I don't live in your area nor race Retro, but philosophically, I absolutely hate the idea of a sliding points scale based on entries. A win should count the same no matter how many entries.

NASCAR learned this lesson "back-in-the-day." There was a time when NASCAR awarded more points for the "Big" races. The Wood Brothers were the masters of finishing well in the final points standings by cherry-picking the races they wanted to enter and then putting all of their efforts into those "Big" races. A win at Daytona was more valuable than a win at some of the smaller venues of the day. So, why bother to go to a less-important race?

In slots, Let's say there's bad weather for a particular race resulting in a small turnout. Why should the speed-crazed morons that fought the elements be penalized points-wise because other racer's Mommies wouldn't let them go out and play?

Plus, it over-rewards a home-track-advantage if your home track happens to attract the larger turnouts. And, it penalizes the racer that doesn't have a home track, yet travels to all of the tracks to support the series.

Additionally, it encourages racers to only attend races at the track that are more likely to have a large turnout instead of making an effort to attend as many races as possible.

Potentially worse ...... In your proposed points system, if Racer A has a narrow advantage it is to his advantage to encourage his friends NOT to enter a particular race to make it impossible for Racer B to move ahead of him. Or, the opposite .... Racer A is just slightly behind Racer B so he gets all of his buddies to come to an event to run a couple of laps and park the car so that his points potential is higher. Or worse, he has his buddies target Racer B to insure that B has a bad day.

Keep it easy.

Rollin Isbell
 


#12 Noose

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:01 AM

Our system is like this:

TQ (if you run qualifying) gets 1 point

1st = 20
2nd = 18
3rd = 16
then it goes down to 1 point for each place.

For guys moving up from a main to the next one, they get the points for where they eventually finish.

We then have throw outs for the a set number of races. For this year, we have 23 individual races counting for points and the lowest 10 points earned will be thrown out to determine the overall winner. So if someone does crummy in a race or misses an event it can be one of their throw outs.

We apply the same points earning scheme with no throw outs to the constructor's championship where the highest place finish by the builder's chassis gets the points. It a Tony P chassis wins and another one gets 2nd, Tony P would get 20 points. Whomever the builder was in 3rd would get 16 points - the assigned points for that position. The TQ point also counts in this this.

For each class run we count all the points - no throw outs. We have a class champ for the 4 points classes.

We also have a concours champ where the system goes 3 points for 1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd.

Has worked very well.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#13 tonyp

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:43 AM

The last 2 years the overall championship went down to the last race of the year... I like the throwaways because it keeps you in the hunt if you have a couple of disaster days or have to take the wife out.

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#14 Rick

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:06 AM

I have to agree with Rollin. A win is a win, reguardless of entry numbers. It would be too easy to "stack the deck" the other way. Most points system numbers will work fine. Drops are also a good idea to account for missed races or a bad race.
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#15 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:00 AM

I have to agree with Rollin. A win is a win, reguardless of entry numbers. It would be too easy to "stack the deck" the other way. Most points system numbers will work fine. Drops are also a good idea to account for missed races or a bad race.


For several years we ran a very successful points series in house. The series ran from October to April with a big party at the end. There was one drop per month and $2 from every entry went into the prize fund. Our best year saw us awarding almost $4000.00 in prizes / trophies (including the cost of the year end party).

The only problem I have with a points series is that when one of the top points positions becomes out of reach of the others many racers just stop racing. I guess they felt there was no reason to continue if winning the series was out of the question. On the other side of the coin a few racers didn't participate because they didn't want to "HAVE TO" make a season long commitment to racing. As hard as I tried to explain that the weekly races were the real program and the points series was just a bonus several were still put off by it.

After a couple years of this I came up with a new points system that REALLY worked to help the "out of reach" problem. I have always felt that first place is worth more than just one point more than second so our basic point system is:

1st - 20
2nd - 17
3rd - 15
4th - 14 (and on down by one point)

What I added was one point per lap completed for each racer. Now, if racer A was more than 20 ponts ahead of racer B going into the end if the series, racer A could still be beaten. In the seven seasons (six classes per season) that we used this system only ONCE in one class was any of the top series end points positions locked up before the very end. In fact we had a total of 10 or 11 photo finishes points wise. I can remember 3 times we had a two way tie (after over 3000 points awarded) and twice we had a three way tie for first place in points. Many others were decided by less than 10 points. The average spread amoung the top 10 spots was less than 100 points. With a single race having over 180 laps you can see how this system kept things close.
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#16 Roho21

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 06:46 PM

There will be throw out races for sure. We are discussing what system to use. This reverse system is what NASCAR uses now in it's weekly racing series to determine a national champion from all of their member tracks all over the country. Thereby allowing thousands of driver compete for a national championship. Keep the comments coming, you have got us thinking and everyone has valid points.

Roger Holtsclaw






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