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New JK Hawk motor talk!


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#1 slotcarjames

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 03:25 PM

Since there is so many people that would like to know more about this motor to include me I thought that I would start this post to provide a place for thought.

Some good questions would be, how does this motor compare to the falcon 7 and Puppy Dog and even the big dog in performance.

We know the PD is rated at 47,000 rpms and the Hawk is rated at 58,000 rpms. It has been said that the Hawk likes 4 to 4.5 to 1 gearing.

Also, JK has already made a new RTR car for the motor. Cheetah 11 GT1.

Please see attach file for JK flier!!!

Thank you and look forward to seeing what our slot car friends have to say about this new motor!!!

Attached Files


James Rorrer
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Since 1968




#2 team burrito

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 01:14 PM

Last night, I tried the Hawk motor in my Can-Am racer, geared at 7/28. It was bogging on SCR's blue king & acceleration was not so great, compared to the F7 & TSR motor. I would like to try 4.5 to 1 ratio, but it requires a 32T crown gear & I can barely fit a 30T right now. I'll try this motor in my Saturday night race car with 64P gear; I should get better results. Later on, dogs. ;)
Russ Toy (not Troy)
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#3 Mark Wampler

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:39 PM

I think the Hawk is better suited for flexi/spec racing. I dislike 7T pinions. F7/TSR motors are plenty enough power for Retro, IMO.
You can quote me.

-Mark

#4 Dominator

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:11 PM

I took a few laps with one tonight and I have to agree that it would really not be best suited for retro but in a flexi class would be ok. 64 pitch would be the option for gearing. The car I drove tonight was geared7/28 and it still barely had enough gear. Now if only someone made a angle 6 tooth piņon in 48 pitch that would be great!

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.

 

Dominic Luongo


#5 team burrito

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:56 PM

They do make a 6T pinion, but it's brass & wears out quickly. Better to stick with the F7's & TSR motors, but these may be the hot ticket for Retro-Pro cars. :rolleyes:
Russ Toy (not Troy)
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#6 CruzinBob

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 10:11 AM

And here's that handsome devil back then! TOA Convention ('94?)

Bob1a.jpg
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#7 Mopar Rob

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:06 PM

:rolleyes: Who Jim Hugger or Jerry :laugh2:
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#8 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:24 PM

Hugger with hair!!!!!!!!
John Austin

#9 Tex

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 11:17 AM

I've been told that the can bushing is magnetic; anyone else confirm this?
Richard L. Hofer

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#10 idare2bdul

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 02:42 PM

I did my first motor testing and I think the motor has promise. it broke in a little slower than a Falcon7. After break in I test at 5 volts. The Falcons usually test between 19000 to 20800 RPM. most clustered in the 19700 to 20000 RPM range. Amp draw is from .05 to .08. The JK motor turned 25000 RPM and pulled 1.5 amps. This motor looks to need some gear for retro racing if it gets legal. I haven't tried it yet but I'm looking forward to trying some of the ProSlot mini motor arms in this can. It's a little thicker can than the ProSlot.

Now the question is will it last?
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#11 Jeff Easterly

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:59 PM

Thank you, Mike! :)
I will be VERY interested in hearing about the further testing of this new mini-motor...
Take care, Mike.... Again, thanks! :D


Jeff Easterly ;)

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#12 Hworth08

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:23 AM

There are six versions of the Falcon motor. Perhaps this motor is the Hawk 1.0?

The big problem with the Falcon is the brushes. The Hawk motor might have solved that.
Don Hollingsworth

#13 slotcarjames

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:04 PM

I took and broke my Hawk in at 5 volts as recommended put a 9T pinion on it and mounted it in a Cheetah 11 with GT1 body geared at 36 which comes out 4-1. It seemed weak on torgue or power as compared to my Falcon setup the same way geared at 13-38.

The Track is a big blue King 155' lone with avg. voltage at around 13.4.

I'm going to regear the car at 8-36 which is 4.4 to 1 and see if she will wake up.

I am hoping these motors will perform equal to the Falcon 7 because I like the fact that you can rebuild it plus it is allot less than other mini motors which cost 41.00.

SCJ
James Rorrer
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#14 idare2bdul

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:48 PM

I suspect that one of these motors with a ProSlot Big Dog arm stuffed in it would wake up real well. :rolleyes:
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#15 Ron Hershman

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:32 PM

I took and broke my Hawk in at 5 volts as recommended put a 9T pinion on it and mounted it in a Cheetah 11 with GT1 body geared at 36 which comes out 4-1. It seemed weak on torgue or power as compared to my Falcon setup the same way geared at 13-38.

The Track is a big blue King 155' lone with avg. voltage at around 13.4.

I'm going to regear the car at 8-36 which is 4.4 to 1 and see if she will wake up.

I am hoping these motors will perform equal to the Falcon 7 because I like the fact that you can rebuild it plus it is allot less than other mini motors which cost 41.00.

SCJ


She will wake up with a smaller pinion and you should find it to be quite a bit faster than a Falcon 7 when geared correctly

#16 Ron Hershman

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:33 PM

There are six versions of the Falcon motor. Perhaps this motor is the Hawk 1.0?

The big problem with the Falcon is the brushes. The Hawk motor might have solved that.


The Falcon 7 brush system is the problem with the wind in that motor.

While the Hawk has a standard 36-D brush system, this leads to more speed, but can very well cause reliability problems unless geared correctly. The taller brushes will lead to more comm and arm heat.

Now some early reports..... out of the bag Hawk, broke in brushes, geared 7-28 48 pitch in a retro Can-Am car..... was fast for 14 or so laps then the arm slung a wire and two poles cooked.

Another report..... Hawk set-up with a Pro-Slot Puppy Dog arm in the same car...runs fantastic.

It's comes down to Asian quality on the arms.

We all know how those Asian arms are. ;)

#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:45 PM

There are six versions of the Falcon motor. Perhaps this motor is the Hawk 1.0?

Don, actually there has been seven versions of Falcons sold by JK. Except for 3, 4, & 5, I have the others.

Falcon
Falcon 1
Falcon 2
Falcon 3
Falcon 4
Falcon 5
Falcon 7

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#18 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:08 AM

Now some early reports..... out of the bag Hawk, broke in brushes, geared 7-28 48 pitch in a retro Can-Am car..... was fast for 14 or so laps then the arm slung a wire and two poles cooked.

Another report..... Hawk set-up with a Pro-Slot Puppy Dog arm in the same car...runs fantastic.

I'm not sure why guys are bothering to run the Hawk in Retro cars.
As mentioned before, JK has no intention of submitting it for Retro use.
The recommended 4-1 or 4.5-1 ratio is for flexi cars with .760 or smaller tires.
With the hot wind, the added weight of a Retro car,and the large dia. .812 tires,
I'm not surprised it smoked.

The good news is, at $14.95,even after smoking the arm,
it's worth it for the set-up to put an American arm in.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman

Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
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#19 idare2bdul

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:14 AM

Sorry Mr. Swiss, get used to people putting ProSlot arms in the new motor. Seems like a good combination of nice can and better arm. Getting approved for RetroPro use is a theoretical possibility but it's going in a Drag car this weekend, results to follow.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#20 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:21 AM

Mike,
When I mentioned Jerry had no intention of submitting the Hawk for Retro use,
I was referring for IRRA Retro racing with seals on them.

Maybe you saw my post before I edited it, adding:
The good news is, at $14.95,even after smoking the arm,
it's worth it for the set-up to put an American arm in.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman

Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990) 

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Westmont, IL 60559
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#21 Don Weaver

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 07:23 AM

Are the brushes and springs in this motor good or do they need to be replaced?

Don Weaver

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#22 MantaRay

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 08:30 AM

Sorry Mr. Swiss, get used to people putting ProSlot arms in the new motor. Seems like a good combination of nice can and better arm. Getting approved for RetroPro use is a theoretical possibility but it's going in a Drag car this weekend, results to follow.


FWIW......the endbell hardware(Hoods/Backing Plates) need to be enlarged to accomodate the larger comm on the American Arm
Resident Curmudgeon
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#23 Ron Hershman

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 08:37 AM

Are the brushes and springs in this motor good or do they need to be replaced?

Don Weaver


The springs seem to be good.... the brushes should be replaced with Super II Big Foots or Gold Dust for best performance.

#24 Gun_N_4U

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:54 AM

Cost of the motor is 14.95, now we have to add brushes, add a American arm, even springs if you want the true build, so now what is it worth ???


Here we go again, another motor you got to build to get it to run and last..
Roger Urquhart

#25 Ron Hershman

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:04 AM

Cost of the motor is 14.95, now we have to add brushes, add a American arm, even springs if you want the true build, so now what is it worth ???


Here we go again, another motor you got to build to get it to run and last..


So Roger...just asking questions here.....

What motor(s) do you normally run in your weekly racing programs?

What other motors ( Asian ) are out there that that do not require additional "building" to make them run better and last?

#26 TSR

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:31 AM

I'm not sure why guys are bothering to run the Hawk in Retro cars.

But it COULD make a good base for a Retro Pro... if it proves to be straight and with good magnets, and the plating sticks to the can...
Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#27 Gun_N_4U

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:34 AM

We run ps or Kelly 16d in the kids class with gtp bodies, adult class we run S16d ps or kelly with Bentley bodies.
As you know everyone wants to go faster than the next, that requires building the motor of course, and of course that cost more, arms brushes, springs, cost goes up..

The cost of a American arm is what 26.00 brushes 3.50, springs 2.00, blue printed motor Amercian setup 42.00 for the motor.
I bought 10 motors PS S16d motors sealed last week and we burned them up back to back with 11/37 on them, rebuilt with new arms, burnt 2 of the 4 up with in 25 laps.. 10/37 gives you more in the turns but less on the straights, they still burn or sling with either gear combination.

This is JMPOV, I just see us putting more motor in ever motor to get it to run fast or last longer, at least a falcon 7 gives you both, I can run 500 laps on it and 9/10 times it will be pretty close to were I started with it.. Im not knocking this motor (hawk) just see were going to have to put money in it to go fast and last longer.. but of course we could run it at 8/36 and live with it..
Roger Urquhart

#28 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:53 AM

I'm not sure why guys are bothering to run the Hawk in Retro cars.


But it COULD make a good base for a Retro Pro... if it proves to be straight and with good magnets, and the plating sticks to the can...

As I mentioned in post #20:
I was referring for IRRA Retro racing with seals on them.

My point was I'm not sure why guys are trying them in a class
they will never be legal (again :rolleyes: , IRRA classes with sealed motors)

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman

Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990) 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
 
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#29 Ron Hershman

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:16 AM

My point was I'm not sure why guys are trying them in a class
they will never be legal (again :rolleyes: , IRRA classes with sealed motors)


I think it was purely as test to see where the Hawk stands in regards to the Falcon 7 which is IRRA approved.

The Hawk was faster, but didn't live.

Just a test to see where it stacked up....that's all

#30 Ron Hershman

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:22 AM

We run ps or Kelly 16d in the kids class with gtp bodies, adult class we run S16d ps or kelly with Bentley bodies.
As you know everyone wants to go faster than the next, that requires building the motor of course, and of course that cost more, arms brushes, springs, cost goes up..

The cost of a American arm is what 26.00 brushes 3.50, springs 2.00, blue printed motor Amercian setup 42.00 for the motor.
I bought 10 motors PS S16d motors sealed last week and we burned them up back to back with 11/37 on them, rebuilt with new arms, burnt 2 of the 4 up with in 25 laps.. 10/37 gives you more in the turns but less on the straights, they still burn or sling with either gear combination.

This is JMPOV, I just see us putting more motor in ever motor to get it to run fast or last longer, at least a falcon 7 gives you both, I can run 500 laps on it and 9/10 times it will be pretty close to were I started with it.. Im not knocking this motor (hawk) just see were going to have to put money in it to go fast and last longer.. but of course we could run it at 8/36 and live with it..


Well we all know that "cheap" motors with Asian arms are both cheap and have problems with quality and being reliable.

Considering the P-S and Hawk arms are made in the same factory....if one has problems, the other brand will as well. Lack of and use of proper expoxy is the biggest problems.

You could institute a "gear rule" that will add "life" to the motors. Sure they might go slower, but they will last longer.

I guess I have to ask if your happy with the Falcon 7's, then why look for another motor that's going to cause problems??





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