Jump to content




Photo

New JK Hawk motor talk!


  • Please log in to reply
126 replies to this topic

#1 slotcarjames

slotcarjames

    Semi-Pro Slot Car Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Joined: 20-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Model Car Race Center at Eden Mall, Eden, NC

Posted 06 February 2010 - 03:25 PM

Since there is so many people that would like to know more about this motor to include me I thought that I would start this post to provide a place for thought.

Some good questions would be, how does this motor compare to the falcon 7 and Puppy Dog and even the big dog in performance.

We know the PD is rated at 47,000 rpms and the Hawk is rated at 58,000 rpms. It has been said that the Hawk likes 4 to 4.5 to 1 gearing.

Also, JK has already made a new RTR car for the motor. Cheetah 11 GT1.

Please see attach file for JK flier!!!

Thank you and look forward to seeing what our slot car friends have to say about this new motor!!!

Attached Files


James Rorrer
Semi-Pro Slot Car Racer
Both HO & 1/24
Since 1968




#2 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,557 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 07 February 2010 - 01:14 PM

Last night, I tried the Hawk motor in my Can-Am racer, geared at 7/28. It was bogging on SCR's blue king & acceleration was not so great, compared to the F7 & TSR motor. I would like to try 4.5 to 1 ratio, but it requires a 32T crown gear & I can barely fit a 30T right now. I'll try this motor in my Saturday night race car with 64P gear; I should get better results. Later on, dogs. ;)
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#3 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,570 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:39 PM

I think the Hawk is better suited for flexi/spec racing. I dislike 7T pinions. F7/TSR motors are plenty enough power for Retro, IMO.
You can quote me.

-Mark

#4 Dominator

Dominator

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,463 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:11 PM

I took a few laps with one tonight and I have to agree that it would really not be best suited for retro but in a flexi class would be ok. 64 pitch would be the option for gearing. The car I drove tonight was geared7/28 and it still barely had enough gear. Now if only someone made a angle 6 tooth piņon in 48 pitch that would be great!

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.

 

Dominic Luongo


#5 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,557 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:56 PM

They do make a 6T pinion, but it's brass & wears out quickly. Better to stick with the F7's & TSR motors, but these may be the hot ticket for Retro-Pro cars. :rolleyes:
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#6 CruzinBob

CruzinBob

    Track Owner, Builder, Mobile Track Master

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,479 posts
  • Joined: 13-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mesa, AZ

Posted 09 February 2010 - 10:11 AM

And here's that handsome devil back then! TOA Convention ('94?)

Bob1a.jpg
Bob Scott
Cruzin' Mobile Slot Car Racing

Men can heal the lustful. Angels can heal the malicious. Only God can heal the proud. - St. John Climacus

#7 Mopar Rob

Mopar Rob

    Retro Snob as of 1/12/2011

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,445 posts
  • Joined: 13-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:By a Great Lake

Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:06 PM

:rolleyes: Who Jim Hugger or Jerry :laugh2:
Rob Hanson

Shops at Mid-America Raceway and uses R-Geo Products
 

Rob was right!


#8 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,664 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:24 PM

Hugger with hair!!!!!!!!
John Austin

#9 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,522 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 16 February 2010 - 11:17 AM

I've been told that the can bushing is magnetic; anyone else confirm this?
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#10 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 16 February 2010 - 02:42 PM

I did my first motor testing and I think the motor has promise. it broke in a little slower than a Falcon7. After break in I test at 5 volts. The Falcons usually test between 19000 to 20800 RPM. most clustered in the 19700 to 20000 RPM range. Amp draw is from .05 to .08. The JK motor turned 25000 RPM and pulled 1.5 amps. This motor looks to need some gear for retro racing if it gets legal. I haven't tried it yet but I'm looking forward to trying some of the ProSlot mini motor arms in this can. It's a little thicker can than the ProSlot.

Now the question is will it last?
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#11 Jeff Easterly

Jeff Easterly

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: 09-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fullerton, CA

Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:59 PM

Thank you, Mike! :)
I will be VERY interested in hearing about the further testing of this new mini-motor...
Take care, Mike.... Again, thanks! :D


Jeff Easterly ;)

Jeff Easterly - Capt., Team Wheezer...
Asst. Mechanic, Team Zombie...
Power is coming on... NOW!!!

#12 Hworth08

Hworth08

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Location:Springfield, TN

Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:23 AM

There are six versions of the Falcon motor. Perhaps this motor is the Hawk 1.0?

The big problem with the Falcon is the brushes. The Hawk motor might have solved that.
Don Hollingsworth

#13 slotcarjames

slotcarjames

    Semi-Pro Slot Car Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Joined: 20-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Model Car Race Center at Eden Mall, Eden, NC

Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:04 PM

I took and broke my Hawk in at 5 volts as recommended put a 9T pinion on it and mounted it in a Cheetah 11 with GT1 body geared at 36 which comes out 4-1. It seemed weak on torgue or power as compared to my Falcon setup the same way geared at 13-38.

The Track is a big blue King 155' lone with avg. voltage at around 13.4.

I'm going to regear the car at 8-36 which is 4.4 to 1 and see if she will wake up.

I am hoping these motors will perform equal to the Falcon 7 because I like the fact that you can rebuild it plus it is allot less than other mini motors which cost 41.00.

SCJ
James Rorrer
Semi-Pro Slot Car Racer
Both HO & 1/24
Since 1968

#14 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:48 PM

I suspect that one of these motors with a ProSlot Big Dog arm stuffed in it would wake up real well. :rolleyes:
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#15 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:32 PM

I took and broke my Hawk in at 5 volts as recommended put a 9T pinion on it and mounted it in a Cheetah 11 with GT1 body geared at 36 which comes out 4-1. It seemed weak on torgue or power as compared to my Falcon setup the same way geared at 13-38.

The Track is a big blue King 155' lone with avg. voltage at around 13.4.

I'm going to regear the car at 8-36 which is 4.4 to 1 and see if she will wake up.

I am hoping these motors will perform equal to the Falcon 7 because I like the fact that you can rebuild it plus it is allot less than other mini motors which cost 41.00.

SCJ


She will wake up with a smaller pinion and you should find it to be quite a bit faster than a Falcon 7 when geared correctly

#16 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:33 PM

There are six versions of the Falcon motor. Perhaps this motor is the Hawk 1.0?

The big problem with the Falcon is the brushes. The Hawk motor might have solved that.


The Falcon 7 brush system is the problem with the wind in that motor.

While the Hawk has a standard 36-D brush system, this leads to more speed, but can very well cause reliability problems unless geared correctly. The taller brushes will lead to more comm and arm heat.

Now some early reports..... out of the bag Hawk, broke in brushes, geared 7-28 48 pitch in a retro Can-Am car..... was fast for 14 or so laps then the arm slung a wire and two poles cooked.

Another report..... Hawk set-up with a Pro-Slot Puppy Dog arm in the same car...runs fantastic.

It's comes down to Asian quality on the arms.

We all know how those Asian arms are. ;)

#17 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,163 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:45 PM

There are six versions of the Falcon motor. Perhaps this motor is the Hawk 1.0?

Don, actually there has been seven versions of Falcons sold by JK. Except for 3, 4, & 5, I have the others.

Falcon
Falcon 1
Falcon 2
Falcon 3
Falcon 4
Falcon 5
Falcon 7

Bill Fernald

Time is precious,
waste it wisely. :victory: 

#18 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,958 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:08 AM

Now some early reports..... out of the bag Hawk, broke in brushes, geared 7-28 48 pitch in a retro Can-Am car..... was fast for 14 or so laps then the arm slung a wire and two poles cooked.

Another report..... Hawk set-up with a Pro-Slot Puppy Dog arm in the same car...runs fantastic.

I'm not sure why guys are bothering to run the Hawk in Retro cars.
As mentioned before, JK has no intention of submitting it for Retro use.
The recommended 4-1 or 4.5-1 ratio is for flexi cars with .760 or smaller tires.
With the hot wind, the added weight of a Retro car,and the large dia. .812 tires,
I'm not surprised it smoked.

The good news is, at $14.95,even after smoking the arm,
it's worth it for the set-up to put an American arm in.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#19 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:14 AM

Sorry Mr. Swiss, get used to people putting ProSlot arms in the new motor. Seems like a good combination of nice can and better arm. Getting approved for RetroPro use is a theoretical possibility but it's going in a Drag car this weekend, results to follow.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#20 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,958 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:21 AM

Mike,
When I mentioned Jerry had no intention of submitting the Hawk for Retro use,
I was referring for IRRA Retro racing with seals on them.

Maybe you saw my post before I edited it, adding:
The good news is, at $14.95,even after smoking the arm,
it's worth it for the set-up to put an American arm in.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#21 Don Weaver

Don Weaver

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 901 posts
  • Joined: 26-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington. SC

Posted 19 February 2010 - 07:23 AM

Are the brushes and springs in this motor good or do they need to be replaced?

Don Weaver

Don Weaver
The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
it will starve to death...


#22 MantaRay

MantaRay

    Simply Addicted

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,859 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Posted 19 February 2010 - 08:30 AM

Sorry Mr. Swiss, get used to people putting ProSlot arms in the new motor. Seems like a good combination of nice can and better arm. Getting approved for RetroPro use is a theoretical possibility but it's going in a Drag car this weekend, results to follow.


FWIW......the endbell hardware(Hoods/Backing Plates) need to be enlarged to accomodate the larger comm on the American Arm
Ray Price
11/4/49-1/23/15
Requiescat in Pace

#23 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 19 February 2010 - 08:37 AM

Are the brushes and springs in this motor good or do they need to be replaced?

Don Weaver


The springs seem to be good.... the brushes should be replaced with Super II Big Foots or Gold Dust for best performance.

#24 Gun_N_4U

Gun_N_4U

    Ex-Track Owner -Ga-

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Warner Robins, GA

Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:54 AM

Cost of the motor is 14.95, now we have to add brushes, add a American arm, even springs if you want the true build, so now what is it worth ???


Here we go again, another motor you got to build to get it to run and last..
Roger Urquhart

#25 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:04 AM

Cost of the motor is 14.95, now we have to add brushes, add a American arm, even springs if you want the true build, so now what is it worth ???


Here we go again, another motor you got to build to get it to run and last..


So Roger...just asking questions here.....

What motor(s) do you normally run in your weekly racing programs?

What other motors ( Asian ) are out there that that do not require additional "building" to make them run better and last?

#26 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,993 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:31 AM

I'm not sure why guys are bothering to run the Hawk in Retro cars.

But it COULD make a good base for a Retro Pro... if it proves to be straight and with good magnets, and the plating sticks to the can...

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#27 Gun_N_4U

Gun_N_4U

    Ex-Track Owner -Ga-

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Warner Robins, GA

Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:34 AM

We run ps or Kelly 16d in the kids class with gtp bodies, adult class we run S16d ps or kelly with Bentley bodies.
As you know everyone wants to go faster than the next, that requires building the motor of course, and of course that cost more, arms brushes, springs, cost goes up..

The cost of a American arm is what 26.00 brushes 3.50, springs 2.00, blue printed motor Amercian setup 42.00 for the motor.
I bought 10 motors PS S16d motors sealed last week and we burned them up back to back with 11/37 on them, rebuilt with new arms, burnt 2 of the 4 up with in 25 laps.. 10/37 gives you more in the turns but less on the straights, they still burn or sling with either gear combination.

This is JMPOV, I just see us putting more motor in ever motor to get it to run fast or last longer, at least a falcon 7 gives you both, I can run 500 laps on it and 9/10 times it will be pretty close to were I started with it.. Im not knocking this motor (hawk) just see were going to have to put money in it to go fast and last longer.. but of course we could run it at 8/36 and live with it..
Roger Urquhart

#28 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,958 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:53 AM

I'm not sure why guys are bothering to run the Hawk in Retro cars.


But it COULD make a good base for a Retro Pro... if it proves to be straight and with good magnets, and the plating sticks to the can...

As I mentioned in post #20:
I was referring for IRRA Retro racing with seals on them.

My point was I'm not sure why guys are trying them in a class
they will never be legal (again :rolleyes: , IRRA classes with sealed motors)

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#29 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:16 AM

My point was I'm not sure why guys are trying them in a class
they will never be legal (again :rolleyes: , IRRA classes with sealed motors)


I think it was purely as test to see where the Hawk stands in regards to the Falcon 7 which is IRRA approved.

The Hawk was faster, but didn't live.

Just a test to see where it stacked up....that's all

#30 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:22 AM

We run ps or Kelly 16d in the kids class with gtp bodies, adult class we run S16d ps or kelly with Bentley bodies.
As you know everyone wants to go faster than the next, that requires building the motor of course, and of course that cost more, arms brushes, springs, cost goes up..

The cost of a American arm is what 26.00 brushes 3.50, springs 2.00, blue printed motor Amercian setup 42.00 for the motor.
I bought 10 motors PS S16d motors sealed last week and we burned them up back to back with 11/37 on them, rebuilt with new arms, burnt 2 of the 4 up with in 25 laps.. 10/37 gives you more in the turns but less on the straights, they still burn or sling with either gear combination.

This is JMPOV, I just see us putting more motor in ever motor to get it to run fast or last longer, at least a falcon 7 gives you both, I can run 500 laps on it and 9/10 times it will be pretty close to were I started with it.. Im not knocking this motor (hawk) just see were going to have to put money in it to go fast and last longer.. but of course we could run it at 8/36 and live with it..


Well we all know that "cheap" motors with Asian arms are both cheap and have problems with quality and being reliable.

Considering the P-S and Hawk arms are made in the same factory....if one has problems, the other brand will as well. Lack of and use of proper expoxy is the biggest problems.

You could institute a "gear rule" that will add "life" to the motors. Sure they might go slower, but they will last longer.

I guess I have to ask if your happy with the Falcon 7's, then why look for another motor that's going to cause problems??

#31 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:34 PM

Seems to me that this motor has been labeled as being for Flexi type cars where it will likely do just fine. If you want it to do something else then you modify it or buy something else. I'm looking forward to trying it in a drag car. with a Stealth controller or a diode or two to cut the voltage a bit it should work just fine.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#32 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,958 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:55 PM

Mike,
I'm very interested how it will do as a
"small block" drag motor.

Keep us in touch with your results.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#33 jimht

jimht

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 963 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:57 PM

Since we seem to be having fun here reinventing the wheel...how about if we have a Retro Modified Hawk Motor Class?
Must be rewound with red wire (Simco Sodereze not required, just red), comm connections soldered (not brazed or welded) and balanced with razor blades and a file (no drill holes).
Epoxy is OK, as long as it's clear.
Oh, and no additional heat sinks allowed on the endbell.
If you don't remember Simco, razor blade balancing and threaded axles, you're not allowed to play. ;)

Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#34 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,557 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:06 PM

Since we seem to be having fun here reinventing the wheel...how about if we have a Retro Modified Hawk Motor Class?
Must be rewound with red wire (Simco Sodereze not required, just red), comm connections soldered (not brazed or welded) and balanced with razor blades and a file (no drill holes).
Epoxy is OK, as long as it's clear.
Oh, and no additional heat sinks allowed on the endbell.
If you don't remember Simco, razor blade balancing and threaded axles, you're not allowed to play. ;)

Are ball bearings & shunt wires allowed?
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#35 Hworth08

Hworth08

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Location:Springfield, TN

Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:18 PM

Jim,

A class where the racer does the winding? Finally something retro for the Retro divisions!

What a novel idea, and to be followed by all the reasons of why it won't work.

Perhaps the Mabuchi 16D oval hole's son has been born?
Don Hollingsworth

#36 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,993 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:29 PM

Those guys have no sense of humor... :D

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#37 Victor Poulin

Victor Poulin

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,097 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raymond, NH

Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:56 PM

Jim,

A class where the racer does the winding? Finally something retro for the Retro divisions!

What a novel idea, and to be followed by all the reasons of why it won't work.

Perhaps the Mabuchi 16D oval hole's son has been born?



Posted ImageDo they make slot tow trucks ?? Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
Alright, who cut the cheese?

#38 jimht

jimht

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 963 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 19 February 2010 - 04:05 PM

Are ball bearings & shunt wires allowed?

Sure, if it's not banned, it's allowed.

Cheaters will be easy to catch...they'll be the ones whose motors don't burn up during the race.
:P

Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#39 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,557 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 21 February 2010 - 02:44 AM

Well, I tried the Hawk in my Saturday night racer & it did reasonably well (1st place). I geared it 4.5 to 1, brakes were good & acceleration was okay. I didn't get the coast factor like I did with the F7, in fact, this motor may have too much brakes. I'll have to try one tooth less on the spur & see what happens next. Burrito out.
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#40 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:15 AM

I don't think anybody actually got one of the new motors in a drag car today at BP but several more racers bought them and we should have them in cars by next week's race. Paul Wilde has two broken in, one stock, the other with ProSlot brushes and shunt wire.

I'll be trying a stock motor in a light weight car hoping for a car that takes little glue and runs 1.0 sec or faster. I'd prefer a .990 result.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#41 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,958 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:04 AM

Jerry has just announced the 30302 replacement arm.
It retails for only $5.95.
As John Austin/Brassrodman mentioned in another Hawk thread,
this looks as a good opportunity for someone like Ron Hershman to
supply one with more epoxy, better balancing and posibbly better comm
wrapping, for say $14.95.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#42 Larry Mattingly

Larry Mattingly

    Posting Leader

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,461 posts
  • Joined: 12-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnstown, PA

Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:42 AM

How long until we see the introduction of American wound replacement arms... :rolleyes:

LM

#43 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,152 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:22 AM

How long until we see the introduction of American wound replacement arms...


Posted Image

The motor looks like another potential candidate for hot-rodding. It's got a nice endbell anyway, I wonder how the magnets, arm, com etc. are? Could be the basis for a fun-but-completely-illegal motor Posted Image

-john
John Havlicek

#44 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 27 February 2010 - 01:23 AM

How long until we see the introduction of American wound replacement arms... :rolleyes:

LM


Just throw a P-S Puppy Dog or Big Dog or X-12 in it......they are already out there.

#45 Larry Mattingly

Larry Mattingly

    Posting Leader

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,461 posts
  • Joined: 12-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnstown, PA

Posted 27 February 2010 - 08:22 AM

Just throw a P-S Puppy Dog or Big Dog or X-12 in it......they are already out there.


Hmmm...

Why not just buy a Pro Slot... :unsure:

Price would be roughly the same, and the PS motors 'fit' into certain classes of racing.

LM

#46 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 28 February 2010 - 03:54 AM

Why not buy a ProSlot? This motor offers a thicker can that should have some adavantages. While JK doesn't offer an American armature the proslot should fit with minor endbell modifications. The level of performance is higher than the Chinese arm version of the ProSlot.
Foamy tried one in about a 120 gram drag car and quickly got it to run in the 1.39 Et index class with top end almost 10 mph higher than average for that class.

A couple other racers tried them in slightly faster cars and so far none have let the smoke out.

In short this motor provides an alternative to the Chines ProSlot home track motor but not yet for the ProSlot motors with American arms. But it is at an attractive price point for use and abuse.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#47 Jerry Ward

Jerry Ward

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sandusky, OH

Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:36 PM

Well our raceway's have been doing some testing on the Hawk motor and with not much luck!! Gear 7-28 48 pitch track power at one 13.7 voltes and the other around 12.6 voltes 8 out of 10 we bought went up in smoke big time!! Im sure some of the other guy's at our raceway may chime in here and with there opinion. Track's are 113 ft. paperclip and 140ft. kingelman Any sugestion ???? Jerry :unsure:
Jerry Ward
2/23/51-5/20/14
Requiescat in Pace

#48 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,958 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 March 2010 - 01:00 AM

What type of car are you running them in?

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#49 J&B Bear

J&B Bear

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northwest OH

Posted 11 March 2010 - 01:24 AM

Well I was really searching to find a class to run them even if we had to create it. Just seemed like a good 15.00 motor that could be rebuilt versus all the sealed stuff. But I hate to say it my opinion has changed.

After a very through going over of the cans and some arms on the outside it all looked great by the numbers. The arms shafts I checked were between .0005 and .001 of being straight. Seemed to have a natural balance. Were around 1500 or so when metered and close per pole. 18 degrees of timing. The mags in the can were 820 or so and pretty well matched with some around 840. All pluses. I checked out 5 or 6 motors. The only down side was nearly every one needed the hoods reamed or a brush would hang up.

An HMS Speedway racer blew up 4 in about 30 minutes at my track which is a 113' paperclip with my voltage at 13.7. I have 2 8D Batteries, a 90 amp Rivergate to keep them up and 3 power taps on the track. On the motors: one straight off the wall, 2 were ones I had torn down to check things and rebuilt back with the stock parts. The other with SBF II`s and Champion Light Springs. Plus the 4 motors blew up in a combo of 2 different chassis`s. 2 In Kelly/Proslot and 2 in Turboflexs. Which was another question I had so we tried it after the first two. All geared 7-28 the 4 to 1 they reccomend. These were 4" GT-1 cars.

Now I had one totally stock right off the wall with only the brush hoods reamed and reassembled live thru an 8 lane GT 1 race geared 7-28 in an .025 Cheetah 7 chassis. Then it blewup tonight at HMS Speedway at 13.7 volts in the second lane. Ok not so good.

Then I had one in a 4 1/2" .030 Cheetah 7 Dirt Late model with a .025 pan and an Alum. pan that was raced saturday 8 lanes against a full track of Parmas 502`s all geared 9/26 and was as fast and actually faster than most on my 85' High Banked Tri oval and I was once again I was geared at 7/28 at 13.6-7 volts. Only to have it blow up tonight at HMS in 2 lanes.

Not mention Jerry Ward had one that lived thru the 8 lane GT-1 Race at my store and blew up playing. Within 15 minutes.

So I`m kinda stumped here and very disappointed. All 3 tracks in 2 different raceways have good clean power with 8D Batteries, power supplies, or a combination of both. The voltage wasn`t too high I don`t think at 13.7 being clean with no AC ripple. Quite a combo of tracks, chassis`s, and bodies that should have been great feedback for any motor man. Don`t know what else I could do.

Anyone have any ideas? At this point I`d have to say they`re a bust from my perspective and hopefully you guys have better luck than we did. All the indicators looked so good too.

Cheers!
Bear
Bill "Bear" Overmyer
11/13/53-5/25/10
Requiescat in Pace

#50 idare2bdul

idare2bdul

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,557 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garner, NC

Posted 11 March 2010 - 02:24 AM

13.7 volts may be too much. The Chinese arm ProSlots we tried early on didn't live. Try without the power supply on and see if it makes a difference. This is one of the reasons the American Armatures in the ProSlot became popular, they lived and performed consistently.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker





Electric Dreams Online Shop