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Race #20 - Raceworld Speedway - LaGrange, GA


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#1 Raceworld61

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:14 PM

Who's the who of Retro racers making the journey?

Less than two weeks away!
Chad Harrington - slot car bully and most of the time faster than you were!
5 Time National Champion

Raceworld Speedway




#2 Pablo

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:41 PM

Wish I could... that's a work weekend for me. :blush:

John Clow and I will be at the Nats in April, though. :D
Paul Wolcott

#3 brnursebmt

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:52 PM

I'll be there. Hey Chad, are we running Stock Cars or F1? The home page says Stock Cars.
Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

#4 Cheater

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:04 PM

I'm thinking about coming down, Chad... LOL!!!

Bobby, the "official" SERRA™ schedule says F1!

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#5 Mopar Rob

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:32 PM

If you guys can talk my employer into sending me to our Lagrange facility that week, I'll be happy to come race.
Rob Hanson

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Rob was right!


#6 Wild Thang

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 01:48 AM

I'll b there Chad. just need cars lol
Ed Rowland

#7 Pablo

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 02:41 AM

What happened to all the effort I (and others) gave in showing you where to find good cars ? Here
Wasted. :rolleyes:
Paul Wolcott

#8 Wild Thang

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:39 PM

Found one there, Pablo, that I like. I have one to run just got get it fast. It's for the Cam-Am class.
Ed Rowland

#9 Raceworld61

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:07 PM

Bobby...

We are running F1 and Can-Am!
Chad Harrington - slot car bully and most of the time faster than you were!
5 Time National Champion

Raceworld Speedway

#10 Raceworld61

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:33 PM

If all goes well with the computer hook-up tomorrow... We could have a live streaming race feed!
Chad Harrington - slot car bully and most of the time faster than you were!
5 Time National Champion

Raceworld Speedway

#11 Raceworld61

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 01:58 PM

So what happened to the feed link?
Chad Harrington - slot car bully and most of the time faster than you were!
5 Time National Champion

Raceworld Speedway

#12 Cheater

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 02:36 PM

Chad,

It was under General Slot Racing and after the live feed was taken down, I deleted it.

Here is again:

FWIW I did not record the whole day, as we were having so much trouble with the feed earlier. The short clips recorded earlier in the day can be viewed.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#13 Wild Thang

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 11:07 PM

Ok, After this week end i have been reading the rules and cant find anything n the rules about what went on with tire prep... so wheres it at ..I know im beatn a dead horse just want c what i can and cant do..Or was the wool pulled over our eyes and a fast one pulled
Ed Rowland

#14 Cheater

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:16 AM

First problem we have is that the SERRA rules post... links to the 2008-2009 rules as the rules that they go by. Ralph thought he'd use the ones from the IRRA website.

Chad,

Let's get the fact straight please.

The SERRA™ rules post may have an older link to the IRRA™ rules but it is very clear about the "SERRA™ rules":

SERRA™ does not have its own rules but utilizes the national IRRA™ rules with one exception: the FK-only motor set (i.e. the Pro Slot motor is disallowed) is utilized.

Sorry, this is not the black & white issue you're trying to label it. The main mistake was made by the SERRA™ co-directors and we did our best to ameliorate the situation we caused.

I won't speak for Jay, but the continuing "discussion" about SERRA™ #20 is not reinforcing my desire to continue the SERRA™ series after the summer break and/or to schedule a race at Raceworld if we do. Might be time to let this dead horse go...

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#15 Jay Guard

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:46 AM

Ok, After this week end i have been reading the rules and cant find anything n the rules about what went on with tire prep... so wheres it at ..I know im beatn a dead horse just want c what i can and cant do..Or was the wool pulled over our eyes and a fast one pulled

Eddie:

There was no "fast one" pulled, just an honest mistake on my part in the drivers meeting when I said that nothing but naphtha could be used on the tires. The guys who did use Zip-Grip in the first F1 race obviously knew the IRRA™ rules better than I did and used it. I wish they would have brought that fact to my attention during the drivers meeting but they didn't, and ultimately it was my fault.

After that first F1 race Ralph and I both checked with the IRRA™ Director and he told us where the applicable rule was located (it's in the IRRA™ General Rules under track conditions). The rule says that no glue may be added to the track so it doesn't disallow cleaning the tires. In fact in an IRRA™ board thread this topic was discussed and cleaning of the tires with Zip-Grip, naphtha, etc. was specifically allowed. The fact is that Ralph and some others were legal according to the IRRA™ rules which we use (with the one exception of the no Pro slot motor rule).

I gave the guys (including you) in the second F1 race the chance to use any cleaner they wanted so I don't see where it was "unfair" to anyone in that race. If there was anything unfair it was to some of the guys in the first race that went by what I said. That's why I got them together after the race to explain the situation. I must admit I'm still a little confused as to why you and Chad felt it was unfair to you when you were allowed to use any cleaner you wanted in your race.

Bottom line is this, there's no conspiracy going on here, just a honest mistake on my part, sorry!

Jay Guard
Retro Racer &
Flat Track Fanatic


#16 Wild Thang

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 12:58 PM

Yeah a mistake was made, Me coming and spending my money at this race..I also c if u dont like what someone opinoin is it get deleted
Ed Rowland

#17 Chris Barnes

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:01 PM

Jay,

Very good explanation and I can't see that you could have reacted to the problem more than you did. The rumor of the "over-reacting" by some of the local racers was very concerning. That must be part of what has caused a lack of interest in continuing into Greg. Apparently, there are some that want to cause conflict in the series to ruin it. Winning at all cost or taking away the fun of others has no room in Retro Racing. This is supposed to be fun, and it appears that some are out to take the fun factor away. If you don't like the rules as they are, then DON'T RACE. Don't ruin it for everyone else.

Again, Jay, thanks for clarifying for everyone on something that you clarified at the race.

#18 Raceworld61

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:29 PM

Still Simple....

Jay,
Your mistake or not. First race, both heats should have been run under the rules you stated at the drivers meeting.
Live by the mistake and make sure that you are not viewed as wishy washy and/or showing favoritism. (Which is what I saw it as.)
I am not disputing that it is in the rules. Just that you changed it and wouldn't live by your words.
If there needed to be a change, it should have come after the F1 race. Corrected and announced before Can-Am.

Ask any of the other racers that raced if it was wrong. They will agree with me.

I know you asked the racers in heat one. They all started with NO, but you listened to the rest of their input and never took their NO for an answer. You heard what you wanted to hear. But, Lamar,Gary and Steve's first word was all NO! But yet got perceived as it was OK.


Greg,

It would also seem that your link to IRRA 2009-2010 RULES would have been correct and sent to the proper link for the current rules that the IRRA has issued. That in itself creates confusion since it is in your SERRA SECTION since it is directed to the 2008-2009 rules PDF's. And feel free to have a race at Raceworld. I will not participate or be there or any other SERRA race. My choice. Because the words that fly can't even be taken at face value if it involves rules.



Chris,
If he wouldn't have said them as rules for the day, but he did, it might be a whole different story. Then when someone went against the rules, they were not punished for breaking the rules. In any racing organization should the rules be changed in the middle of heats? NO, not at all.

If I would have changed tires during the race without approval, I would have been DQ'd. Because that was also in his driver's meeting speech as well. But in the same retrospec, I could have went and put on a new set. Just had a set that looked similar with a bent hub or cut in the tire. That would have been ok cause the product failed. That was pretty much what happened with the zipgrip after the driver's meeting.
Chad Harrington - slot car bully and most of the time faster than you were!
5 Time National Champion

Raceworld Speedway

#19 Pablo

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 02:50 PM

My Chihuahua says "Stop putting all that splooge on your tires and the problem will go away!!"

"That means EVERYBODY!"


DSC01593.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#20 Chris Barnes

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:55 PM

Chad,

from what I saw in Jay's response, he saw he made a mistake and said he was correcting it. To me that shows a greater amount of integrity than just living with the mistake. It looks like Jay was doing his best to be fair. Just be glad that Noose wasn't teching. The tech Nazi would make it very interesting. Come on up to the R4 and see what I mean.

#21 Pablo

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:39 PM

I can't hold my tongue any longer. I wasn't there, but I watched the video and heard the voices. I saw the phone calls, and I have heard both sides of the story.

Personally, I am sick of people applying chemicals to their tires. If you are putting it on your tires, you are putting in on the track. People are putting all sorts of "Mothers Milk" and "Motor Honey" on their tires, and it needs to stop right now. It sucked in 1968, it sucked in 1990, and it sucks now. Keep the glue in G27 and G7.

IRRA/SERRA need to make a new chemical rule NOW. Stop the Chemical Wars !

A SERRA Race Director admitted he made a mistake at SERRA # 20 and that is OK. BUT, when the captain of a ship makes a rule, it needs to apply to ALL the passengers, not just some.

SERRA owes Chad and Eddie an apology. The racers who continued to use chemicals (after being told at the drivers meeting not to) (other than Naptha for cleaning) should have been disqualified.
Chris, your lecture for Chad to attend R4 is overboard, and unfair. Chad deserves much more respect than that. Chad does not need to go anywhere, he is an honest, up front guy, no need to go to Ohio to learn anything !!!
Chad turn marshalled the race he protested !!! That is true blue man ! Unlike other SERRA regulars who fold their arms, talk to their buddies, make deliberately SLOW movements, and have a bad attitude when Marshalling (if your ears are burning when you read this, it MIGHT be YOU) Chad pays attention to his corner. Watch the video !

Raceworld Speedway is a super friendly raceway. I've been to many races there, and I always feel I'm treated fairly. Chad Herrington, his Mother and Father are first class people, they ALWAYS treat me good, and FAIR. One time I challenged them on their rules, and a detailed explanation was given, to my absolute satisfaction.

This is all just my opinion, and I welcome your comments. Just remember, I keep good notes, and I have witnesses :acute:
Paul Wolcott

#22 Chris Barnes

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 10:18 PM

Well, Pablo, you wanted my comments and you will have them. If I go back and read my "lecture", I am having a problem figuring out where inviting him to the R4 is overboard and unfair. What my comment stated is that Noose ABSOLUTELY goes by the rules letter for letter, and Jay has tried to make it easier for people to race in SERRA. No where in that comment am I overboard and unfair. I have to be teched at the R4 JUST THE SAME WAY as he would.

The "chemicals" used on the tires last weekend by the selected few are the same ones used at the R4 and most regions of IRRA. All of these organizations accept the use of these tire softeners mainly because they know how to use them. The tires must be wiped off before the car is put back on the track or the car will have no traction at all. These chemicals have been used in Eurosport racing for at least 15 years. It is not a traction additive, but a rubber softener.

Why do Eddie and Chad deserve an apology? They weren't even in that race. They were in the next race and were given the opportunity to put anything on their tires. They don't deserve an apology. If anyone does, it is those that were in the first race.

I am glad you enjoy racing and LaGrange. I have only raced there once and enjoyed it also. I was treated fairly by the entire Harrington family. That is not the issue here. The fact that Jay mentioned the use of Naptha only in the drivers meeting is apparently the only issue. If he had not mentioned it, would all of this issue not occurred? I really feel that he was trying to prevent glue being added to the tires. I don't know that, but I expect that was his intention. Even then, I would bet that glue was rubbed into tires by some. Just people were watching a select few and it was brought forth about the race winner.

I wasn't at the race, just like you Pablo. The rules have been mentioned many many times before that SERRA uses IRRA rules with the exception of the ProSlot motors. No traction additive was used by the racers in question. They ran just like they will at the R4.

#23 'Slots of Fun'

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:58 PM

My Chihuahua says "Stop putting all that splooge on your tires and the problem will go away!!"

"That means EVERYBODY!"


DSC01593.JPG


Hi Pablo,

Is your "killer pup" on his bed or yours?! :D Great picture! I love dogs. Bring him to 'Slots of Fun' on your next visit.

V/R,
Don
Don Berni (owner)
'Slots of Fun'
117 Trinity St
Abbeville, SC 29620
(864) 366-RACE

#24 Raceworld61

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 08:49 AM

Chris,

Eddie and I were in the race, just not that heat. We both marshalled the first heat. I was in the 90 going under the bridge and Eddie was at the top end of the lead on corner. We also chose to withdraw our entry for the second heat based on the weak ruling. Look at the results. We both had a DNS. No issues there, that was our choice. We felt like our choice was a good choice based of Jay's changing his words around between heats just to make the other 3 guys legal. Just because we were given the opportunity to add stuff to our tires didn't make it right.

I'll go even further to a conversation on Friday night with Jay and I. Which cam about when I put some of my tire prep on his tires while he was practicing. Which is made up of Naptha, glue and 2 other chemicals. Which is when he told me then that there would be no glue, no anything like that only lighter fluid to clean the tires. Which he reitterated Saturday morning at the drivers meeting. Which a certain three didn't adhere to.

Not to mention that Ralph even told Jay and Greg to pull his car from that heat just before the second one started. The results don't show it. While that race was running, I went and layed vinyl for a customer of mine. Ralph also trekked out the doors. I also yelled a few curse words about him needing to corner work. He responded that he wasn't because he had pulled his car from the event.

Bottom line is Chris, that regardless of who the race director is, if you hold a drivers meeting, stick to the guns you pulled on everybody. Don't be changing the game at halftime. If you found out your words were a mistake, change them and stand corrected at another meeting before the next class. But, thank you for your insight and wisdom. What is odd to me is that didn't you quit racing because of a ruling not made in your favor? I have heard of you acting the same way.
Chad Harrington - slot car bully and most of the time faster than you were!
5 Time National Champion

Raceworld Speedway

#25 Chris Barnes

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 01:09 PM

Chad, you know, I have probably been outspoken at a race. I can't remember, however, venting my frustrations of others on a public forum. Maybe you can help me out there.

As I said earlier, Jay was probably trying to prevent the use of glue on tires. Little did I know that you were planning on using something that contains just that. At the same time, I heard that you mentioned to Jay that you had already pre-treated your tires. If he told you that there would be no glue (as you stated above), doesn't that seem to be what he was addressing. The words " there would be no glue, no anything like that only lighter fluid" to me was addressed at specifically the glue. Apparently, you have a different opinion. We are allowed those.

As for Ralph offering to pull his car, yes he did. I think that Jay felt that after he asked the others in that race whether it would have changed the outcome of the race, there was not enough response to dis-qualify them. I watched the videos and listened with headphones to see how much was said. Honestly, there didn't seem to be many comments that thought it would make a difference. If these drivers really did have a problem, they should have said more to Jay and Greg instead of to others at the track.

You know, if I don't like the way things are being handled or disagree with the rules, then I won't race. I don't really think that I have caused the level of unrest that took place at this race. I wasn't there, but by reading those things on this thread, both present and removed, this was a very big mountain built out of a mole hill. Apparently, you are not satisfied with the way SERRA is being run. My best recommendation is to decline the invitation to have another race at your track and not attend future races. Believe it or not, there are people who LIKE the way Jay and Greg are running the organization. Why ruin it for these people? Maybe you need to start your own organization for Retro. I don't think there would be any objections from anyone. That way you can control the rules.

#26 Pablo

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 03:24 PM

I hear you, Chris, but I don't agree 100% :) .
The fact that we are discussing it is good.
I hope a way is found to prevent this from happening in the future.
The rules need to be clear, concise, and enforced to all equally.
The only rule I can find in IRRA is, the racers cannot glue the track. I can't find any rule that prevents racers from applying splooge to tires. If I am wrong, please correct me. If I am right, IRRA needs to rule on this.
MY suggestion: The ONLY material that may be applied to tires is lighter fluid and/or Zip Grip.

If this is not done, you will always have people putting strange chemicals in bottles, with some Wintergreen for smell, and call it Wintergreen.

You would be very surprized to know some of the chemicals some people are using.
Paul Wolcott

#27 Chris Barnes

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:11 PM

Pablo,

Believe it or not, but your suggestion is what is the accepted standard in the majority of the IRRA. ZipGrip/ZipFree is what was used by those in question at the race in LaGrange. Most of the time additives are not needed at our races. For some reason, the last two races, the traction has disappeared after practice and before the race. What these racers in question did was the alternatives that are allowed according to the rules. I don't think that there is much of a concern to make a ruling in IRRA on this because the problem doesn't typically exist at most races across the nation.

#28 Noose

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:18 PM

Pablo,

I don't think that there is much of a concern to make a ruling in IRRA on this because the problem doesn't typically exist at most races across the nation.



There hasn't been a problem anywhere else.

Zip Grip and Zip Free are the same except one does not have the wintergreen odor. Sticky fingers is also an Epic/Trinity product and it is like Zip Free; no wintergreen. All are tire treatments that are also used to clean tires. If you even tried to use Zip Grip wet you will not have a body left by the end of a lap. The stuff was not meant to be used in a wet form on the tires nor are the other two.

In over 3 years of racing retro I can only think of a couple of times where I had to use even lighter fluid to clean tires between heats because of the stuff the tires picked up from the track.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#29 Pablo

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:01 PM

Hi Joe :)

All are tire treatments that are also used to clean tires.


The label on Zip Grip says "FOAM TIRE TRACTION AND CONDITIONER"

In over 3 years of racing retro I can only think of a couple of times where I had to use even lighter fluid to clean tires between heats because of the stuff the tires picked up from the track.


I agree with that. So, why are so many people using Zip Grip ? To clean the tires ? Or ?

You may call it an isolated incident. SERRA has had chemical conflicts TWO races in a row.....where I come from, we call that a PATTERN. It needs to be addressed and fixed.
People are getting upset. I'm sure the SERRA leaders are upset. Probably at me, too.
The Raceway owner is upset. Customers on BOTH sides are upset. I'm upset. :wub:

We have a good thing going with Retro....I hope this can be resolved tomorrow.
Paul Wolcott

#30 Rusty Pinion

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 01:57 AM

<Quote Chad
I'll go even further to a conversation on Friday night with Jay and I. Which cam about when I put some of my tire prep on his tires while he was practicing. Which is made up of Naptha, glue and 2 other chemicals. Which is when he told me then that there would be no glue, no anything like that only lighter fluid to clean the tires. Which he reitterated Saturday morning at the drivers meeting. Which a certain three didn't adhere to.
End Quote>

Pablo......Looks to me that the guy your defending on this just shot your defense in the foot. :shok:

Also technically....in the rules under "Sportsmanship" there could have been penalties assesed for getting unruly with the SERRA officials.
"Waddaya mean, it won't pass tech?"
Hugh Dudley

#31 Wild Thang

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 11:31 AM

The things is most of us have tire prep n our boxs some have more than most. But why do we even need it with all the tires that r out there anymore. Chad, told me of what Jay had told him friday nite when i got there friday nite so we put on new tires that had no treatment and went 2 work on gettn the cars 2 work.
Ed Rowland

#32 Wild Thang

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 11:43 AM

4 me .I just want know what is legal 2 use cause diesel fuel will clean and soften tires , there r so may thing out there now it is crazy ( some of which could kill u or have u put n jail 4 have it) I remember when this got out of hand at the kart racing tracks it toke little kids bn sick and trailers burnin 2 the ground b4 someone put a stop 2 it. now at the dirt late model series they have out lawed it and have snifferns that check out tires..SO tell me what can b used b4 i show up with something that u guys dont like or cant get
Ed Rowland

#33 Jay Guard

Jay Guard

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:07 PM

This thread has already gone on way too long, all of the facts are out in the open for all to make their own opinions about. Now it's gotten totally out of control so it has been SANITIZED and LOCKED.

Jay Guard
Retro Racer &
Flat Track Fanatic






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