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#1 mcrone619

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 10:06 PM

Ha Guys
Anyone out ther try the new JK Hawk Motor yet?

I got on, ran a about 100 laps and it was smoked.
Was using a 12/35 set up and it was great on the track.
But just gave up.
I know I read the set up was best at a 9/36, Have another motor and will try that?
Any come backs?
Thanks Mike Crone
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Michael Crone




#2 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 01:47 AM

When they first came out, I posted the following recommending either a 8 or 9T pinion
and a 4 or 4.5-1 gear ratio.
You must of missed the post. At less then a 3-1 ratio, there was no chance of the motor living.
http://slotblog.net/...opic=19862&st=0
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Mike Swiss
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#3 Gun_N_4U

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:34 AM

I received 2 rtr cars x24 with hawk motors yesterday, put a body on one and put it out on the track, 1st lap it spun the pinion, I felt like it was really slow, went to a 11/36 and burn it up (smoked it) in 16 laps @ 4.7 sec around a 160' engleman . 9/10 times I buy a rtr from JK it strips the gear or pinion from not being soldiered in good.

If I have to run a 8 or 9 pinion on this motor it wont be any were fast as a falcon 7 nor a 16D.. 16Ds are running 4.7 11/36 on my engleman, this in a x24 or speed fx chassis and a bentley gtp body.. S16ds run 4.2 with a 11/37.. 5 out of 10 motors smoke or throw the winds..
I'll post some results of a 8 and 9 pinion on the second chassis. I think it comes 9/36 in the box..
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Roger Urquhart

#4 MantaRay

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:18 PM

Please do not take this the wrong way.........It sounds like you have the skills to change pinions and resolder motors back in......
Why do you continue to get RTR Cars? Just wondering? :)
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#5 Gun_N_4U

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 01:06 PM

Generally I dont buy rtrs, but I did in this case to get cought up on my builds for customers, I didnt have any x24s so I went for it, I fixed the motor and pinion and all is good, just disappointed that if I had sold it off the self it would have happen to them, as it has to me, thats just the chance I took because it has happen to me several times..
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Roger Urquhart

#6 Don Weaver

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:23 PM

I'm thinking about building a Pro Stock dragster with one of these motors. Going to use 1.15" rears.....any ideas on gearing?

Don Weaver
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#7 mcrone619

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:54 PM

When they first came out, I posted the following recommending either a 8 or 9T pinion
and a 4 or 4.5-1 gear ratio.
You must of missed the post. At less then a 3-1 ratio, there was no chance of the motor living.
http://slotblog.net/...opic=19862&st=0


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Michael Crone

#8 mcrone619

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:57 PM

Did you do any testing on how long the motor will last?
Is the 9/36the only way to go?
Does zapping do anything to the motor life?
Thanks Mike
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Michael Crone

#9 mcrone619

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:12 PM

I received 2 rtr cars x24 with hawk motors yesterday, put a body on one and put it out on the track, 1st lap it spun the pinion, I felt like it was really slow, went to a 11/36 and burn it up (smoked it) in 16 laps @ 4.7 sec around a 160' engleman . 9/10 times I buy a rtr from JK it strips the gear or pinion from not being soldiered in good.

If I have to run a 8 or 9 pinion on this motor it wont be any were fast as a falcon 7 nor a 16D.. 16Ds are running 4.7 11/36 on my engleman, this in a x24 or speed fx chassis and a bentley gtp body.. S16ds run 4.2 with a 11/37.. 5 out of 10 motors smoke or throw the winds..
I'll post some results of a 8 and 9 pinion on the second chassis. I think it comes 9/36 in the box..


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Michael Crone

#10 68Caddy

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:12 PM

Mike my friend I think that Ron said the right thing about this motors. ;)

Well we all know that "cheap" motors with Asian arms are both cheap and have problems with quality and being reliable.

Considering the P-S and Hawk arms are made in the same factory....if one has problems, the other brand will as well. Lack of and use of proper expoxy is the biggest problems.

You could institute a "gear rule" that will add "life" to the motors. Sure they might go slower, but they will last longer.

I guess I have to ask if your happy with the Falcon 7's, then why look for another motor that's going to cause problems??

It makes sense to me but ......


Nesta
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- Gabriel
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#11 mcrone619

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:16 PM

I did not get the set up> Did you smoke 5 out of 10 motors?
The motor I ran smoked to, but it was fast at 12/ 35.
Put the next one I am using a 10/36. WE WILL SEE?
MIKE
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Michael Crone

#12 mcrone619

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:20 PM

Mike my friend I think that Ron said the right thing about this motors. ;)

It makes sense to me but ......


Nesta


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Michael Crone

#13 mcrone619

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:23 PM

Hi Bela
Yes you are right.
But always looking for some thing new and cheep?
You should come and race with us tomorrow and you can see the hawk and its smoke too?:D

Mike
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Michael Crone

#14 68Caddy

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:37 PM

I will try to make it, you know I have a appointment in the morning but I will do the best I can do to be there. ;)
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- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#15 MSwiss

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:06 AM

Did you do any testing on how long the motor will last?
Is the 9/36the only way to go?
Does zapping do anything to the motor life?
Thanks Mike

I haven't tested any personally.
I've been too busy with just recently moving my raceway.

In Jerry's testing, he had good luck with either 8-36 or 9-36.
I think he said he ran about 10 motors for about 20-30 minutes each.

What you can get away with has a lot to do with how much power you run on
and how sticky the track is.
  • 0

Mike Swiss
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#16 Don Weaver

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 07:41 AM

I'm thinking about building a Pro Stock dragster with one of these motors. Going to use 1.15" rears.....any ideas on gearing?

Don Weaver



Forgot to say I'll be running on 1/8th mile track.

Don Weaver
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#17 Phil Irvin

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 08:27 PM

;) ;)

When I got into RETRO. I asked what to gear the F7.. I was told 9/27. I had a 26/27/28/29 so was able to try. On a long track, swoopy track 26 worked & they got worm but not bad enough. On a short track. They got HOT. So went to 28 and they cooled off.
When I got the PUPPY DOGs. I was told "as small a pinion & as large a crown you can fit.....RIIIGHT...All I had was a 8/29.....It was slower than my F7 & got HOT...I went an angled 7/29 and WONDERS OF WONDERS :shok: ....It RAN better than most F7s and COOLER........Put a set of Gold Dust in it and now it is the motor for a fast swoopy track. I understand they are made by the same company, using a lot of the same parts so 4 to 4.5 sounds like the way to go.. :D ..

OLPHRT
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#18 Mike Walpole

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 09:53 PM

I'm 0 for 2. Both Hawks I tried threw winds. Neither ran long enough to make it through a race. 2nd one wouldn't have lasted a heat.
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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 02:07 AM

Mike,
I recommended 8-36 or 9-36.
With the downforce of a wing car, you should of went on the conservative side.(an 8)
Instead you tried 11-38 and 10-38.
I try to tell you guys what to run, but you insist on puting double-digit pinions on.

As I said in one of my other posts, the Hawk isn't a $15 dollar G12 motor.
It's something, if geared right,that might be a little faster than a Falcon 7 and can be rebuilt.
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Mike Swiss
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#20 Mike Walpole

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:21 PM

Geared it 9/38. Ran about 150 laps and it threw a wind. Actually did it twice.

We tested one in a Flexi today geared 9/40, it's about a tenth slower than a Falcon 7.
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#21 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 10:08 PM

FWIW

Pro Slot offers more than one line of motors with Chinese arms. They suffer from the same problems for the most part. The C-can imports have good magnets, good cans and endbells (except for endbell bushings that fall out) and useless brushes. The Chinese arms are, in a word, junk, but inexpensive... which makes them wonderfully attractive to slot racers who, as a community, don't seem to understand grade school arithmetic or the true meaning of "you get what you pay for." I smoked more of the Pro Slot Chinese x-12 arms than you would probably believe. I switched the affected customer's motors to US armatures and problem solved. The Euro and the SpeedFX 16D are more of the same. Good can, endbell (same loose bushing fault), and magnets. Arm not so good, but better than the alternative. It's also absolutely true that the Pro Slot US armatures for those motors are vastly superior to the Chinese.

IMO, if you can't take the simple advice of a man with a wealth of experience and success in slot racing you really shouldn't bitch.

Also IMO, the 'logic' that states the Hawk will be similar to the PS Euro because it's made by the same folks is erroneous. IF the same spec parts are used AND the same profit margins are employed, THEN they MIGHT be similar. If not, they won't. EOS.

Also IMO, attempting to build any kind of racing series around a crap spec motor is stupid. Also EOS.
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#22 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 10:57 PM

Geared it 9/38. Ran about 150 laps and it threw a wind. Actually did it twice.

We tested one in a Flexi today geared 9/40, it's about a tenth slower than a Falcon 7.

I'm guessing the 9/38 was with a wing car?
Did you run it 150 laps in a row or in 3 minute increments with 2 minute intermissions?

If the 9/40 in a flexi ran cool, you can then get more aggressive with the gearing.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA™ Components Committee Chairman
Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address)
 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#23 Mike Walpole

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 08:53 AM

Yes, it was a wing car. A Box12 4.610 chassis, an 052R Viper w/ no rear wing. I never ran more than about 25 laps at a time. The can was cool, but the arm was pretty warm. I think the best time I saw was a 3.58. Both times the arm threw a wind w/ in 5 laps of being put on the track after a cooling off period.

In the Flexi the can and the arm were pretty warm after 25 laps. It wasn't my car though. He was running 4.3s with it. By comparison we run 3.9 with the same setup and 16Ds. I was running 4.2s with a Retro Flexi w/ a Falcon 7. The same car is about .15 faster with a GT1 body.

Let's just say at this point - I'm finished messing with it.
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#24 mcrone619

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:52 AM

Geared it 9/38. Ran about 150 laps and it threw a wind. Actually did it twice.

We tested one in a Flexi today geared 9/40, it's about a tenth slower than a Falcon 7.


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Michael Crone

#25 mcrone619

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:56 AM

Are you running a 64 pitch or a 48 pitch gear?
I though a 48 has more drag?
Better mesh with a 64, But dose not come in any smaller then a 35.

Mike
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Michael Crone

#26 mcrone619

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:21 AM

FWIW

Pro Slot offers more than one line of motors with Chinese arms. They suffer from the same problems for the most part. The C-can imports have good magnets, good cans and endbells (except for endbell bushings that fall out) and useless brushes. The Chinese arms are, in a word, junk, but inexpensive... which makes them wonderfully attractive to slot racers who, as a community, don't seem to understand grade school arithmetic or the true meaning of "you get what you pay for." I smoked more of the Pro Slot Chinese x-12 arms than you would probably believe. I switched the affected customer's motors to US armatures and problem solved. The Euro and the SpeedFX 16D are more of the same. Good can, endbell (same loose bushing fault), and magnets. Arm not so good, but better than the alternative. It's also absolutely true that the Pro Slot US armatures for those motors are vastly superior to the Chinese.

IMO, if you can't take the simple advice of a man with a wealth of experience and success in slot racing you really shouldn't bitch.

Also IMO, the 'logic' that states the Hawk will be similar to the PS Euro because it's made by the same folks is erroneous. IF the same spec parts are used AND the same profit margins are employed, THEN they MIGHT be similar. If not, they won't. EOS.

Also IMO, attempting to build any kind of racing series around a crap spec motor is stupid. Also EOS.


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Michael Crone

#27 mcrone619

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:27 AM

Yes you are right.
But we are trying to get new people in the sport of slot cars. New track in El Cajon Raceway, CA.
And we all went to go fast.
So just looking to get the racers hooked and then we will get them in to better motors.
Mike
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Michael Crone

#28 Ron Hershman

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:40 AM

Yes you are right.
But we are trying to get new people in the sport of slot cars. New track in El Cajon Raceway, CA.
And we all went to go fast.
So just looking to get the racers hooked and then we will get them in to better motors.
Mike


Get them hooked by motor choice and speed?

OK so we have the 14.00 motors.... Parma and P-S 16-D motors or Falcon 7 and the New Hawk.

Falcon 7 motors don't have a long life span..... three to four races and must buy another new motor.

Parma and P-S 16-D motors....... longer life span... less money spent over all.

Hawk....... a viable option...... time will tell. When the Chinese arm blows up, one can always install a American made Puppy Dog or Big Dog arm in the set-up for $ 24.50 and have a long lasting and fast motor.

If racers are buying cheap priced motors for 14 bucks a piece and having problems with them...how long do they give up and walk out the door and never come back???? Buy four Falcons and you could have purchased a Group 20 motor that will blow all of the 14 buck motors off the track and last more than 16 races.

The alternative is motors with American made arms in them..... while a bit more pricey at 40 to 50 bucks, they will last a very long time and go as fast or even faster than any of the 14.00 motors.

It all comes down to you get what you pay for.

Try any of these for faster performance and long lasting value...

PS-4002B Euro MK 1 Motor - with American made PD (Puppy Dog) armature as used in retro can am racing $41.00

PS-4002C Euro MK1 Motor with American made BD (Big Dog) armature $41.00

PS-2103 Motor with PS-700 S16D Unbalanced Armature $47.45
PS-2104 Motor with PS-700 S16D Balanced Armature $42.45
PS-2105 Motor with PS-700S Outlaw S16D Balanced Armature $42.45
PS-2106 Motor with PS-706 16D Unbalanced Armature $42.45
PS-2107 Motor with PS-706 16D Balanced Armature $46.80

PS-723 Group 12 Motor $46.75
PS-723D Group 12 Motor with drill blank $50.75
PS-728 USRA Spec 15 Motor, 38 degrees $46.75
PS-728A USRA Spec 15 Motor with Drill blank, 38 degrees $50.75

PS-729 Contender Motor - unbalanced $43.75
PS-729B Contender Motor - balanced $43.75
PS-730 Group 20 Motor $53.75
PS-732 Super Wasp Motor $44.75
PS-734 Super 16C Motor $40.00

You can have any of the above motors for the same cost as 4 14 buck motors, go way faster and last way longer.
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#29 Noose

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:49 AM

PS-2103 Motor with PS-700 S16D Unbalanced Armature $47.45
PS-2104 Motor with PS-700 S16D Balanced Armature $42.45




Are these prices reversed?
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#30 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 11:49 AM

Are these prices reversed?


Nope. Per the Pro Slot Web site, the unbalanced armature motor is five bucks more. Go figure.:rolleyes:

Michael Rigsby
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