32 replies to this topic

[TSR]

Just minutes ago...
The battle has begun and inexplicably, Casey Stoner who was more than likely dominate the first MotoGP of the year in Losail, Qatar, lost the front end while comfortably leading and dumped the Ducati.
So the multiple world champ. Valentino Rossi, won again despite a definite disadvantage in top speed from the works Honda. His team mate Jorge Lorenzo came back from a mediocre start to finish second on the other FIAT sponsored Yamaha.

American Nicky Hayden had his best race since 2008, ending in 4th on the other Ducati, barely beaten by Andrea Dovizioso on the very fast Honda.
The Duck will be back!

[Old pink can guy]

Thanks for the up date MRP. What has happened. King Kenny Edie Lawson And Wayne Rainey. Wayne was the coolest guy you could ever meet. Bumped into him at ascot and other places. He was so nice and would give you all the time he could to speak with you. A true Champion of the Comon People.

[TSR]

Well, Nicky is just as nice if a little crazy...

[Dr. Gamma]

BRING BACK 500cc GRAND PRIX BIKES

BRING BACK 250cc GRAND PRIX BIKES

Heck with these oil and gas separators. The 250cc GP bikes WERE the best racing there was last year, now they went to these glorified 600cc 4 stroke street bike motors in moto 2. REAL MEN RODE 500cc GRAND PRIX BIKES.....SHEENE.....ROBERTS.....LAWSON.....RAINEY.....SCHWANTZ.......EVEN ROSSI DID!!!! Think I will go take my RG 500 for a ride!!!

[TSR]

Bring back the classes as they used to be: 50cc, 125cc, 250cc, 350cc 500cc and sidecars. Now that was a lot more fun!

[chaparrAL]

Is that you Dokk?

[TSR]

Nope. That's 2-time world champ Hans Anscheidt on the 2-cylinder, 12-gear 50cc Suzuki at Assen, Holland, in 1968.

19HP from 3.2ci.

How about this one: 1966 Honda 5-cylinder 125cc, revving at 23000 RPM?

[Rick]

In a time long long ago and a place far far away......................

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Yep those 50cc had to have all those gears and "rowed" the gearbox so many times a lap!

I had a little Honda 50 C110??? pressed frame bike and when I heard about the 50's in Europe it blew me away! These were so pipey you had to keep them cranked tight and rolling or you got freight trained if you had to roll out of the throttle even just a little. All RPM and gears!
Those were the days!
I agree the 500 cc 2 strokes were the best! But we will never see them again (or hear them) Those were the days!

We have bigger tires on beach cruzers out here then the old 50's had!

[Old pink can guy]

Dokk I am gonna have you or Greg the Cheater clue me in to post pictures. I have some stuff From ascot park that is so good. My father started taking me their when i was 5 or six years old. Firday nite flat track Half mile. I saw some of the great people in the sport do their magic and it it was all good. MR P you blow me away with your Knowelege Ove All things Dam you are good!!!

[Dr. Gamma]

Nope. That's 2-time world champ Hans Anscheidt on the 2-cylinder, 12-gear 50cc Suzuki at Assen, Holland, in 1968.

19HP from 3.2ci.

Was there a 3 cylinder 50cc Suzuki?? Did they have a 50cc Suzuki with more than 12 speed trans, I thought Suzuki had one that was almost 20 speeds before the FIM said no more than 1 cylinder, and 6 or 7 speeds transmissions. I always wanted to hear one of those 5 cylinder 125cc GP Honda's from the 60's. Would love to take apart one of those motors just to have a close look at those valve sizes among other things in that motor!!! Can you imagine cutting the valve seats on a 25cc 4 valve chamber!!! Bring back the old days, TZ's, the RG's, and all the things that made GP racing great back in the day. I can smell the R30 already!!!!!

[Rick]

OMG, I have this mental image of Barney on a 50cc cycle.

[HarV Wallbanger III]

OK Rick, I was not always a Big Ol' Dude! I'm sure you out weighted me at birth! ( I was 4.5 lbs.!) But when I had the 50 I was a 150 or so. But 4 of us kids in our neighborhood had the same Hondas and mine was the fastest with my butt on it! ( 47mph on slight downhill )

[TSR]

Was there a 3 cylinder 50cc Suzuki?? Did they have a 50cc Suzuki with more than 12 speed trans, I thought Suzuki had one that was almost 20 speeds before the FIM said no more than 1 cylinder, and 6 or 7 speeds transmissions. I always wanted to hear one of those 5 cylinder 125cc GP Honda's from the 60's. Would love to take apart one of those motors just to have a close look at those valve sizes among other things in that motor!!! Can you imagine cutting the valve seats on a 25cc 4 valve chamber!!! Bring back the old days, TZ's, the RG's, and all the things that made GP racing great back in the day. I can smell the R30 already!!!!!

Both Honda and Suzuki, which both already had 2-cylinder 50cc GP bikes, were indeed in the process of developing 3-cylinder engines, but had already quit factory racing when the FIM ban on multi-cylinder engines took place in 1970. The largest number of gears ever recorded in these small displacement motorcycles, that were capable, with only 3.2ci, of over 110mph speeds, was 14. The 1967 50cc Suzuki RK67 had that many gears in its casing, due to the extremely narrow usable power band. The 1967 Suzuki 2-stroke, disc-valve engine developed 19HP at 16500rpm, while the 1966 Honda RC116, 2-cylinder, 4-stroke, twin-cam 4-valve had less power at 17HP at 23000rpm, but a more usable torque range and 10-speed cluster.



This is the engine of the tiny 2-cylinder Honda. The valves were no bigger than a dime, but the engine was excellent and incredibly reliable.



Here, Ralph Bryans laps the Hockenheim track only a few seconds slower than Giacomo agostini on the 500cc MV Agusta that was the MotoGP world champion then, this with a motorcycle displacing 1/10th of the MV... please note the front disc brake using the wheel rim for friction material.

Compared to that, we, the privateers, had to fend off with single-cylinder machinery and no more than 8 gears, mostly ex-works Spanish-built Derbi racers with disc valve and water cooling, but cranking 14HP or less. Here is mine at the 1968 Dutch TT in Assen:



A rare picture (because Honda was very secretive of their engineering) of the RC149, 125cc, 5-cylinder engine, basically 5 of the 50cc cylinders put together as a transverse inline engine. The engine measured less than 12" in length and developed 43HP at 21000rpm, this with conventional valve springs. The top speed was slightly above 140mph.



Yes, these were raced like 45 years ago, but for my money, nothing since has ever been even close to provide the same excitement and the same interest.
The old saying, "these were the days" is totally justified in this case.

[Dr. Gamma]

FANTASTIC PICTURES!!!!! THANKS FOR POSTING THEM!!!!! I just caught the brake setup on the front wheel of the Honda. Unreal. Still have your 50cc Derbi???

[Jaz]

Enlighten me here, please. I seem to have mixed up the two classes of moto racing I see on TV. The one you guys are talking about is the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix, correct? This past weekend I was watching the FIM World Superbike Championship.

What are the differences? I was kinda confused that the race I watched, there were names missing. Now I realize there are two different series. Someone please set me straight.

Either way, the racing is awesome. 0.029 0.029

[Mopar Rob]

Thanks for the up date MRP. What has happened. King Kenny Edie Lawson And Wayne Rainey. Wayne was the coolest guy you could ever meet. Bumped into him at ascot and other places. He was so nice and would give you all the time he could to speak with you. A true Champion of the Comon People.

Is this a rethorical question? If not Wayne landed up Paralyzed.

[Dr. Gamma]

Enlighten me here, please. I seem to have mixed up the two classes of moto racing I see on TV. The one you guys are talking about is the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix, correct? This past weekend I was watching the FIM World Superbike Championship.

What are the differences? I was kinda confused that the race I watched, there were names missing. Now I realize there are two different series. Someone please set me straight.

Either way, the racing is awesome. 0.029 0.029

World Championship Grand Prix Road Racing are motorcycles that have been designed from the ground up to be nothing but true road race bikes. The only thing they have in common with their manufacturers street bikes are the decals on the tank that read Honda, or Yamaha!!!

World Superbike Championship Road Racing are motorcycles that are based on a streetbike that is sold to the general public as a streetbike. The manufacturers have to make available to the public so many of that model of bike before it is legal for Superbike racing.

[TSR]

Still have your 50cc Derbi???

I wish... but at least three of my former rides have survived, but they are from the mid-1970s. Both are 125cc twin, water-cooled, one of my own engineering/fabrication, the other a works bike that was entrusted to me:



The two above, plus this one:



Two are in the LASCM in Los Angeles, the last one in the Morbidelli Museum in Pesaro, Italy.
The 1975 Morbidelli are works bikes, only 5 built, disc-valve induction, 6 speeds, 45HP at 15000rpm and speed well in excess of 150mph.
3-times world champ in 1975-1976-1977.

[Dr. Gamma]

WOW!!!! Nice collection there!!!! I can't read what it said, but I caught the Hurley Wilvert, old #39, and Bob Hansen of Team Hansen in there. I remember reading a great article back then about the 125cc Morbidelli!! It was the best of the best!!! Thanks again for sharing your great looking collection of bikes!!!

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Thanks for posting Dokk! I love this old stuff!

[Jaz]

Ahh....so MotoGP is like Group 7 and Superbikes are like Box Stock's.

got it

[TSR]

Jeff, you got that right.
To give you an idea, a 125cc GP bike was as fast around Ontario Motor Speedway in 1975 as a 1-liter Kawasaki "production" bike as used in the Superbike class.
The most exotic 50cc GP bikes were faster than the 250cc "production" racers.

[TSR]

Found this on the 14-speed, twin 50cc Suzuki:





Last version was claimed to have 21HP at 20000rpm. No two-stroke engine ever revved faster before or since. This was 1968.

Now for the 3-cylinder that never raced:



That's another 14 ratios to pick from...



The 3 pistons and separate cranks, the pistons are barely 1" in diameter...

[Dr. Gamma]

THANKS for more neat old pictures of the great days of racing past!!! I like how Suzuki in both motors use a layshaft (hope thats the right term for it) for the output shaft on transmission. Looks like shift drum is a real work of art down under trans. Bet the mechanics back then hated hearing the rider say, its jumping out of 9th, or was that 10th, or maybe it was 12th!!!! And all this back in the 60's!!! Speed Channel has got real race bikes on right now---125cc GP bikes.