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The Duffy Diaries #1: Vanwall


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#1 Duffy

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:37 PM

It's like this: as I've been pushing Rick Thigpen towards Lost Causes, so has he shoved me kicking and screaming towards "Peryod-Korrekt" builds, going so far as to toss PK parts & bits my way to get me started. I figure it's Time...

It started with this '58 Vanwall, repopped by Howmet from a Fate contribution, a body so amiably corpulent that I just had to put it out on the track and let the Fast Guys gape! (There're stories about Colin Chapman making snarky comments about this car, anybody wanna chime in?)

VanBod1.jpg

And I have an assortment of inline motors and stock chasses to pick from; most likely I'll do a pretty generic build of boughten parts around this nice Aristo-Craft mill from Rick.

VanMill1.jpg

... with Russkit rims all around; Revell Dunlops on the front, hewn-down Germans on the back.

VanWheels1.jpg

But, what really got this one going, though, is the happy combination of this photo--

VanMoss2.jpg

- And this 1/24 driver!!

VanMoss1.jpg

Sometime this week, inbetween my obligatory visit to the track (I try to get over there at least twice between major glacial episodes) and my tax audit, I'm gonna take casts of this head and body and stuff Mossie into his new office. THIS is the part I really live for! Keep y'all posted.

Duffy
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#2 Larry Mattingly

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:43 PM

That driver looks like he has been 'exhumed' from the grave... :laugh2:

Nothing a little body putty won't cure.

Always like the looks of the Vanwall... reminded me of an Indy roadster.

LM

#3 Joe Mig

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:51 PM

Duffy: I could cut and mount the German rubber if you want me to. :D
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#4 Duffy

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 06:02 PM

That driver looks like he has been 'exhumed' from the grave...Nothing a little body putty won't cure.

Yah, for once the camera is NOT kind. It's a tiny scale, though, and I'll fill in my first cast to get a better mould. This original's not for prepping. It's a one-off that John Bacon did for Rocky Russo, the Mille Miglia Mercedes with Moss & Jenkinson:

Merc300SLR Moss Jenks.jpg

I'll see about cleaning up my dub, but the rough-cut original really captures the look of the two instantly. Maybe just fill in the pits & let it alone after that.

Duffy: I could cut and mount the German rubber if you want me to.

Thanks, I'm tooling up for this, too. Just slightly beyond the Lost Cause Tech Rule of "Anything attainable by a twelve-year-old boy with his Dad's hand drill" but still reasonable. I'll post pics when it happens.
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#5 idare2bdul

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 01:11 AM

The Mille Miglia Mercedes with Moss & Jenkinson is just too cool for words.
The light at the end of the tunnel is almost always a train.
Mike Boemker

#6 dc-65x

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 09:11 AM

Hi Mikey,

Man that Vanwall looks like it turned out really nice :wub: . Vov, you done good again :) ! Can’t wait for “Da Box” to show up.

Have fun Duffy and thanks for sharing,

Kaptain (somewhat) Korrrect

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#7 TSR

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 09:55 AM

(There're stories about Colin Chapman making snarky comments about this car, anybody wanna chime in?)

I don't see why since Chapman was involved in its engineering.
Frank Costin designed its very efficient body, and the car won the constructor title for UK, the first British car to ever do so.
The Vanwall (name composed from owner Tony Vanderwell and "Thinwall", the name of its engine bearings that equipped virtually all GP engines then) was the best GP car in 1957 and 1958, period. Its four-cylinder engine was derived from the cylinder head design from the Norton Manx motorcycle.

Tony Brooks, Stirling Moss, Maurice Trintignant and Stewart Lewis-Evans were the Vanwall regular drivers.

MRRC made the first Vanwall slot car bodies in the form of a vacuum formed 1/32 scale model in 1958.

#8 Prof. Fate

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 12:40 PM

Hi,

I think Duffy was thinking in terms of a geek account I gave him about the aero thinking that crowd was going through in the era. Costin was obsessed with smooth airflow (somehow not "seeing" the suspension and tires sticking out) and Chapman followed with the "mini-Vanwal" in the form of the Lotus 16. Which was a failure. Then went to the 18 which had no pretense of working for a smooth airflow. And his detractors called the 18 a "breadbox on wheels".

In the day, My Vanwall had a 36D!

Bob Schliecher and Ron Knight both had one with Pittman 704s.

Fate
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#9 dc-65x

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 01:24 PM

Hey Duffy,

Fate’s given you something to think about there. That V-wall is BIG! Maybe stuff it with some big honker of a motor??? The Aristo would fit a lot of smaller cars that the big honker motors won't.

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#10 Duffy

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 04:33 PM

Hm. Yah, the little inlines do look kind of comical in there, and I got a couple of more reasonable GP cars I could apply them to. I was taking an easy way out last night.

704, huh?

Hm. I must think on this.

Duffy
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#11 TSR

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 04:38 PM

... and Chapman followed with the "mini-Vanwal" in the form of the Lotus 16. Which was a failure.

It was unreliable in the day, but today it is the car to have if you want to win in the front-engine class. With their 2.5 Climax engines, they simply clean the clock of any Maserati 250F or Ferrari V6 or V12 clones. :)

You can make a nice one using the Scalextric vintage body, but it is too large for a true 1/32 scale model.

#12 Duffy

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 05:41 PM

In addition to thinking three impossible things before breakfast, it seems I can engineer at least two outrageous structures before cooking dinner, and my family's getting mighty frustrated with it. But, ya know...

... Holding up different mills to that arguably-slippery shape, I find I can land a 704 or a DC-222 right in there, sure; BUUUUT, if I can bear to hang the spur gear outside the body, I could get a 36D in there, SIDEWAYS. Howz' ZAT?? Yup, I could do a "Brassed-Off Dynamic" just like Pablo, 65x et al are doing!!

"Just wait'll you see the weird part."

Duffy
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#13 don.siegel

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 05:36 AM

Duffy,

If you want to see what a 704 setup looks like in one of these cars, here's a period Porsche F2, probably built by Robert Schleicher in fact. It's got a modified 704, or maybe even a 703... A vac-form body, possibly Stormer. No speed demon, but goes pretty well.

Don

Posted Image

Posted Image

#14 Prof. Fate

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 11:30 AM

Hi,

The weight is too tidy for Bob's work! He would just melt solder around the chassis then... and you could still see parts of the coil. Might be Ron Knight's effort.

Also, it is in Rob Walker's colors, and I don't think Bob would do that either. It would have been in orange, knowing Bob. No point in ASKING, though. Bob doesn't remember things like this. In the past when someone asks, he asks ME if he did it!

Grin.

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#15 TSR

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 12:13 PM

Bob doesn't remember things like this.

Actually he does not remember much because it is pretty clear reading his old articles in the various magazines that he did not SEE much of what was going on.

Don, what is the driver of that Porsche doing, looking for his Coke bottle that fell on the aluminum floor? :)

#16 don.siegel

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 12:33 PM

He's praying to the Gods of Nurburgring that I'll find some glue for his rear end!

Rocky, I showed the car to Bob, and, if I remember right (he's not the only one who doesn't remember stuff!), it was indeed his car, but he wasn't the one who reworked the motor.

Anyway, the point is that, yes, you can get a Pittman in a 50s F1 car!

Don

#17 Duffy

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 04:39 PM

Don, what is the driver of that Porsche doing, looking for his Coke bottle that fell on the aluminum floor?


I just figured it was Gurney, sitting about the same way he fit in ALL the Porsches!

Anyway, the point is that, yes, you can get a Pittman in a 50s F1 car!


Oh, sure, and I've got a 704 here that would fit nicely after a LOT of cleaning-up. But we're probably leaning toward a 36D at this time; and, sadly, inline...got talked out of the sidewinder w/visible gearing.

Gotta search around for some Arco magnets now. More later.

Duffy



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#18 Prof. Fate

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:14 PM

Hi

I think your "704" is actually the Strombecker Copy. I think called "devastator".

Fate
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#19 Horsepower

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:10 PM

Put the Hemi 400 in it! :clapping: :bomb: :dance4:
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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:12 PM

Hi

I think your "704" is actually the Strombecker Copy. I think called "devastator".

Fate

Rocky, did you see any difference between the Pittman and Strombecker 705/706 type motors? I remember the RPM rating being about the same. :) I can't remember if one or the other actually ran better.
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#21 Duffy

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 07:45 PM

After more homework--yup, Devastator. I've also got a formidable bid up on PayBay for the Kemtron version, so something oughta happen soon. And yes, having this pristine Hemi right here in front of me is a pow'ful motivator.

This is turning into two projects, now; having a variety of reely attractive motors AND two wildly different chasses, I don't want to choose between 'em. My biggest challenge right now is finding the time!--between work and parenting and husbanding (and making an appearance at the local track at least twice a month), my recreation hours are mighty dear. I admit that part of posting this is to catch a ride on all the enthusiasm from you lot, obligating ME to deliver!

And I have still to paint my SteamPunk King Cobra and get that out on the road. BusyBusyBusy.

Duffy
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#22 Prof. Fate

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:13 PM

Hi

The 706 looks different from the others. And it seems to me that the surface quality is better on the pittman 704s than the clones. I haven't run them directly against each other in years. I THINK the Stromie was slightly faster wind. But the best/hottest version was by RAM about 2 years after the others. My experience was that before there were commercial tracks everywhere, many of us, like EM and I were running on smaller club type tracks. The 704 layout was very effective then with the tires we could do, usually converted from model airplanes or hand cast silicone, and the usual 8 to 12 foot straights. We even had charts on which gears for the spacing to change the gear ratio. But except for running my survivors as is, I haven't really done anything with them since 1963.

The RAM came out later. I had a blown 704 in a car that I had rewound in the day that I have replaced with the RAM and it is faster than the others by a bunch.

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#23 dc-65x

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 01:02 PM

Here's a link to the RAM version:

Ram XL500...Going...Going...Man, it's GONE!

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#24 Duffy

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 03:16 PM

...HUH. So that's how it's done. I'll look around for one of those, Rick.
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#25 dc-65x

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:24 PM

Hi Duffy,

No worries, I don't know "the" way to do any of this stuff. I just muddle through and find "a" way to do things. The things I tried with that motor will work with any of the RAM, Pittman and Strombecker breed. The 3/32" tubes soldered on to the motor help reinforce the formally crimped connections and are the also for inserting pin tube frame rails for a space frame chassis. Just food for thought.......

Have fun!

Rick

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