New Can-Am chassis R&D
#1
Posted 07 May 2010 - 03:37 AM
Testing at FTH on the (flat) King with modest bite. A very good time under these conditions is 5.20-5.30. No motor switching was done. Weights listed are without body and with weights added as shown.
This design has been my most universally successful. I have won with it at FTH and Frank's. It has won once as a loaner and finished 2nd twice as a loaner and finished 2nd in the "A" @ Buena Park. I have two versions that run identically. One (just sold) is 2 rails of .063 spaced. This one is 3 rails of .055 wire on a Warmack nosepiece. WB=3.960, GL=.900 Weight=115g
Best time was 5.31 with full width JK 8713P, TSR geared 9-29, MAC Ferrari 312.
Car was solid, easy to drive as always, not spectacular in any way.
This is my first "tripod". I have a win and a second along with a DNF and a podium as a loaner. This car is fast and solid but doesn't work everywhere. JK nosepiece, JK hypoid bracket, JK pans. It is 2 rails of .063, WB=3.960 GL=.950 wt=107gr
Best time was 5.30 with JK 813P, a fairly tired Falcon 7 (8-26)O/S '69 Ferrari 312
I had a chance to try a tripod built by Craig Correja of SoCal that belonged to Herman James. That car was spectacularly fast but hard to drive. My critique was that it was too short and had too much flex. This car was built as a copy but longer and with a .032 wire torsion bar to stiffen the front half and a stouter bite bar in the rear. This car has raced once with a convincing win. JK nose, JK hypoid bracket, all rails .063 wire. The angled rails are solid at the rear but can twist in a tube in the front. This car is smooth as glass and so far I think it can run everywhere. WB=3.960, GL=.780, wt=103.7g
Best time was 5.22 with JK 8713P F-7 (9-29)O/S long nose Ti-22.
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OK here are the new ones.... these have not been raced as yet. All just hit the track for the first time this week.
This is a three rail tripod with two of the rails floating in tubes. Center rail is solid .063. Middle rail is .074 wire floating, angled rail is .063 floating. JK nosepiece, JK non hypoid bracket, Warmack guide tongue. WB=3.960, GL=.920, wt=102.6g
Best time 5.17 JK 8763 PT, TSR 9-29, G-Force Ti-22. (exceptional motor) Smooth, easy to drive. Never had to change or tune this car at all. It was good from the first lap.
Next up is a new (to me) design. This was inspired by looking at the weight distribution on GT12 cars. Inner rail is .063, outer rails are .063 floating. Pans are 1/4" x .062 on a torsion plumber rail. This car does not have tilt pans. Rear weight blocks are .063 brass with each one weighing about 4.0g. JK nose, JK hypoid bracket, Warmack Guide tongue. WB=3.960, GL= .860, wt=109g.
Best time 5.15 TSR (9-29, 8-27) Fastest body was O/S Ti-22 narrow nose, most consistent body was O/S Bloom Waters Ferrari.
This car is very odd. It handled like it was short and light but it's neither. Super quick and very tight at first, it took moving from untreated tires to treated, to narrowed treated tires. Then added about 3g of lead at front. Finally went from (9-29) to (8-27) gears. Tested several bodies with the BW Ferrari being the one I'd choose to race.
Really fast car but a little scary
Last one... I built this one last night after testing the above car. I wanted a little more forgiving and less critical car. 2 rail .063, inner rail solid, outer rail floating. Hinged pans with the pivot tubes on the outer rail(no separate hinge setup). rear blocks are .063 brass about 6g ea. JK nose heavily cut up, JK pans cut to 1/4" wide, JK non hypoid bracket, Warmack guide tongue. wb=3.960, GL=.800, wt=106g.
Best time 5.11, JK 8763 PT, Falcon (9-29, 8-27) O/S Ti-22 narrow nose, O/S Bloom Watters Ferrari, MAC Lola T-160. This car was easier to drive than the one above right away.It didn't feel as quick but the timer told a different story. The (9-29) gearing felt noticeably faster but again, the timer said (8-27) was better. The bodies were the same as to feel and times. Really good car.
These new cars are very good with the caveat being I haven't tried them anywhere except the FTH King so far. This track is very flat for a King and corner speeds are fairly slow. I suspect that 9t pinions will work better at Eddies where the corners are faster. The body testing confirmed that there is no major advantage between the Lola, the Ferrari and the Ti-22. I have mostly been using Ti-22s lately but will probably have a Ferrari or Lola for each of these cars for Eddies. Untreated tires were fastest on most of the older cars but treated was better on the newer ones. With a freshly cleaned and sprayed track, there'd be more call for treateds on all of them and more narrowing as well. I'd say that all three of the new ones will want treated for sure @ Franks, but for Eddies....not sure.
#2
Posted 07 May 2010 - 03:19 PM
-Richie
Obsessed is the word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.
- Richie Austin
#3
Posted 07 May 2010 - 11:13 PM
Great looking cars !
Richard
#4
Posted 07 May 2010 - 11:30 PM
Richard-Yes thats the offset bracket. FWIW the last two of the new models are very easy to build once you figure them out and they seem to work as well as the tripods which are kinda hard to build. If you want to borrow one to copy just say so. I'm probably going to build another one like that last one. I'll maybe go for 5g lighter and refine it a little.
I may test next week too.
#5
Posted 08 May 2010 - 12:24 AM
OK... Winter is over, skiing is done and I've been building a bit.
Testing at FTH on the (flat) King with modest bite. A very good time under these conditions is 5.20-5.30. No motor switching was done. Weights listed are without body and with weights added as shown.
This design has been my most universally successful. I have won with it at FTH and Frank's. It has won once as a loaner and finished 2nd twice as a loaner and finished 2nd in the "A" @ Buena Park. I have two versions that run identically. One (just sold) is 2 rails of .063 spaced. This one is 3 rails of .055 wire on a Warmack nosepiece. WB=3.960, GL=.900 Weight=115g
Best time was 5.31 with full width JK 8713P, TSR geared 9-29, MAC Ferrari 312.
Car was solid, easy to drive as always, not spectacular in any way.
This is my first "tripod". I have a win and a second along with a DNF and a podium as a loaner. This car is fast and solid but doesn't work everywhere. JK nosepiece, JK hypoid bracket, JK pans. It is 2 rails of .063, WB=3.960 GL=.950 wt=107gr
Best time was 5.30 with JK 813P, a fairly tired Falcon 7 (8-26)O/S '69 Ferrari 312
I had a chance to try a tripod built by Craig Correja of SoCal that belonged to Herman James. That car was spectacularly fast but hard to drive. My critique was that it was too short and had too much flex. This car was built as a copy but longer and with a .032 wire torsion bar to stiffen the front half and a stouter bite bar in the rear. This car has raced once with a convincing win. JK nose, JK hypoid bracket, all rails .063 wire. The angled rails are solid at the rear but can twist in a tube in the front. This car is smooth as glass and so far I think it can run everywhere. WB=3.960, GL=.780, wt=103.7g
Best time was 5.22 with JK 8713P F-7 (9-29)O/S long nose Ti-22.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
OK here are the new ones.... these have not been raced as yet. All just hit the track for the first time this week.
This is a three rail tripod with two of the rails floating in tubes. Center rail is solid .063. Middle rail is .074 wire floating, angled rail is .063 floating. JK nosepiece, JK non hypoid bracket, Warmack guide tongue. WB=3.960, GL=.920, wt=102.6g
Best time 5.17 JK 8763 PT, TSR 9-29, G-Force Ti-22. (exceptional motor) Smooth, easy to drive. Never had to change or tune this car at all. It was good from the first lap.
Next up is a new (to me) design. This was inspired by looking at the weight distribution on GT12 cars. Inner rail is .063, outer rails are .063 floating. Pans are 1/4" x .062 on a torsion plumber rail. This car does not have tilt pans. Rear weight blocks are .063 brass with each one weighing about 4.0g. JK nose, JK hypoid bracket, Warmack Guide tongue. WB=3.960, GL= .860, wt=109g.
Best time 5.15 TSR (9-29, 8-27) Fastest body was O/S Ti-22 narrow nose, most consistent body was O/S Bloom Waters Ferrari.
This car is very odd. It handled like it was short and light but it's neither. Super quick and very tight at first, it took moving from untreated tires to treated, to narrowed treated tires. Then added about 3g of lead at front. Finally went from (9-29) to (8-27) gears. Tested several bodies with the BW Ferrari being the one I'd choose to race.
Really fast car but a little scary
Last one... I built this one last night after testing the above car. I wanted a little more forgiving and less critical car. 2 rail .063, inner rail solid, outer rail floating. Hinged pans with the pivot tubes on the outer rail(no separate hinge setup). rear blocks are .063 brass about 6g ea. JK nose heavily cut up, JK pans cut to 1/4" wide, JK non hypoid bracket, Warmack guide tongue. wb=3.960, GL=.800, wt=106g.
Best time 5.11, JK 8763 PT, Falcon (9-29, 8-27) O/S Ti-22 narrow nose, O/S Bloom Watters Ferrari, MAC Lola T-160. This car was easier to drive than the one above right away.It didn't feel as quick but the timer told a different story. The (9-29) gearing felt noticeably faster but again, the timer said (8-27) was better. The bodies were the same as to feel and times. Really good car.
These new cars are very good with the caveat being I haven't tried them anywhere except the FTH King so far. This track is very flat for a King and corner speeds are fairly slow. I suspect that 9t pinions will work better at Eddies where the corners are faster. The body testing confirmed that there is no major advantage between the Lola, the Ferrari and the Ti-22. I have mostly been using Ti-22s lately but will probably have a Ferrari or Lola for each of these cars for Eddies. Untreated tires were fastest on most of the older cars but treated was better on the newer ones. With a freshly cleaned and sprayed track, there'd be more call for treateds on all of them and more narrowing as well. I'd say that all three of the new ones will want treated for sure @ Franks, but for Eddies....not sure.
My current project is rebuilding my 4.5 Nascar with an offset motor bracket to be ready for Eddies. Next Can am will be a 3 rail cross between Randy Keils dup of your car and my dup of your Pro Coupe I just finished. Randy has done well with his. Sorry I may have to run "Sumo" again at Eddies. Also some work to widen my ft axles on my F1 and maybe a new bullet. Tripods seam to be popular, but I am not ready to step up yet. Thanks for the offer and may ask to dup one in the future .
Richard
P.S. I noticed Randys Dup didn't have the hidden "Fowler sway bar". Did he miss it or not have one? I had a tough time figuring it out in the F1 and Pro Coupe.
#6
Posted 08 May 2010 - 08:58 PM
#7
Posted 09 May 2010 - 09:48 PM
Hidden sway bar?? Whatcha referring to??
Not so hidden, but duplicating your cars I found them built into the chassis and pans. On the Pro Coupe built into the cross bars for the rear pan. On the F1 under the rear pin tube kind of hidden. Your new Tripod design has them in front of the motor. Thought they were great.
Richard
#8
Posted 10 May 2010 - 07:33 PM
OK....the bar that crosses the main rails out to the edges of the pans serves as an up/downstop. If that crossbar is soldered directly to the main rails it will stiffen the chassis in torsion. Torsional flex is the main mechanical component of bite. More torsional flex = more bite. Hence, that crosspiece is often referred to as a "bite bar"
So............
On those chassis, I didn't want a stiffer backend but the crosspiece has to be there for the up/downstop duty. So......it's soldered to the plumber rails but not the main rails. The "sway bar" is additional bracing and soldering surface for the crosspiece. On that chassis the sway bar isn't soldered to the main rails either, it's just soldered to the crosspiece and the plumber rail. It doesn't matter much whether the sway bar has its open end pointing forward or back.