35 replies to this topic

[Lone Wolf]

Dokk,

What can you tell us about Ron Mura? I only remember seeing a picture of him once. I also remember reading somewhere he made $50,000 in one year before he was twenty. Quite a hunk of change in the old days. Awaiting your reply.

[TSR]

Joe,

You will have to wait for the new book to come out; his story takes a whole chapter there...

He is currently producing pretty decent wine in Norcal under the Wizzard brand.

[68Caddy]

Philippe,

It sounds to me he found a better hobby then slot cars? It sure tastes better and I have to try one out.

Any recommendations? Red or white, that's the question.

Nesta

[TSR]

CLICK HERE

[68Caddy]

Philippe,

Red wine is it for me not that young any more. I will drink the red stuff just like a priest.

Nesta

[TSR]

Well, you asked. White wine is for girls.

[68Caddy]

Philippe you are so right about that.


Nesta

[Old pink can guy]

Nesta,

Just tried to send you a PM and it said this member can not receive any more messages. Are you on triple secret probation?

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Philippe!

I'm curious to see what you have. I know the slot car thing was in addition to a plant nursery.

I ran into Jim and Russ Aguirre. As you know they represented Mura back in the heyday. Part of my talk with them was where Ron Mura was. The response was they hadn't seen or heard from him in more than twenty years and didn't know.

Gus

[TSR]

Gus,

Are you the same person as "Joe Kelley" in the old days?

I interviewed Ron Mura for the book about two years ago, so as to confirm all the information that I had already gathered, then sent him the book chapter to review and he appeared to be pleased with it, so it must either not be that far off or I gave him too much of a break!

One thing for sure, all the product will be shown because I was able to cross all the info with actual catalog sheets and Ron sent me all of them.

The tall stories, I let John Cukras tell them in his own recollections in the book.

Regards,

P

[68Caddy]

Ken,

My mail box was full? I cleared some of it up.

Nesta

[Old pink can guy]

Thanks, Nesta.

Sent you some nice words and sent Dokk an PM and he said you may have blocked your PM as some people were being not so nice to you. Will have to redo it tomorrow. Tried and was asked to go early to my job tomorrow but had nothing bad to say.

Was glad to see you podium; hope Flygirl was their to see it. Your driving seems to be improving. I am proud of you and I know you can do better.

One thing I have to say is you have been trying for so long, but you did not give up. Sorry, Oscar has been. At ya he did the the same thing to me when I first started posting here, as I was not racing. Do not let him get ya down or stoop to his level.

The few times I met ya at BPR you were so positive and even the PMs ya sent me. Next time you race him just outdrive him; do it clean, no nerfing. And race him clean and beat him! What is he gonna say if ya beat him like the gentleman you are?

Your friend,

Ken

[Gary Lum]

I didn't realize that Wizzard wines was Ron Mura's.

My cousin had their red wine at their wedding in San Fransisco. Really good, and I'm not a wine drinker...

[Vannerlee]

Well, you asked. White wine is for girls.

Well, Dokk.

I am not a girl, 75 year old male. German white wines were sufficient to cause me a problem at Customs when I brought some back into this country. Ice wines may be a little on the girly side but still surburb.

To each his own I guess.

Lee

[Lone Wolf]

Well, that got off topic in a hurry .

Dokk, thanks for nuttin' . How much is this book going to cost me? Over $1,000? .

My favorite kind of wine is the "whine" from a vintage Ferrari race car turning 14 grand plus or a vintage can motor reworked and turning over 100 grand, free revving on mega amps.

By the way, I call this the "comm stress test" and is not recommended if you care about the motor.

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Philippe!

I am not Joe Kelley of old. You and I talked at this year's Checkpoint. After I introduced myself, your first words were questioning the health of Larsen. You never once asked that the question of Joe being me. I can't say I even know who Joe Is.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to your book coming out.

Gus

[TSR]

Just making sure that there is no confusion.

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Phillipe!

I just saw my response to you and it gives me the feeling that I responded tersely. That is not the case, I apologize.

I first got to know who Ron was after visiting his shop when I was 11 or 12 yrs old. Jim and Russ had recently raced at one of my local tracks (C&M) in Sacramento and had totally ran off from everyone with their horsepower.

My father and I visited Mura Racing products soon after that to get the latest in motors and arms. Ron firmly refused any sales and then informed us that those motors were experimental ones only available to team drivers. Those arms were the green bubble-gum prototypes. But Ron did graciously take us on a quick tour of his factory. I think my father was the most disappointed, as he was always there for me and my hobby.

This had to be in '66 or '67.

Gus

[Ron Hershman]

... and then informed us that those motors were experimental ones only available to team drivers.

And this is how the legends of the '60s were born.

[Old pink can guy]

All I have to say is back in the old days 1967 to '68 or '69 I never had a problem with the arms. I think I had two or three go up in smoke.

Even when the pink cans came out, I use to get two races out of a motor before I tore it down and sent it to Mr. Thorp for a comm true and rebalance.

I tried some of the other stuff - Champion, Thorp, etc., and they just did not come close to the quality of the Muras and were not as fast.

I think I was using the #24 and maybe #25 winds. They lasted forever, that out of at least 30 or more arms and never had the mags rezapped.

Great stuff, you could even by shaft blanks and comms so you could do your own wind.

Now that is the things legends are made of!!!

[TSR]

Gus,

No problem at all, I did not read anything offensive in your post that would cause me to get unsettled in any way...

Your story is pretty normal, and it was standard procedure in the day (as it is today) to experiment before making a new product available to the public. So at a time when the bubblegum arms were experimental, you could not expect Mura to sell you some, since they were unproven.

In fact there was nothing different on these arms from the ones available over the counter, except for that epoxy itself, that may have given them a longer life, but certainly not more speed. The speed came from wire gauge, turns per pole, and comm timing, plus the use of Champion Arco mags in the "works" motors, something that Mura could not get for their production units. That came much later.

Mura issued these bubblegum arms at a time where they were playing with their "B" motor, a catastrophic electric appliance that never worked properly due to several factors, one of them a built-in heat generator due to its very design!

Their D-size motor (M400 series) was also not the greatest thing since sliced bread at the beginning, as the Mura copy of the Mabuchi endbell, made of a better plastic in a black color but with the same (bad) brush holder design as that of the Mabuchi did not solve the heat problem caused by the hotter winds, the soldered commutator tabs, and the lack of a tie around the comm.

The first series of the Mura-Cukras (beautifully painted in fogged colors and very rare today) were simply abominable, and this was only resolved after Ron and John Cukras had a serious discussion on a flight back from NYC. Following the advice of John and Pete Zimmerman, Mura then copied the superior Champion endbell design with pent-roof brush holders, a better phenolic plastic, and at last, welded comms and comm ties.

After that, one could by a motor and it would live, and often, win.

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Philippe!

If my memory serves me correct, Ron did not sell to the public. You had to go through his wholesale network.

Also, I'm sure you're not forgetting about his attempt at milling down the C-cans, making them lower in height. We had a very industrious gentleman here in Sacto named Paul Updyke. He did so many different engineering things in regard to slot-cars that one probably could not account for them all. In regard to motors, he shortened arm stacks and lengthened arm stacks. He built motors out of the little Mabuchi. He would cut the backs out and epoxy Mura magnets in place. He cut Mura's early C-can and re-engineered it. There were a few other things along with constantly trying out winds. He did triple and quad winds. To sum up his motors though, he was mostly known for his long stack, high torque motors.

Gus

[LindsayB]

When did the C-can arrive? I remember getting my first new motor when I was 15, in 1970 for my birthday. It was Mura Grp7, machine wound, 25 guage with a B-can that was milled on the top and bottom, with bronze bushes. From memory (I think) it had bronze brush hoods (much like today's design) and a plate under the brushes. The motors were purple. The same year we saw the first Group 20; as we just had unlimited classes, the Group 20 was not a big hit.

For us the motor was quick, I don't remember seeing a C-can until 1971 in Australia.

In Australia our quick motors were all locally handwound. We had a guy (Seve Hutcherson) who would wind 25G motors that screamed and were beautifully wound, using Mura blanks, comms, and epoxy. Also had welded comms.

[Old pink can guy]

Lindssy,

I have two of the purple ones in the last cars I have from my stuff that got ripped off along with all my three boxes of stuff. They had the little flower power stickers on the and even have a original pink can, too.

Showed them to Terry and Mr. Cukras at the Checkpoint Cup at BPR. John said HE DID NOT EVEN have a pink can.

I will soon starting building for D3 soon and will post in scratchbuilding. Title will be "Out with the old and in with the new". Will post pics of the purple flower power monsters in the last two cars I have my father hid away from me. It will be a week or two before I begin so look for it.

I do not think people will believe the two old anglewinders I built at 13 or 14 years old. I an 56 now. I need to go to rehab as slot racing has really messed me up since I became a member here!

All true I promise.

[TSR]

If my memory serves me correct, Ron did not sell to the public. You had to go through his wholesale network. Also, I'm sure you're not forgetting about his attempt at milling down the C-cans, making them lower in height.

Gus,

Of course he did not. No manufacturer officially sold to the public. But if someone had gone to the "Nursery" in the day to get some stuff, you could be sure that they would have been well treated. In the day, I never had any trouble buying whatever I needed directly from any and all manufacturers I dealt with.

OK, as far as "milling C-cans", I hope that you mean, "B-cans", because I know of no one on this planet that milled C-cans, why would anyone do that? Some Champion C-cans had their diameter turned down because the cans were too thick (Pooch motors by Joel Montague), but that would not even touch their flat faces.

Now, to make things clear about Mura production timing:

1966 to 1968: Mura produces motors, all based on:
-Mabuchi FT36 (fairly few, all light metallic green, all EBD)
-Mabuchi FT16, FT16D, FT16DBB, most rewound Russkit 23s, K&Bs, Revell, whatever Ron could get his hands on.
-Mabuchi FT26, most EBD and a few dual-shaft.
-Igarashi "Hemi" (and variants), most EBD with a few dual-shaft. These were Ron's favorites.

1968: Mura introduces its M400 series of American-built motors, size is roughly the same as that of the Mabuchi FT16D. Because of magnet availability, these receive an inner shim that spaces the too-small magnets inside the can. These are generally called "A-can" to differentiate them from the later models. The can tooling came from the original Tradeship can used by other companies such as Cobra and Dyna-Rewind.

Late 1968: Mura introduces its "B-can" motor, effectively a lowered "A" that no longer needs a shim to fit the magnets. This turns out to be an expensive mistake. After all kinds of experiments to make it work properly that included various hole patters, vents, surface milling, different can thicknesses, etc., it is abandoned in late 1969. Late versions can however be credited to be the first smaller pro-racing motor to use "36D" motor brushes.

During that time, some pros tried everything to make it work but few succeeded, and the "A-can" and Champion D-sized motors keep winning all the big ones.

1970: Ron and George Mura purchase the Bob Green design for a new smaller can fitting directly over the Champion ARCO magnets, named the "C-can".
A new line of products called MPP is launched, with the names of Green, Lee Gilber, and Ron Mura printed on the cards. Gilbert is none too happy, as apparently he was never asked for his opinion.

The C-can will be sold in kits without magnets until 1972, when at last, Champion will agree to sell the Arci magnets to Mura.

1972 to 1990: the C-can grows stamped buss bars and will be produced assembled in many versions, most G-15 with short magnets. In the early 1980s, the hole pattern will change and some experimentation will take place, but effectively the motor will be relegated to "group racing" use as Group 7 sees the advent of cobalt magnets and smaller motors.

1990 (circa): Mura sells the company and gets out of slot car motor production.

This is of course the short version. You will see the intricate and illustrated detail of this in the new book.