88 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

I found this "Buy It Now" on eBay for around $20 and I thought it might make a fun project. I watched it sit around for several days and finally bought it:



So what in the heck can you do with that stone of a 12v Tyco sidewinder motor and a clunky Kemtron frame ? Check out the Lotus 30 of Nate Wallack and the Lola GT of B.G. Denithorne from these 1966 Rod & Custom race reports:





You make a Rod & Custom style racer out of i.t Here's the stock motor and it.s new heart, a Pittman DC-65X (6 volt) armature:



The Tyco motor gets torn apart. We’re going to lose the armature and the weirdo Tyco brush setup in favor of Pittman spring and plunger setup:



These are the modified pieces-parts of the motor:



One pole piece gets tapped 5-40 and the other is countersunk for a flathead screw:



The Tyco pot metal frame was tapped 2-56 for a brush plate which was countersunk for a flathead screw. The ends of the frame were also tapped 2-56 for motor mounting:



Here the DC-65 armature has been balanced and is set into the motor’s cast frame. I used ball bearings in the pillow blocks and the little brass strap holds them in place:



Here’s the before zapping gauss reading, or lack thereof. These iron magnet motor really go dead when you take them apart:



This is more like it... all ZAPPED!:



The finished motor. I removed all the dull black finish and polished the metal ("if it don’t go, chrome it!") :









Chassis time next ...

[Hworth08]

The motor is beautiful, the comm track looks... augh... not good!

Maybe try some Simichrome ploish or, I believe, Dupont No.7 rubbing compound. Not my ideas, just something I read from the old days by Pete Hagenbach but it does work. Clean the comm with lighter fluid and more Simichrome. After a while the comm and brushes will polish up and stay clean.

(Hope none of the good motor builders see that method!)

[don.siegel]

Looks great, Rick - are you going to put a wet wick on it?

Actually, I thought you had already done one of these, but maybe I'm hallucinating.

I've been wanting to do one of these for years, but... I'm lazy!

A couple questions nonetheless: is it a stock brush plate from somewhere or did you make it?

Also, do those little brass strips really hold in the ball bearings all by their lonesome? Very impressed by the difference in gauss reading, too...

Another great job, sigh....

Don

[dc-65x]

Clean the comm with lighter fluid and more Simichrome. After a while the comm and brushes will polish up and stay clean.

Hi Don H.

I polished the comm with 1200 grit paper before I put the motor together. That picture was taken after I ran the motor at 6 volts for 1 hour. So the old school trick is to run the motor with a dab of Simichrome on the comm at low volts ?

Hey Don S.

... are you going to put a wet wick on it?

Maybe, I'm not sure yet. I've got a tank with a wick... Speedway brand???

Actually, I thought you had already done one of these, but maybe I'm hallucinating.

I did a "Magazine Car" recreation of the Lola GT in the race report. I want to build this one the way I want it (but in a R&C 1966 style) to hammer at Eddies.

... is it a stock brush plate from somewhere or did you make it?

It's from a box-O-Ram stuff. I'm ASSuming it's Ram but I'm not sure.

... do those little brass strips really hold in the ball bearings all by their lonesome?

I hope so . The bearing flanges are on the inside of the pillow block so the bearings can't slide out. As long as the mega-ton-torque of the mighty Pittman doesn't rip the little screws out it should work... maybe .

... Very impressed by the difference in gauss reading, too...

It dropped a bit after running it for an hour... just like Fate said happens.

[Duffy]

Hey, Rikky, wondered where you'd got off to. Looking good.

Maybe try some Simichrome ploish or, I believe, Dupont No.7 rubbing compound. Not my ideas, just something I read from the old days by Pete Hagenbach but it does work. Clean the comm with lighter fluid and more Simichrome. After a while the comm and brushes will polish up and stay clean.

Alarm bells going off - back when I was a mold-makin' Terribleist, I once polished-in a complex shape by "charging" the formed graphite (Poco 3 for you Tekky Types) with Gesswein green diamond compound and spinning it in the steel mold; once saturated, the carbon didn't wear but the hardened steel did. Now, Simichrome ain't medium diamond, but neither is copper like steel at 52Rc... and I thought the question should be raised: once the grit's in the graphite, it may never come out. Any comments on long-term use here?

The bearing flanges are on the inside of the pillow block so the bearings can't slide out. As long as the mega-ton-torque of the mighty Pittman doesn't rip the little screws out it should work.....maybe.

Looks all right, the forces are mostly away from the straps. Keep a notebook running, anyway, just in case. "YOUR DISCOMFORT WILL BE INSTRUCTIONAL TO US ALL..."

[Gauss reading] dropped a bit after running it for an hour...just like Fate said happens.

Don't ya just hate it when he's right all the time?

Duffy

[dc-65x]

Hi Mikey,

Don't ya just hate it when he's right all the time?

Yes...

JUST KIDDING

I much appreciate the opportunity here for collective wisdom. Everyone shares their experience and we all come out the better for it.

[Duffy]

JUST KIDDING

... I was, too?...

I completely agree, sharing data and anecdotes and lore are fully one-[part] of the wonder of this hobby; but, in the best 12YrOld tradition, isn't "Razzing The Knowitall" a lot of fun, too?

So, being friends with the Blog's favorite Self-Proclaimed KnowALot (but not All), and being ever-subject myself to the friendly ribbing that my position as Enthusiastic Overthinker gets me, I feel not the least hesitant to lay it out where it's the most fun. Sometimes at myself.

In conversation this weekend, I was asked about the difference between this community and that of My Other Hobby - & after a bit of thought, I opined that we here may have somewhat fewer poseurs among our ranks, where we as a group can sniff out the bovine fecal content pretty well; and also that, given such olfactory discretion, we can have a better sense of humor about ourselves and can laugh along when we've done something comparatively foolish. Well, most of us. Usually. Ohh, nevermind.

Duffy

[Hworth08]

Alarm bells going off - back when I was a mold-makin' Terribleist, I once polished-in a complex shape by "charging" the formed graphite (Poco 3 for you Tekky Types) with Gesswein green diamond compound and spinning it in the steel mold; once saturated, the carbon didn't wear but the hardened steel did. Now, Simichrome ain't medium diamond, but neither is copper like steel at 52Rc... and I thought the question should be raised: once the grit's in the graphite, it may never come out. Any comments on long-term use here?

No problem. Thousands of Aurora T-jet brushes have been broken in with the Somichrome method and the T-Jet's flat comm is less than paper thick.

I apply a layer of polish and run the car on the track about five minutes. Then a squirt of lighter fluid and another minute or so of running followed by two more squirts. Pure motor cleaner might be better than lighter fluid. Be sure to keep the bearing next to the comm oiled as the lighter fluid will remove the oil.

[don.siegel]

And did you ever have a T-Jet go up in smoke with the lighter fluid, Don?

That happened to a Thingie's 26D motor (Swissracer?) at North London a couple years ago, and it was very entertaining!

Don

[endbelldrive]

Hi Don,
I think the Flamin' 26D it was a collaborative effort between Thingie performance artists, Edo and myself.

[don.siegel]

And it got rave reviews in the Sunday Times Bob!

[Hworth08]

And did you ever have a T-Jet go up in smoke with the lighter fluid, Don?

Hi,

No, the trick is to thin the SemiChrome with lighter fluid, run the chassis at 9 volts (18 to 22 is normal with HO cars)and then squirt in more fluid. And hold the chassis with plyers in case it was to catch fire.

A motor that is running "properly" gives off very few sparks at half speed making lighter fluid pretty safe.

[Horsepower]

I DON'T BELIEVE IT. I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IT!
Talk about changing a sow's ear into a silk purse! THAT is a positive delight! (As opposed to a negative delight) Has power been put to motor leads yet?

[dc-65x]

Thanks Gary and it runs fine. I was going to start building the chassis for it but I got side tracked. I got a idea for another Rod & Custom "What If" car.........WEEEE!!!!!!

[dc-65x]

I've been a ruminating on this Tyco-Pittman motor. It ran OK but I knew it wasn't "right". With the ball bearing retaining screws just barely snugged up I could give the armature a spin and it would just keep spinning and spinning....like it should. As soon as I tightened the screws that spin forever tendency stopped.

The as cast (square ) holes in the motor frame for the bearings had to be misaligning them. I tore the motor apart and decided to "Duffy" the bearing mounts.

I used my milling machine and a 1/4" ball end mill to recut the bearing holes in line with each other:



The sides of the bearing mounts were recut perpendicular with an 1/8" end mill. A 1/4" brass bearing reducer is used for the 3/16" ball bearing:



It all went together most wondrously :



Now when I spin the arm with the bearing screws tightened "good-N-tite":



It goes ZING! and spins forever......



Now I can build the chassis

[Duffy]

Tool Guy Duffy wondered. Slot Guy Duffy was too Timid to speak up.
Tool Guy shoulda knocked Slot Guy on his ax.
We don't need timid axles around here, particularly going by the same name as Toolish axles.
Duffy Of Many Guys

[Duffy]

...And 12-Year-Old Duffy would've shoved a 1/4" bit into Dad's Hand Drill and gone to town.
Those poor brass top strips just gotta cope.

[Hworth08]

Hey Rick,

That might be the first slot car motor "block" to ever be align bored?

Pretty work!

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Good fix Rick. Maybe that's why the comm track looked so bad after being ran for a hour.... the arm was not aligned when the screws were snugged up???

[dc-65x]

I ran it for another 1/2 hour at 5V and the comm track looks good . I'm thinking about chassis design now and about making this baby a "tanker".

What the heck is "trumpet oil" ..............

[Hworth08]

Trumpet oil is used to oil a trumpet. Sound simple?

Actually I did a fair search on trumpet oil a year or so ago after Ron Hershman thought the first Tiger Milk was trumpet oil.

I did discover that trumpet was sometimes used in the oil tanks to lubricate the comm/brushes on the first slot motors.

I also found an older gentleman that worked in a music shop, who used to race slot cars, and told me that the modern oils used on instruments was changed to be cancer free.

No more U-GO Tiger Milk, no more original trumpet oil.

[don.siegel]

Where did the "trumpet oil" pop up?

Anyway, it's what they used to say you should use on the wet wick: it's actually a valve oil sold by music stores for trumpets, and I assume trombonoes and other brass instruments. I went into a music store in Chicago about 10 years ago, and they still had some, although not the same brand I remembered from 1967...

Great project Rick, there's something about these Tyco motors ... or should I say the El Capalupo?!!

Don

[tonyp]

Try wd-40 works also.

[dc-65x]

What do you guys think about using RC "comm drops" in the tanker?

[Duffy]

What the heck is "trumpet oil" ..............

It's my professional opinion that the equipment needed to apply pressure to a standard trumpet, sufficient to render usable quantities of the resultant oil, is beyond most of us hobbyists. We're talking metal here, not like some olive press or other. Much, much harder.

As ideal as trumpet oil may be for our applications, I kind of suspect that some of the alternatives guys are suggesting are just way more convenient.