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New JK Hawk 7


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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:52 AM

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What was originally supposed to be a lighter weight FK motor for Jerry's upcoming new line of 1/32 C11 RTR cars, turned out to be more potent then expected, by the time it came across the Pacific Ocean.

$11.95 each. Shipping today. Please PM or call to order.
For dealers, the new stock number is 30307.

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Virtually identical width, height, and length dimensions along with the same mounting hole pattern as the Falcon 7.

Differences include an apparently different can bushing material and obviously, the larger oval cooling/viewing hole. It measures .590" L x .198" W vs .433" L x .159 W for the Falcon 7. Along with the lighter weight, the bigger slot allows much easier monitoring of the brush length.

The H7 weighs .7-.8 grams lighter than the F7.
The arm is about .3 grams lighter and the can is approximately .4-.5 grams lighter.
The endbell weighs virtually the same in both motors.

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While the endbell is similar in appearance and design, there is enough difference to lead me to believe this motor was manufactured in a different factory than the Falcon 7. Note the more enclosed housing for the endbell bushing.

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The differences are more apparent when looking at the arm. While both have .375" length stacks, the Hawk 7(below) has 26 laminations compared to 18 laminations on the
Falcon 7.(above)
Jerry has told me he consulted Stu Koford for advice on what type of lam material to order.

When Jerry brought four Hawk 7s by to test two Saturdays ago, they took us both totally by surprise.

The 1/32 "ultimate" body C11 car ran super-impressive 4.6s without much effort, and was a blast to drive.

The 1/24 two-piece C11 GT1 cars with 11/36 (64p) gearing and .760" tires absolutely knocked down the bank on the King.

Although they were running pretty hot, I went ahead and ran numerous 2 and 3 minute heats by myself on 14.3v without any failures. On one, we slipped on a fairly highdown force Red Fox Lola C pseudo-GT1 body, and ran a blistering 4.16.

Jerry left me with a few to play with. Even with going to a more conservative gear ratio (12/41, 72p) the Hawk 7 was .1 faster than the
virtually identically set-up Pro Slot Puppy Dog and .2 faster than the Falcon 7 custom cars I had in my showcase, using the same rear tires, body, and braid on all three cars during testing.

I ran the Hawk 7 in GT1 on the flat track this past Saturday. Despite running too high of a clearance, along with feeling like I needed a larger pinion on the mild 12v, I ran fast time of the night (the only 4.7) with the other "fast" guys unable to match me using Pro Slot Puppy Dog motors. The motor ran ice box.

Later in the evening, in an attempt to find the limit of the motor, it finally took me "bolting the car to the track", running tall (more roll-out), but sticky JK small hub, untreated natural tires on the same GT1 car, to finally get the motor to fail five heats into the race, running alongside with the lower downforce, Vintage Millinieum cars on 14.3v on the current, ultra-bitey conditons on the King.

Like any other motor, power and traction conditions will dictate how low of a numerical ratio you can run. As I always say, start conservative, monitor motor heat, and change accordingly.

But, unlike the original Hawk, when I was still reassembling my tracks after moving, and not involved in any of the testing, I've run five different Hawk 7s for somewhere between 700-1,000 laps and I'm impressed.

It's too early to fully assess the performance potential of this motor, but Jerry has no immediate plans to submit these for IRRA™ Retro use.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA™ Components Committee Chairman
Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
2255 Maple Ave
Downers Grove, IL 60515
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address)
 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.





#2 Lucky Me

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    Rick Maynard

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 08:46 AM

How are the brakes compared to an American-armed Puppy Dog?
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Rick Maynard
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#3 MSwiss

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 10:35 AM

Very comparable because the Hawk was running 12/41 while we run the Puppy Dog's at 13/41 to make them go.

But remember, this is with fairly lightweight GT1 cars, not heavier Retro cars.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA™ Components Committee Chairman
Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
2255 Maple Ave
Downers Grove, IL 60515
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address)
 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#4 Prof. Fate

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:11 AM

Hi,

Of course the photos aren't that clear, but it looks to be the same 65t/30 wind only on a better, slightly-longer stack. Are the magnets neos?

I am assuming the vertical brushes are the usual hard blocks as well.

Interesting stuff.

Thanks.

Fate
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Rocky Russo
3/6/48 - 1/1/12
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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:04 PM

Rocky,
Like the text said, the stack lengths are identical.
The H7 just looks longer because it's in the foreground of the pic.

Posted Image
Here's a pic of the same 2 arms with the F7 now in front.
Now it appears to be longer.

Posted Image
Brush design is very similar but not identical.
H7 is on the the left. A well used, worn out F7 is on the right.

I haven't checked the wind or popped out the magnets, yet.
  • 0

Mike Swiss
IRRA™ Components Committee Chairman
Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
2255 Maple Ave
Downers Grove, IL 60515
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address)
 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#6 Ron Hershman

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:08 PM

So the Hawk 7 has thinner lamination plates..... better for performance. But depends on the lam grade used.

I guess the mags need to be gauss read to tell if they are weaker or as strong as the F7 mags. That should tell if they are neo or not.
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#7 Jerry Ward

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:31 PM

IRRA™ legal motor? :rolleyes:
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#8 MSwiss

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:36 PM

See the last line of (the long :) ) post #1 but please note, The Parts Counter is not a discussion forum.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA™ Components Committee Chairman
Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
2255 Maple Ave
Downers Grove, IL 60515
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address)
 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#9 MSwiss

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 02:11 PM

BTW, this came up on OWH.
To be clear, the Hawk 7 is not a replacement for the Falcon 7.
It is just a slightly different motor to broaden his product line.
He has ZERO plans to discontinue the highly successful Falcon 7.
  • 0

Mike Swiss
IRRA™ Components Committee Chairman
Eight-time G7 King track single lap World Record holder
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
2255 Maple Ave
Downers Grove, IL 60515
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com  (also my PayPal address)
 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#10 Prof. Fate

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 01:45 PM

Hi

I wasn't looking at the foreground thing, only making an assumption based on your statement of the number of plates.

Anyway, calling it the "HAWK 7" is just going to cause confusion with the locals given the angst over the Faclon Seven and the "hawk" motors which some of us are playing with.

Visual inspection alone should satisfy on weather the magnets are neos or not.

So, back to the part I am unclear on. It is not a replacement for the Falcon VII, is it different enough to care?

Fate
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Rocky Russo
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