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Integy Xipp Perfect Lathe 2 set-up


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#1 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:21 PM

I just bought the optional diamond bit from Integy. However, I cannot figure out how to adjust it, according to their recommendations.

They recommend I position the bit so it is dead center, or just above. Well, with all shims removed it is still nearly . 030" above the centerline. In fact, it appears the centerline is nearly .010" below the "V" deck.

How do you accomplish the right adjustment?

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#2 Rick

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:37 PM

Just file/grind the bit body to where you want it. That part is soft.
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#3 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:41 AM

Makes sense, Rick. But you would think Integy would supply a bit that didn't require such an adjustment. Plus, to do so properly would require a milling machine, to ensure it remained straight. Also why is the "V" deck higher than the center line? It's like, the "V" is too deep? :blink:

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#4 havlicek

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:51 AM

Are you sure you have the bit installed properly? Viewed from above, with the drive motor on the left, the angle of the bit should be tapering towards the motor (left). It's also possible you don't have the proper bit???

I have the Integy and the Integy bit and it all worked with no problems, in fact, I had to install a shim or two to raise the bit past the centerline of the arm shaft. Remember, the very tip of the bit should be very slightly above the center of the arm shaft and not positioned relative to the V-groove to prevent the tip from gouging the com.

-john
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#5 Bill from NH

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:01 AM

Even the Hudy and Cobra comm lathes require a shim to get the bit above dead center. I'd follow the recommendations of John, since he has an Integy lathe and bit.

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#6 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:32 AM

I knew I saw someone with the same lathe. Thanks for your reply, John. Yes indeed, I have the bit installed correctly as you express, and I am trying to achieve exactly what you have depict. The bit I bought is HERE.

It's hard to describe the situation in words. The best I can do is draw this picture in MSPaint:

lathe.jpg
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#7 havlicek

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:28 AM

Hi Guy,

The picture is great and describes the setup and bit I have as well, the only exception being that on mine, I have a couple of shims installed to get my bit just above the flat/horizontal portion of the V-groove. All I can figure is that somewhere along the machining line, the spec of the setup must have changed.

You can easily lower the bit some more (as long as it clears the v-block's horizontal plane) by grinding a bit off the bottom of the lower surface of the diamond bit's shank. If you grind slightly too much... no worries as you can always add shim to the bottom when reinstalling the bit. If you grind a little off, try and keep the bottom surface you ground as flat as you can manage. In reality, being off by a degree or two won't matter as only the apex of the bit will contact the comm's surface, so there's not going to be a functional "misalignment". Getting the bit lowered as close to the centerline of the com (which is coincident to the centerline of the shaft as well) as you can should be fine, because the diameter of the com is huge relative to the contact point of the bit.

Remember to take the slightest pass as you are feeding the bit into the comm and then advance the feed of the bit by one hash mark after each complete pass. To see exactly when you first contact the com with the bit, it's helpful to blacken the com with a Sharpie as it's spinning so that you can easily see where the bit first starts to cut. You can make a final "finish pass" by only advancing the bit half of a hash mark.

I've cut countless comms with the diamond bit and the finish has not changed yet. If you're careful you should get a LOT of service from the bit... but the tip is fragile so just be patient (NOT trying to take off too much in a single pass and be sure that you never start the lathe with the bit over the com as it could be in contact with the comm) and you should have no problems.

It can also be helpful to mark above the bit-advance wheel with a "+" and a "-" mark to indicate which way to crank the wheel to advance of retract the bit. That way you can help avoid plunging the bit into the comm when you mean to retract it. Always start and stop the lathe with the bit away from the comm.

-john
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#8 Tex

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:39 AM

Could they have supplied the wrong part?
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#9 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:02 AM

That's what I am wondering. I wonder if they installed the wrong "V" blocks. I have an earlier model Xipp lathe for my R/C arms and I think the blocks are the same (can't say the for sure because I am not at home, with the lathe, at this time).

If the "V"s were not machined so deeply, everything described by John would work perfectly.

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#10 havlicek

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:13 AM

...nah, I think my machine is the same and I'd have to check, but it could be that my bit is slightly above the shaft CL. In practice it shouldn't matter if you're careful. The Xipp lathe is an excellent machine at a very good price. BTW...I'm pretty sure the same lathe is intended for both RC and Slot cars, so that wouldn't be something to look at. Consider this, the armature is spinning towards you in the above picture as long as you follow the polarity of the motor leads. If the bit point were below the centerline, you would actually have to advance the bit further into the com than where just the very tip is contacting it. Being as close to above the CL as possible insures that ONLY the tip is touching.

-john
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#11 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 04:45 PM

I hear and understand you clearly. But see for yourself. There's just something wrong. I have no shims installed, and the bit is way too high.

lathe.jpg

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#12 havlicek

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:01 PM

Yes... it is different than mine. I would grind a bit off the bottom of the bit's shank to get it as low as you can. Shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes with a Dremel. BTW, I was incorrect above when I said :

Consider this, the armature is spinning towards you


It is actually spinning away from you, so being above the centerline is "safe". In any case, a little touch-up of the bit with a grinder should do the trick.

-john
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#13 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 06:45 PM

I remember Integy used to advertise this model in the Slot Car category on eBay. But, more recently, they no longer sell them there. They advertise this lathe under R/Cs for "130-550" motor. I wonder what's the diameter of the armature shaft on a 130?

Hmmm! I just learned 130s, 280s have the same diameter as slot car motors.

I'm gonna contact Integy - was not impressed by their answers to my eBay questions, but it's worth a shot.

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#14 Richie

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:02 PM

Guy,

I'm 99% sure the way the Integys are coming now, the blocks have to be cut down to work with a slot car arm...

Call David Libenthal at Proformance; he mods the ones he sells, and if memory serves I think he said he modified the blocks on them.... Call him, I'm sure he can get you going!

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#15 Rick

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:15 PM

After viewing your picture the arm will be rotating up into the tool and its above center and it will probably cut just fine. Try an old junk arm first. You just would not want it below center because it may want to cut on the heel... go for it.

And if this still bothers you, I would modify the tool bit, not the machine.
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#16 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:12 PM

I just wanted the machine to be capable of being set up according to instructions "Dead center or a few thousandths high" (not 30 thousandths high) :shok:

Yea, I have plenty of old scrap arms to cut (anyone want an old Int15?).

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#17 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:45 AM

So, while I wait for a reply from Integy, I wanna thank all you guys for your inputs. Looks like I have several choices on making this thing work right.

If Integy gives me nothing, I'll probably have 10-15 thou removed from the front plane of the V-block, and 30 thou removed from the bottom of the bit shank. Then, I can shim from there.

Thanks, guys! :D

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#18 Bill from NH

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:13 AM

Speaking of shims, can the lathe's uprights be shimmed on the bottom to raise up the arms? It sounds like your uprights were milled a few thousands shorter or else the "Vees" ground a little deeper.

Bill Fernald
 

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#19 Rick

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:51 AM

Here's an old indian trick for setting up you com lathe for correct tool height, probably most know this, but possibly not.

Wind the tool bit into the round you are working on, slide a thin 6" scale or shim between the tool bit and work piece, when it is held in place prefectly straight up and down the tool bit is on center, if it's low the scale will tilt in on the bottom, if high the scale will tilt in on the top.
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#20 GearBear

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 05:53 PM

Looking at the original link for the tool and the picture you posted here. The tip of the tool is replaceable. Meaning that you can unscrew the tip from the shaft and put a shim under it to LOWER the tip to get it closer to the CL. Granted you will have to make a triangle shaped shim with a hole in it to do this, but it should work.

Me, I would do a test cut and if it doesn't chatter, I would use it as it is. :)
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#21 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:45 PM

Looking at the original link for the tool and the picture you posted here. The tip of the tool is replaceable. Meaning that you can unscrew the tip from the shaft and put a shim under it to LOWER the tip to get it closer to the CL. Granted you will have to make a triangle shaped shim with a hole in it to do this, but it should work.

Me, I would do a test cut and if it doesn't chatter, I would use it as it is. :)


Yet another viable option :D
Thanks, Bear

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#22 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:35 AM

Finally figured out why my diamond lathe cuts are unsatisfactory.

 

A machinist friend pointed it my diamond tip is too sharp.  That is, it is too pointed. It's supposed to have a radius on it, but doesnt.

He proceeded to supply me with some carbide bits. My comms now have a mirror finish,  and me and my lathe are happy!

 

Do you know anyone who can lap my diamond to produce the proper radius?


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#23 SlotStox#53

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:41 AM

Glad you found the problem and know what's causing it. Nothing like mirror finish comms :D can't help with the lapping part though .

#24 John Streisguth

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

Do a search for industrial diamond tooling. I work with Neuber Industrial Diamond Co. in Mass. on dressing bits for our grinder.

 

BTW: carbide on copper should last a long time. 


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#25 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

I've used carbide bits for cutting comms off and on since I came back into the hobby, and have some extras I purchased through McMaster-Carr in my lathe case now.  At about $3-4 each, you can get many cuts out of a good carbide bit. Nothing wrong with them at all for cutting the comms on the arms we use. I've compared the cuts with these good quality bits to the best diamond bits I've had, and really can't tell a difference.

 

Now I don't know if he is still around, or still does it, but David Liebenthal at Proformace used to sharpen and dress the diamond bits, or had someone he sent them out to.  You might contact him.


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#26 SlotStox#53

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:04 PM

Good to hear that the carbide bits are fine for cutting comms. Keep reading that it's got to be a diamond etc. etc. was wondering if the carbide tips were any use at all as the diamond ones are pretty steep in price :shok:  Makes it a little easier to get into comm cutting and purchase a lathe and be perfectly fine with the carbide ones :)

 

Thanks Michael :good:



#27 Bill from NH

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:34 PM

I have both carbide & diamond bits to cut comms. My experience has been that while the carbide bits cut okay & will true up a comm, they're not as sharp as a diamond bit, nor do they cut as finely. I use a comm cutting fluid with both. I'd suggest, try a carbide bit & if you're satisfied with it's results, you've saved yourself some money. I also prefer diamond bits for use with my Unimat jeweler's lathe because they're sharper & stay sharp longer..


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#28 SlotStox#53

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:52 PM

Thanks for the insight Bill , time to start saving either way :laugh2: :good:



#29 havlicek

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:33 AM

Interesting.  When I first got the Integy, I tried the carbide bit on a couple of coms and it was "OK".  Then I got the diamond bit and it was like a whole different machine...and I'm still on the same diamond bit after hundreds and hundreds of coms!  I'm only just now looking at getting another because I "think" the cut quality may be decreasing slightly!  The only "cutting fluid" I've ever used (pretty much) is the ink from the sharpie I run over the com to see my cuts.  Anyway, the Integy and the diamond bit are great and (at least when I got mine...haven't checked lately) sell for a really good price.

 

-john


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#30 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:27 PM

Interesting.  When I first got the Integy, I tried the carbide bit on a couple of coms and it was "OK".  Then I got the diamond bit and it was like a whole different machine...and I'm still on the same diamond bit after hundreds and hundreds of coms!  I'm only just now looking at getting another because I "think" the cut quality may be decreasing slightly!  The only "cutting fluid" I've ever used (pretty much) is the ink from the sharpie I run over the com to see my cuts.  Anyway, the Integy and the diamond bit are great and (at least when I got mine...haven't checked lately) sell for a really good price.

 

-john

The Integy is a good lathe. But Integy no longer sells the needed bits. Do you know of any correct diamond bits for this unit?  


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#31 SlotStox#53

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 02:56 PM

Scott look at McMaster-Carr they have diamond bits for $68 in left & right handed with either 1/4 , 3/8 . 1/2" shank ,whichever size bit the Integgy  lathe uses :good:



#32 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

John, When Big Jim Greenmeyer did all my arms he used lighter fluid truing comms....


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#33 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:36 PM

Interesting.  When I first got the Integy, I tried the carbide bit on a couple of coms and it was "OK".  Then I got the diamond bit and it was like a whole different machine...and I'm still on the same diamond bit after hundreds and hundreds of coms!  I'm only just now looking at getting another because I "think" the cut quality may be decreasing slightly!  The only "cutting fluid" I've ever used (pretty much) is the ink from the sharpie I run over the com to see my cuts.  Anyway, the Integy and the diamond bit are great and (at least when I got mine...haven't checked lately) sell for a really good price.

 

-john

LOL!  I'll gladly trade bits with you, John.  Yours was clearly done right :)


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#34 Hermit #1

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:10 PM

J&M Diamond Tool Inc. shows polycrystalline diamond turning tools starting at $54.  Haven't used them, but it looks like a good place to start.

Diamond_Tools.jpg

For you experienced comm lathe users, which style ("A" or "B") would you prefer for slot car/RC car  use?


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#35 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 05:17 PM

That's a great tip, Dave. (no pun intended)

 

Incidentally, I finally found conclusion to my issue just a week ago.  Some time ago, my machinist friend inspected my bit, and declared that the point was too sharp, and failed to have a desirable radius to provide smooth cuts.  

 

Then, just a week ago, I spotted a new Integy XIPP bit on ebay, bought it, installed it and now repeatedly make a smooth, mirror finish cuts in all my comms.  


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