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#1 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:27 AM

One of our new racers Zackery Coulter was turn marshaling for some rental customers on Saturday and got tips of about $13. So with his dad's help he now has a new Womp (and 8 bucks).

Zack is now thinking a Womp race would be a very good idea. Would a Womp race be a good race for kids, or open it to everyone? And should we keep it stock rules?
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Scott Salzberg
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#2 marc

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:43 AM

Womps, as you know, are tricky varmits but with some creative part transplanting they can be very fast!! (Spoils the fun.)

I'd say make them stock right outta the box; that's fair for everyone involved. Treat 'em like a gremlin, no water and sun light. They're mighty scary things - whohhaaaada!!
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Marc Ronhock

#3 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:51 AM

Scott, start with stock rules and if the interest is there, add an advanced class where they can run things like modified bodies and Falcon 7 motors. :)
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#4 Marty Stanley

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:53 AM

Scott,

First of all, congrats to Zackery for earning his first Womp. First of all since he actually earned it, he should be more interested in it then many folks that don't earn them.

In my opinion, I believe new racers should learn how to race with a Womp or FCR. Why is that? Well either of those selections are not known for being fast, nor handling well. So they require the new racer to actually learn how to drive a slot car. Some of the newer flexi chassis work so well that the new racer really has no idea of how to drive a car, they just punch this turn, blip the throttle for another turn and back to punched once again. Do that with either of the choices I mentioned and you're going to keep the turn marshals busy or do a lot of walking to put your car back on.

The setup of either a Womp or a FCR car is a lot more straight forward. The chassis is pretty simple - kind of like a brick. But you need to learn how to check for squareness of the axles, guide depth, routing of wires and such.

Why no try this; invite all to participate in the Womp race. If you get 12 or more racers, then have everyone qualify. The 8 slowest racers are put into a 'consi race'. The remainder of the racers are now your turn marshals and are automatically seeded into the Main race. At the end of the consi race, move up the top however many racers it takes to fill up all 8 lanes in the Main event. Those that did not make the Main event are now turn marshals. Those that moved up to the Main got to race twice as mucn and did not have to pull a tour as turn marshal.

This way you can have the more experienced racers set the performance level for the newer drivers. As their skill level progresses, they will start to do the move up to the Main race.

Let us know how this works for you.

Remember, this is strictly my opinion on the subject.
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Marty Stanley aka Florida Slotter
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#5 marc

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:57 AM

bill falcon motors ???,, oh no not that !!! they'll get away ... i spend more time maintaining my womps than my flexey gtp cars .. these things are pure evil and adictive .. we run them on a oval with death stars and there only a few tenths slower that a jk east coast modified falcon flexy .. oh my god your not realy running them with more power ??? some ones gonna get hurt !!
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Marc Ronhock

#6 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:04 PM

Ok, here is a starter kit I will start to sell these new guys.

Fancy controller
PSC Womp chassis jig and jig wheels
oil (kids love to oil the car)
fancy gear wrench
time card
Womp
$275




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Scott Salzberg
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#7 Marty Stanley

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:05 PM

Marc,

If you think a Womp with a Falcon in it is evil, you ain't seen nothin' yet my friend.

At one time "Wild Womps" used to run at Holly Hill on a regular basis. I'll bet you didn't know why the plexiglass in the middle of those high banks was put there for? To protect spectators!

When you put a Contender or a Group 12 motor in a Womp, that's EVIL !!!!!

Personally, I think Womps should have to run the stock 9 / 31 gearing on that oval in Cocoa. The track is fast enough. When you get 2.0 lap times out of a Womp, that's fast!

Womps on an oval are, in a word, INTENSE!
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Marty Stanley aka Florida Slotter
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#8 Victor Poulin

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:17 PM

Ok, here is a starter kit I will start to sell these new guys.

Fancy controller
PSC Womp chassis jig and jig wheels
oil (kids love to oil the car)
fancy gear wrench
time card
Womp
$275





Scott,
That seems like good intent, but may be a bit pricey for the beginner. Why not start them with the good old Parma starter kits? I know the controllers arn't much good, but they could upgrade them as they can afford.
Just my thoughts.;)

Vic
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Alright, who cut the cheese?

#9 marc

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:18 PM

marty thats the scary part WE ARE runing laps that fast !! with death stars ....and blob bodys .. come over when your all recovered and give it a try its insane... scott keep 'em close to stock for god sakes don't drive your racers insane [ we alomst have to chain the womp racers up we have now ] and your package looks good but don't forget the 16 feet of 1/16 paino wire if your gonna need to reinforce the slabs they call chassis by alowing gears and other mods the poor guys will wear there jigs out in two weeks ........... good learner cars if you can learn a womp you can race anything keeping them stock will give every body a fair field to play in.and no broken windows or injured spectators .......
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Marc Ronhock

#10 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:33 PM

Womps with Falcon 7s were run on a small figure-8 when we had a local raceway. They're not nearly the SCM thing Marc would like to make them.

Scott, if you can sell those $275 womp starter packages in your market, go for it. But wouldn't have sold around here. I'd get rid of the fancy items & replace them with cheaper but more practical alternatives. I'd also add in a small plastic toolbox to carry everything in between home & the raceway.
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#11 slotcarone

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:38 PM

:D Scott from my experience IMO Womps are not good for beginners--reasons being they bend very easily and strip the gears often. Flexi's are a much better choice for new racers to cut their teeth on.
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#12 willy wonka

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:52 PM

Nope Womps are a great beginner class if u don't over power them. My very first race was a womp bout 9 yrs ago they were insane!!! We had a super 16d in ours way to fast. But as mentioned b4 if u can drive a womp or fcr u can drive just about ne thing. I started with womps then moved to fcr and now trying my hand at the flexi stuff on the road course.I think either one of them is a great starter class but the price on ur kit may b a bit steep try replace the fancy things with regular stuff and drop the price to where its affordable and u still make a "lil change" I think u will c much beter results
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#13 Cheater

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:04 PM

I am of two minds about Scott's question.

First, one of the key tenets of an American Model Racing Congress franchise track was to hold a race anytime folks wanted to hold a race. Remember the ribbons? I still think that's a good approach.

On the other hand, one of the stupid things that raceways have done over the last forty years is to introduce potential participants to the hobby using the nastiest, most evil handing slot cars ever found on the planet: rental cars. The usual rental car at most raceways is a WhisperJet with an .040" body, recycled braid, rock hard tires, and a bent chassis. And a Womp ain't a whole lot better, let's be honest.

Marty's right about the chance for Womps to teach new racers some of the important aspects of slot car racing, but my question is this: how wise is it to make the lessons so hard?
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Gregory Wells

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#14 marc

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:08 PM

ya the price may be slighty high on a newbee young racer maybe try a car first and the raceway provide controlers to all racers in the womp class to make it fair.. i agree with marty start with a womp then go on from there i've seen to many one shot wonders they come in a buy a faster rtr flexy and never get to learn the basics of takeing care of there car. or figure the cost of the rest of the other things there gonna need ..they come a couple of times and lose interest quickly..

. stock womp is a easy thing and if the gear ratio is kept stock and the speed stays down ! a pair of kmart $2 pliers a wheel and gear wrench a flat ruler some oil and small box to carry the remains home at night would be a better fit.. for starters then you can have another class for the insane with limited rules but get ready for some fun . those guys can have a ball with a lot of soldering and a bunch of
beating and bending of tin..

btw bill i heard a few years ago several people were killed at a raceway in a falcon powered womp wreck . don't know might be true, maybe its just a story !!!!!!!!!!
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Marc Ronhock

#15 marc

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:52 PM

cheater he lies the basic dilemia in slot cars why such a hard lesson ???? because we need a cheap way to start new people into the hobby.. the question has been asked over and over how do we get more new people ??

use this : new guy comes in to see what it all about ,, he likes what he sees buys a rtr kit plays awhile then desides
to race ..first thing he finds out is his car just isn't quite up to the tasks his controlers not up to the job he gets stomped right off the go spot .. now he's stuck in a situation where he misjudged the cost of his crusade maybe he'll fork out more money maybe he'll come once in awhile and runs some laps and play or try to race again or never come back and just write off the money he spent to get started .

start him off with a basic shop owned car provide the controler too this keeps the mods outta the class let him come in slowly and have some fun in the mean time... honestly if it were me i'd make the investment as a raceway owner to run a program where the car and controler are provided to the victim er new racer so all he had to do was drive and smile ..if they become interested they'l buy and spend money with the store and proberly stay with it and enjoy themselves.. don't misslead the new guy
start 'em with a womp. let him get the feel without the pressure from others you know what happens he's slow he crashes the balistic missle guys get mad at him ...make the investment in a future not just a quick sale.
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Marc Ronhock

#16 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:12 PM

What about those TSR 1/24 wood track RTR cars? Do they give out free samples to raceways that may want to sell them? Hint, hint.
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Scott Salzberg
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#17 Cheater

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:23 PM

P's gonna kill me for saying this, but his fabulous 1/32 cars simply didn't work as well when scaled up to 1/24.

The best rental cars I've seen are spring steel chassis with Falcons (or equivalents) and winged bodies. The key issue with rental cars is to make them just fast enough to come off. Reslotting crashed cars is what needs to be avoided with newbie's exposure to slot racing. That's the key.
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Gregory Wells

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#18 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:25 PM

I was on the new site and thought maybe they would sell well because they look nice. But I have not tried one yet.
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#19 spudboy

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:29 PM

*Many* years ago Dan Delude ran a "club" - the Model Car Shop - in the basement of his Pawtucket RI home. Pawtucket is a working class community and people there didn't have extravagant tastes. Dan was a short track fan and this was the jumping off point for his raceway.

He ran a weekly race program on a short 4-lane banked wooden oval he built himself. There were three classes; NASCAR stock cars, NASCAR Modifieds and ISMA Super Modifieds. (Hmm, seems to me there was a ProStock clas too...?) Back in the day the bodies for stock cars - which looked stock - were all available from Parma. I believe he made the mold for the Modified bodies himself. For sure he made the mold for the Super Modifieds himself. Each car had to be painted to resemble an actual car seen on the NASCAR or local tracks.

Every one of these classes ran on a Womp chassis! The stock cars ran Wasp(?) motors, the Modifieds ran 16D and the Super Modifieds ran Grp12! The Super Mods with their Grp12 motors were absolute rockets and a BLAST to drive.

Dan could count on 10-12 very enthusiastic guys every week. Many of them hadn't been slot racers before joining his club. If a new guy needed help getting up to speed it was no problem. Costs were kept down. Competition was tough but he made sure guys had fun. He tracked points for a season ending championship event followed by dinner out and a visit to a local "Gentleman's Club". The whole concept was successful enough that he was able to open a commercial hobby operation eventually.

So, I'm not suggesting this is appropriate for kids but it demonstrates what can be done with Womps.
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Nate "spudboy" Bemis

#20 idare2bdul

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:09 PM

Some of the best racing I've been in was with Womps. Also some of the worst(best?) cheating.

The only advice I'd give is if you have rules, enforce them.
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#21 MrWeiler

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:16 PM

Stock womps produce the best, closest, most "FUN" racing on our track.

Our stock rules require:

  • Any of the Parma, Champion or Riggen Womp type chassis are OK as long as the chassis in not modified.
  • Legends wide fronts or Parma O-Ring front wheels & tires are required.
  • 1/8 solid steel axles only on both ends of the car
  • Deathstar 16D or other factory 16Ds (no "chopped up" or "swiss cheesed" lightweight setups are allowed. The straight sections at our track are short, so power is not very important: most stock Womp wins so far are with the stock sealed Deathstar)
  • GEARS: Any 48P press or solder on pinion with Parma, Cox or similar 48Px 1/8" ID plastic crown is OK, the gear ratio is drivers choice.
  • Stock Parma or Champion SBR Womp type rear tires ONLY.
  • Stock rear bushings
  • Parma VW or 33 ford hot rod and Champion Legends bodies ONLY. The body must be painted with clear windows and 3 numbers and must not be "butchered" (not cut up)
  • Painted lexan interior must cover chassis and motor when viewed from the top
  • Motor screws must be installed
  • Stock sized guide (no cut downs)
  • Stock body clips-no pin tubes for body mounting
  • no chassis mods (braces)
  • 1/16" (.062) min clearance on chassis, .047 on the gear.
  • 3 1/8" max width


Allowed changes (for reliability and handling):


  • May solder or glue in bushings and may solder or glue motor to chassis
  • The body may be reenforced with tape, plastic, body stars or washers and/or goop as long as the stock configuration is maintained (no add on aero)
  • Any motor wires and guide clips are allowed and any guide hardware is OK.
  • Weight may be added (REASON: The Womp was designed for a lighter, slower motor than the current 16D, without some added weight in the front to balance the chassis the races are crashfests.)


Grandfather Womp clause:


Womps and Thumpers came in many different configurations. To encourage new and returning "Wompers", we allow the new racers or returning racers with older or out-of-compliance Womp/Thumper cars to race them in the stock class under the following rule:

Any stock Womp/Thumper type car is legal to be raced as is: (as shipped from the factory) with the body, tires and motor it came with from the factory plus any of the other mods (outlined above). The grandfathered cars are allowed to race UNTIL the driver gets two podium finishes. After two podium finishes his cars must be brought into full compliance with the stock womp rules.
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#22 MrWeiler

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:38 PM

Ok, here is a starter kit I will start to sell these new guys.

Fancy controller
PSC Womp chassis jig and jig wheels
oil (kids love to oil the car)
fancy gear wrench
time card
Womp
$275


Scott, based on our experience with Womp drivers:

  • The good "fancy" controller is a good idea--but many will be driven off by the price and won't see the real value 'till they blow up a couple of the "econo" types. Funny thing is new drivers really need the best controllers because they tend to try to drive at a constant speed--which blows up the cheep controller.
  • I've NEVER been able to sell a womp chassis jig to any of my womp racers (they don't see the value in that) We have been "Womping" for more than 3 years and my racers are just starting to get interested in painting bodies.
  • I'd add some braid juice, body bullet proofing strips, a braid brush, extra braid, a guide nut wrench and a test block to your package.
  • Also maybe a print-out on chassis setup and troubleshooting?
  • You chould offer a basic and delux womp package?

Mike
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#23 Ed Miller

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 06:12 PM

Scott,
We run the 1/32 Champion Thumper Chassis, these seem to handle better then the parma whomp. We make the best chassis brace kit for these chassis. You will not twist them up when you (whomp) into the wall or get tossed off the track. We enjoy racing this class with a Dirt Modified Body (laminated paper body that we make).
If you would like to call me about the braces or the bodies you can call my cell phone# 610-633-2206.

Thank you,
Ed
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#24 Rick

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 06:50 PM

Scott, I think a Womp class could be a great starter class and also a great class in general. I would forego the pricy starter Kits and make your own up, with a womp and a controller of your choice, pro wrench, braids, clips, oilier. Keep it under a $100, if possible today. Remember the KISS rule.

Then figure out how to turn the voltage down to about 10 or 11 volts for the noobs to learn on. It could be very easy with some high amp diodes and alligator clip for an easy voltage dropper. 4 diodes in series would drop 2.8 volts from the source, tada 11 volts. Then gear them with an big crown( maybe 35-6) This is one of those places where the Americna Time Seller has no substitue, dual power on your race track(s). After a few weeks, drop one of the diodes out and so on.

As Marty says it will teach them to drive the car for their initial slot car racing.

Then hold some seminars on car set-up and tuning etc. Show them independant fronts and how to do it, soldering in oilites, making the chassis flat, front tire tuning, guide set-up. Once the hook is set then they will move to bigger and better things.

PS: We used to race Womps with a 20 in them on a RED, OMG! Talk about carnage. LMAO......
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#25 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:05 PM

Mike, a couple questions on your Womp rules if I may ask.

1.) Do you require the Deathstars to be sealed or do you allow blueprinted motors as long as the Chinese arms & magnets are used?

2.) The Parma Womp chassis have two sets of front axle holes. Do you specify which ones have to be used so wheelbases aren't stretched?

I like the rules you stated above. Racing under them should be a lot of fun, for young & old alike. :)
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#26 macman

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:30 PM

While womps may be cheap, ya get what you pay for :o :o ... I have worked in 4 or 5 raceways, & if I were to open my own track, I would not even stock the little peices of junk, except as bare chassis to cut up & make drag cars. :laugh2: :laugh2:
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#27 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:30 PM

Mike, a couple questions on your Womp rules if I may ask.

1.) Do you require the Deathstars to be sealed or do you allow blueprinted motors as long as the Chinese arms & magnets are used?

2.) The Parma Womp chassis have two sets of front axle holes. Do you specify which ones have to be used so wheelbases aren't stretched?

I like the rules you stated above. Racing under them should be a lot of fun, for young & old alike. :)



The rules have not been set in stone. But I was thinking that dead stock but allow the optional brass chassis and an optional tire.
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#28 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:18 PM

Don't know how much all this may apply to your situation, but here's what we had in '83, when we had a strong weekly series going.

A lot of kids and families attended this Sunday afternoon, weekly event. We ran a series, where the bodies were part of the challenge. Parma made some 25 different bodies for the Womp at the time. So, we split the bodies into categories, such as NASCAR, Sports Cars (mustangs and such) "Box Cars" (relatively top heavy bodies), and wing cars. Every week, we'd run a different body category. The "Superwomp" had been introduced, and was allowed. I was the only "advanced" racer in the class, and some complained, until they drove my car. I drove a Champion Thumper. I often podiumed, but that was acceptable, considering my handicap. I don't remember the motor rules very well, but I think we ran a basic Mura C-can with a "womp" arm. Wasps were not allowed. A rear brace and lead were allowed, and basic womps could bend their chassis to lower the center section. Stock type gears, guides, axles, fronts, etc. We even threw in a few points for weekly concourse. So the body played a big part, because some cars worked better with some bodies, and then changed with other bodies. We had a lot of fun, and that was all it's about!

But I had a secret weapon. My team mate had a girlfriend who would corner martial, and every time she leaned over the track... :laugh2:
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#29 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:24 PM

My team mate had a girlfriend who would corner martial, and every time she leaned over the track... :laugh2:


Guy, shouldn't that read,"... every time my car deslotted, she leaned over the track!" :laugh2:
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Bill Fernald

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#30 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:34 PM

Guy, shouldn't that read,"... every time my car deslotted, she leaned over the track!" :laugh2:


LOL!

Naw! She was more a distraction for everyone else! How do you think I managed podium finishes against those Superwomps? :laugh2:

I got used to her, riding in my Austin Healey, flashing her BF on his scooter, and causing other car accidents!
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