19 replies to this topic

[Dallas51170]

What is the optimal running temperature for motors?

S16D ?
Super Wasp?
Contender?
Group 12?
Group 15?
Group 20?

Cobalt 27 ?
Cobalt 7 ?
And eurosport ?

I would like to know this to help me tune my cars.

Thanks
Dallas

[Victor Poulin]

Dallas,
I don't think theirs an answer to your question. Every motor built will run different depending on how it's set up. Timing of the arms used, magnets, magnet gaping, power used, gearing, ect,ect. To many things will change each motors performance and temps.

Another reason why no two motors will run exactly alike .

Vic

[jockefors]

Hi this is nott a good reply but ...the cooler the better.....i think it looks like the c-can engins dont go so warm
when we drowe this 3 min test heat with our can we pumpt the gas much so the engine had to pull all the way thro the curvs like as we over dosed the small inbrake on every lap so the engine had more work ...than just to go om full gas with max rpm....

if you race the firsth 2 lapps on full power in timeq to final is ofen the fastest laps after 5-9 laps it starts to drop time just a llittel bit...
and it allso werry big diffrent betwen engins ...

i found my ir temp now.......and i will temp all of my cars too se what kind of heat they produce g27 and g7 open is BIG heat monsters...

we allso plan too set up air noislers ...cant spell... and build a airsysten with like 10mm copper pipes in our club ...realy easy too cool the engine down between heats ..just give it a qick blowjobb ....and then back to the racing ...with full power.........LOL

[Neuspeed]

I have a temp gun that I will bring to the track< run some laps ,look at your times and see what the temp is with the best times. That is one way. Another way is to know the spec's of the magnets and run your car in the temp range that is optimal for the magnets> which sucks because when you buy magnets from Koford or any other manufacture there is no info that come with them. Here are some stuff that I have read and printed out for my on use.
http://www.coolmagne...om/magstren.htm

[Guillermo Suar]

We are not talking about internal combustion engines. In electric motors, the cooler the better, without going to extremes. I'm talking about room temperatures, not about dipping the motor in liquid nitrogen.


Lower temp ==> Lower electric resistance ==> more power.
Higher temp ==> Weaker magnets ==> Less torque.

[jockefors]

We are not talking about internal combustion engines. In electric motors, the cooler the better, without going to extremes. I'm talking about room temperatures, not about dipping the motor in liquid nitrogen.


Lower temp ==> Lower electric resistance ==> more power.
Higher temp ==> Weaker magnets ==> Less torque.

hi ....good reply..
the intresting thing is howe they work in 20-150 degrees c...or under nomal conditions when we drive...
i think the best is too hawe like 30-60 degrees ...as normal and nott newer go higer then100 degrees c
a thing thats like 90 or 100 degrees hot you dont stick you finger too so long ..its hot its a big diffrent to like 60-70 degrees..

[Dallas51170]

OK I have more specifics I want to know.


What is the max temperature of these motors?

parma sealed S16D

Contender

Super Wasp

Group 12

Group 20

Group 27

Group 7

I know the chemicals that are used in magnet wire and I know if you are running a ML its max point is 220 celcius but if they use Polyurethane then it is only 155 celcieus. I am only asking for and educated guess so whomever feels like Mr Spoke out there and can give me that guess it will be appreciated.


Dallas

[Rick]

OK I have more specifics I want to know.


What is the max temperature of these motors?

parma sealed S16D

Contender

Super Wasp

Group 12

Group 20

Group 27

Group 7

I know the chemicals that are used in magnet wire and I know if you are running a ML its max point is 220 celcius but if they use Polyurethane then it is only 155 celcieus. I am only asking for and educated guess so whomever feels like Mr Spoke out there and can give me that guess it will be appreciated.


Dallas

Dallas, I am in no way an expert about this but I was just starting to work with this temp thing when my son quit Group 7 racing, so I left it be. You are saying 220C for magnet wire which is 428F. From my testing, an open arm will withstand just under 300F and stay alive, over 300F they begin to die rather quickly. I think, if IIRC, red arm dye will begin to discolor at about 180F? I am sure some real motor guru will support or knock that number down. It would be a real shot in the dark and a pure guess but I would think any small wire motor(29 gauge/30 gauge/32 gauge) would probably take 190-200F and lose it at 200+F????

Although the coating may withstand 220C the wire size will also come into play, I would think. You know bigger wire carrying more amps than smaller wire etc. Too much heat you are probably lugging the arm and asking it to pull more amps than it can handle and poofta!

[Ron Hershman]

If I remember correctly....... ceramic C-can motors when they got to 180 degrees F or above... they got pulled out and changed.

Cobalt motors we looked at the arm dye and the comm.... never took temps on them. The temps can be all over the place on cobalt motors depending on how much or how little choke you run.

A Parma or asian made arm will cook a lot faster than a American made arm in 16-D's Super 16'D. The asian arms are made with lower temp wire and the magnets are not as good/strong as the ones used in the C-can motors.

Some X-12 arms are made with ML and some are not. Depending on if the wire used is American 29 Ga or Metric. The Metric wire used on some X-12 arms is NOT ML...... it has a rating of only 200C.... but if it runs 180 F or higher change it just as you would with 29 ga ML wire.

The American made 16-D's, S-16-D's, Wasp and Contenders may or may not be ML wire and are probably rated at 180- 200 C.

The old school way to check..... put some spit on the stack and if it sizzles.... change it. Water boils at 220 F

[Ron Hershman]

Also remember, lots of things affect motor temp.....spring tension, type and brand of magnets, air gap, motor can, comm timing, gearing.

Sometimes changing the pinion by one tooth can make a difference if a motor is a one heat wonder or a all day player.

[Dallas51170]

Hello All,

thanks for the input. I am trying to figure out optimum heat so as I test motors I can change gearing and such to hit the sweet spot. I just Bought a infared laser heat gun. New toy for slot cars.......

[jockefors]

Hello All,

thanks for the input. I am trying to figure out optimum heat so as I test motors I can change gearing and such to hit the sweet spot. I just Bought a infared laser heat gun. New toy for slot cars.......

hi esyest way is too go as cool as you can the engine will last longer ,,,
like the others say geearing,mag gap,arm degrees,power,bruches etc is making diffrent so its not a easy
anser ..

but try too hawe a open can so you pump a lot of air throo the can and engine its cooling
the old mura engine is werry gratful to mod i hawe opend upp 3 of then now and they ar looking like new engins and runns cooler than before
and try to adjust the arm degrees so you dont run to hot arms 38-40 i think is normal...
and air gap is allso important byt if its too big you loose power....

[havlicek]

.....i think it looks like the c-can engins dont go so warm

That's completely untrue. The C-can can run anywhere between "cool" and meltdown hot... it depends on the arm, timing, airgap, choke, magnets, track power, the weight of the car it's being asked to push and the gearing ("lugging" will cause a motor to draw more current and could make it burn up...on the other extreme, having a car wind-out less than half way down the longest straight could also do harm), poor setup or sloppy bushings or bearings can also make a motor run hot, binding of the gears etc.. A C-can is only a setup and any setup can run cool or hot.

-john

[idare2bdul]

The reality is that we push these motors well beyond what any sensible engineer would think remotely reasonable. Want a reasonable slot car motor, go buy an old Pittman.

Today we build motors for a particular class that may allow air control or glue or both and that loads the motor and creates heat. At times the fast way to go is also the way to short motor life. You either accept that or go slower. As Ron pointed out a lot of the time a change to gearing that allows the motor to rev will greatly improve motor life. Peaking halfway down the straight as John pointed out means you have gone too far the other direction.

Like reading a sparkplug on a car the slot car armature can tell you a lot about how the motor has been running. Between the arm dye changing color and what the com track looks like and the color of the com, you get a lot of information to make changes.

Rule of thumb, start with the set up that the fast guys are using for gearing, brushes, springs and airgap. If you are new have an experienced racer check your car to see if it is bound up. Over tight gear mesh or tight axle spacing is great at creating heat and slowing your car.

After doing that, gaining experience and racing for 20 or so year get used to saying, "Now why did it do that?" Then try to figure it out and hopefully solve it.

[Dallas51170]

Man!!!!!!

Asking you guys a question is like asking my wife. I get lots of answers but am still puzzled afterward about what to do. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks
Dallas

[jockefors]

Man!!!!!!

Asking you guys a question is like asking my wife. I get lots of answers but am still puzzled afterward about what to do. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks
Dallas

haha God point...LOL
but try too keep it cool its the best way...

[jockefors]

Hi
up date .. to night i ran my G7 car 13 volt and full Cocke 3 min time and nott so much glue on the track with small tiers ...temp after aprox 3 min drive and 40-50 lapps
145-150 deg c ...
nott funny i think with less chocke and more glue andbigger tires this suucker engine will easy come upp too 200 deg C .. its a g7 engine with 459 arm and a hot vind it runns werry good byt sorry to say ...werry hot too

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

If you let the smoke out, it is too hot!

Fate

[jockefors]

Hi

If you let the smoke out, it is too hot!

Fate

allreddy tested ... like the g7 engine blow up....10 or 12 laps...
not fun..

[Dave_12]

Put the motor into a wing car and do 15 laps then check the lap time and the arm temperature with a infra red thermometer. 
What you want is no more than 110 degrees  Celsius .
This is a good measure that the motor will go the distance in a race.