74 replies to this topic

[Champion 507]

The American tracks have been well covered here but I was wondering if anyone has documentation, catalog info, pics, etc., on the Stan Engleman tracks... or is it in another thread that I just don't know about? In my limited racing career over the last 45 years I've raced on a S.E. 150' (mirror image of American Red), S.E. 220', and the 130' (a shorter version of the 220').

Also history of the company would be interesting. I'm sure PdL will be covering that in the new book.

[John Stezelecki]

Doug,

As you know Stan was well-known for his 1/24 scale tracks. His Engleman design is one of the finest in 1/24 scale history.

Did you know that Stan built HO tracks for Car Model Magazine in 1970? If you check out the issues from around June to let say November 1970 you will find advertisment of the tracks in around page 3 or so of each issue. The tracks had a fiberglass base and the track surface was made of wood with copper braid. The bank was 37 degrees.

Stez

[Champion 507]

Hi John,

I didn't know about the HO tracks until I read the thread on your Purple Mile. I would sure like to add that 220' giant to my "Bucket List", but a 4000 mile round trip for me is unreachable any time in the near or distant future. I wish you a ton of success with that track and I hope people all over the world come to see and run on the last Purple Mile.

[Hworth08]

Engleman ran some full page ads in some of the slot magazines. I might have seen one on the VSRN site?

[don.siegel]

Turns out that Engleman didn't do much advertising - I was only able to find two insertions, both in Car Model, and both half page: the first in May '66 and then this one in December '66. The first one announces opening of their "Eastern" plant, in Winchester, VA, in addition to one in El Paso, TX, but six months later, all they listed was the Virginia location...

And the name of the company is actually Stan Engleman Enterprises / Hi-Speed Raceways, Inc.

At $22/foot that would make the 220-foot raceway a $4,840 job - not too expensive it seems, but maybe that was strictly for the track, without fittings...

[Guy Spaulding]

The layout, size, and flat corners brings back vivid memories.

In 1966 or 67, Road Runner, of El Cajon, CA, had this track in their racing center. It was one of four tracks at their location. And, even though it was not their primary track for racing, they ran a team event on this track. Teams of four players ran identical bodies, the famous Dodge Lil-Red-Wagon. Mounted in the middle of the bed, behind the cab, was a toggle switch that allowed them to reverse the polarity of the motor. Teams would run in every other lane, in opposite direction from one another. Goal lines would be marked on the track before the lanes would incline into the bank. The goal was for a team to push a ping-pong ball across a goal line. (Sadly, even back then, track owners had to get imaginative to come up with new ideas to get people into the track.)

I thought the track was a 130' Engleman, but it really looked the same as the photo. How big was this track?

[Hworth08]

I've seen that ad in a full page version, somewhere! The full page shows the turn after the bridge. The track is very similiar, less the esses, that Larry Greenhill owned in Clarksville, TN. I remember the ad as I printed it for Larry.

The track in Clarksville was built by Tunkel and is now at Central Raceway in LaVernge, TN. Larry completely rebuilt the track into a very nice layout.

[jimht]

I believe the track in the ad is the 200'.
It was a mirror image of the 220' (similar in Elmsford) and the 180' that I have (almost identical except for length).
Same track as the one that used to be at Bernie Fox's shop in New Orleans, site of one of the six Speed & Sport National Championship races and several Texas Series races during the late '60s, early '70s.
Fun to race on except for having to clean the glue off the copper strip every heat or your car would stop in the corners...

[Jim Brown]

Mr. jimht (Mr. or Honeycutt as I knew him in the '60s) do you know what happened to the mirror 155' or 160' Engleman from Heights Hobby that Mr. Drewes had.

And I was told by speedracer he had one also in Odessa.

[S.O. Watt]

I ran on the 220' in New Orleans in the NCC race in '70. Super neat track, and with one of those "sandpaper" finishes! First time I ever wore out a set of front tyres and the bat pans in one race!

Fond memories.

[Jim Brown]

This is the green track that was in Houston.

[Champion 507]

Guys,
Please take another look at the ad pic that Don Siegel posted above. Take a look at the main straight. To me it appears there are 3 track joints between the lead on and the main bank, meaning there are possibly 2 straight sections making up the front straight. If that is the case and the sections are 8 feet long, it means the front straight is only 16 feet long. Also look at the exit of the main bank. See how short it appears to be before you come to the deadman? With the personal experience I have had on a SE 130 foot and a 220, I really think the ad pic is of a 130 not a 220.

Jim Brown,
The SE 150 that came to Tulsa was originally from Texas. Somewhere I have a poor zerox copy of a picture Jim Caraway (from Odessa?) sent me in about 1977 of him standing inside the main bank of the track. He was the last Texas owner of that track before it came to Oklahoma in 1978 or '79. I was thinking Jim told me that it had originally come from Broadway Hobbies in Houston. I wanted to buy it but I just didn't have the money. Anyway, the first Tulsa location only lasted about 6 months before it closed. Apparently the owner didn't pay many of his bills and the SE along with an American Orange were put in storage. The storage bill was never paid and another guy came along in about 1980 and bought both tracks at auction. The storage facility was trying to get some money out of the back rent that was owed.

The second guy set up the SE but put the Orange in storage as he didn't have enough room. He was open at his first location about a year then moved 3 miles west. He was only open at the second location for less than a year. I very distinctly remember driving to the track around July 4th, 1981. I got out of my car, walked to the front door, pulled on it and it was locked. I looked in through the glass and EVERYTHING was gone.

I later found out the SE had gone to Ft. Smith, Arkansas. I was over there about a year or so later and found the place and it WAS the SE! I have no clue what happened to the Orange. All that was over 25 years ago. I have asked a few people over the years what happened to the tracks but I haven't found anyone who knows.

The white track in the background of the above pic is interesting. Anyone know the story on it?

[tonyp]

Looks exactly Ike the small one nutley had, theirs was yellow..

[Champion 507]

Our 130 had blue sides and the 220 was red. The 220 was parallel to the front street and there were many large panes of plate glass at the front of the store. That, combined with the seasonal weather changes played havoc with the copper tape. The tape would either pop up or the solder joints would break causing an open circuit. I have no recollection of how many power taps there were in the track. The 130 seemed to fare better because it was at the back of the store away from any windows, especially large plate ones.

[jimht]

Jim Brown,
the Houston Green track spent some time in Victoria then left Texas.
I guess Doug Azary has chronicled its travels after that.
Doug Azary,
Engleman tracks were built in one piece, then sectioned and butt joints added after where-ever the guys in the factory felt like.
On my 180' Yellow the driver's panel is one piece about 22' long.
The straight pieces are mostly ten or eleven feet. The 10' diameter turns are pretty much one piece.
I doubt that there's a "standard" "small" eight foot section on the thing...it's a real joy to move around.
The track in the ad is a reverse of my Engleman as was the one in New Orleans. That's why I thought it was a 200'.
You may be right, though, looks too small. It's not a 200'.
I would estimate 140'-150'...an indicator that Stan cranked out some "C" tracks with the esses that were under 180'.
The white track in Jim Brown's picture is a "C" track that is as small as you've indicated, but to make the design work at that length the drivers were split 4 on each leg of the "C" and there were no esses.

[Champion 507]

JIMHT QUOTE:


the Houston Green track spent some time in Victoria then left Texas.


That's it Jim, Victoria, TX. As I was typing my earlier post, Odessa just didn't sound right but I couldn't remember where Caraway was from. It's been over 30 years.


In looking at the picture some more I seem to recall that mark on the side panel of the track about midway down the backstretch. Was that where the lap counter was?

[Jaz]

Alot of people know this one. A 220 footer....errr, Nuvolari.

[Ben Martinez]

Jim Brown,
the Houston Green track spent some time in Victoria then left Texas.
I guess Doug Azary has chronicled its travels after that.
Doug Azary,
Engleman tracks were built in one piece, then sectioned and butt joints added after where-ever the guys in the factory felt like.
On my 180' Yellow the driver's panel is one piece about 22' long.
The straight pieces are mostly ten or eleven feet. The 10' diameter turns are pretty much one piece.
I doubt that there's a "standard" "small" eight foot section on the thing...it's a real joy to move around.
The track in the ad is a reverse of my Engleman as was the one in New Orleans. That's why I thought it was a 200'.
You may be right, though, looks too small. It's not a 200'.
I would estimate 140'-150'...an indicator that Stan cranked out some "C" tracks with the esses that were under 180'.
The white track in Jim Brown's picture is a "C" track that is as small as you've indicated, but to make the design work at that length the drivers were split 4 on each leg of the "C" and there were no esses.

[Ben Martinez]

Jim,

Bernie's track in New Orleans (Metairie) was my home track. We always knew it as a shortened Engleman 185. The esses were more of a wiggle and could be punched just like a straight short chute. The track was one of the nicest I've ever run on. For what it's worth there was a 135 in Mobile with the wicked esses. That may have been an AllTech of similar layout.

Ben

[Ron Hershman]

Does any one know exactly when Stan Engleman started building tracks?

[tonyp]

I know Tom thumb in Union, NJ, was in business in '65 and they were the Engleman rep for the area. That's was where I saw my first raceway on Thanksgiving weekend.

[Old pink can guy]

Any pictures of the 220' full view?

Thanks,

Ken

[JRCoffelt]

The American tracks have been well covered here but I was wondering if anyone has documentation, catalog info, pics, etc., on the Stan Engleman tracks... or is it in another thread that I just don't know about? In my limited racing career over the last 45 years I've raced on a S.E. 150' (mirror image of American Red), S.E. 220', and the 130' (a shorter version of the 220').

Also history of the company would be interesting. I'm sure PdL will be covering that in the new book.

The green Engleman track that was in Tulsa, was bought by A Mr. C. Debus at a mini storage auciton and then sold to Mr. J. R. Coffelt. Operated from fall of 1980 until July of 1982. Sold to a shop in Ft. Smith about a year later, the smaller "Orange" track had been sold in 1981 to a store in Iowa, don't remember a name or town. (Brain cells starting to warm up a bit, maybe Dodge City, Iowa)

To confirm the Engleman track is the same one is easy. The last butt joint on the front straight away had dips on both sides of the joint just as it raised up into the hi bank curve extra beams were added to raise the particle board on both pieces to make it a smoother joint to keep the cars from flying off the track. The wire braid area was also routered to wider than factory to accomidate the new braid that was installed when it was moved from 21st and 129th to 21st and Memorial in Tulsa.

[JRCoffelt]

Guys,
Please take another look at the ad pic that Don Siegel posted above. Take a look at the main straight. To me it appears there are 3 track joints between the lead on and the main bank, meaning there are possibly 2 straight sections making up the front straight. If that is the case and the sections are 8 feet long, it means the front straight is only 16 feet long. Also look at the exit of the main bank. See how short it appears to be before you come to the deadman? With the personal experience I have had on a SE 130 foot and a 220, I really think the ad pic is of a 130 not a 220.

Jim Brown,
The SE 150 that came to Tulsa was originally from Texas. Somewhere I have a poor zerox copy of a picture Jim Caraway (from Odessa?) sent me in about 1977 of him standing inside the main bank of the track. He was the last Texas owner of that track before it came to Oklahoma in 1978 or '79. I was thinking Jim told me that it had originally come from Broadway Hobbies in Houston. I wanted to buy it but I just didn't have the money. Anyway, the first Tulsa location only lasted about 6 months before it closed. Apparently the owner didn't pay many of his bills and the SE along with an American Orange were put in storage. The storage bill was never paid and another guy came along in about 1980 and bought both tracks at auction. The storage facility was trying to get some money out of the back rent that was owed.

The second guy set up the SE but put the Orange in storage as he didn't have enough room. He was open at his first location about a year then moved 3 miles west. He was only open at the second location for less than a year. I very distinctly remember driving to the track around July 4th, 1981. I got out of my car, walked to the front door, pulled on it and it was locked. I looked in through the glass and EVERYTHING was gone.

I later found out the SE had gone to Ft. Smith, Arkansas. I was over there about a year or so later and found the place and it WAS the SE! I have no clue what happened to the Orange. All that was over 25 years ago. I have asked a few people over the years what happened to the tracks but I haven't found anyone who knows.

The white track in the background of the above pic is interesting. Anyone know the story on it?


The crossover section was bad on the Orange track and was going to have to be rebuilt.

[Champion 507]

J.R.

I very distinctly remember driving to the track around July 4th, 1981

Sorry I got the year wrong, I was off by one but I remembered it was around July 4th.