30 replies to this topic

[stevphens]

The local self-proclaimed slot car expert says the only difference in pickup braid is the number of strands, and there is no difference in the hardness of the individual wire strands.

A well-known pro racer and builder writes that a particular braid is softer than any other brand. Does he mean this particular braid has more strands, or that the strands are made of softer wire?

[MSwiss]

There is certainly different temper braid.

Too hard and a light wing car will pop out of the slot easier on take-off.

Too soft and it will get twisted/crumpled up too easily in a wreck with any car.

My personal favorite is Parma Big Mama.

[stevphens]

Thanks, Mike! I appreciate your reply!

Some brands of braid seem to wear faster (especially on the left side of the guide) even though they had the same number of strands. I guess that's the braid with less temper.

I wonder how much difference in friction against the track braid there is between low and high temper guide braid?

[MSwiss]

The wear on one side is usually arcing.

As far as which braid is faster, you'll just have to test on the track you race on with the type of car you race.

Length of braid will also be a factor. Short braid is usually faster in a wing car but on something like a Retro car on a flat track, longer braid is usually better and burnt braid is definitely a bad idea.

[Hworth08]

Almost off-topic but very soft and vintage braid can be made from modern 104 strand lead wire. I can't remember the name of the wire that was de-braided for lead wire but it was popular until Cox released their soft braid.

The lead wire braid has a short life on a commercial track.

[Mike Patterson]

Rick, you might want to check your guide and make sure the front is parallel to the track surface and not tilted. If it's tilted, that could explain why one side wears faster.

I use Parma Big Mama braid, too.

[stevphens]

Thanks for the info, guys!

The guide is level sideways, so it must be arcing. What are common causes of arcing other than dirt? I started cleaning my braid with a tooth brush and lighter fluid between heats, then applied braid juice. This helped the wear.

I'm racing Flexi NASCAR, so maybe testing will show the best braid length to be somewhere in the middle. Should I test braid length or stiffness (temper) first? I've read that we should only change one thing at a time.

Has anyone ever experimented with braid width? I remember narrow braid back in the '60s.

Hope I'm not asking questions answered before. I've read all the tech posts here and don't remember these questions...

[slotcarone]

Rick,

I suggest using Parma Big Mama braid also - it works and you don't have to do any experimenting. Keep it as long as the guide flag allows.

I also recommend using the Parma red braid conditioner between heats. Others may do something different but myself I never brush the braid I just make sure it is straight between heats.

This is what works for me!!!

[Cheater]

Rick,

Tally another vote for Parma Big Mama braid. I've never found any other brand that works as well for me.

Learning to "read" your guide braid wear patterns can tell you an awful lot. As mentioned in a past THREAD you might not have seen, here's the bread wear pattern that I always like to see:



This shot was taken after running an 8x3 minute race and based on color, it looks like I changed the RH braid in the picture partway through.

BTW, I've seen tracks that would wear or arc one braid even with everything flat and true...

[Noose]

You haven't mentioned what type of guide you are using. One thing I have noticed with some guides is that while they look nice and flat and even, they aren't. I usually take an emery board that has a slot cut in it and run the guide over it (on a block) until I don't see any shiny spots on the bottom. Sometimes the molding process causes some bowing from the blade outward. I first noticed this when I changed from one brand of guide to another and all of a sudden one front wheel was slightly up in the air.

[Cheater]

Good point, Noose. Your experience is the same as mine.

I have an old tech block with a narrow slot and have glued two long strips of emery cloth flush with the sides of the slot. Running the guide along the slot a few times makes them nicely flat.

[stevphens]

First time I ever heard of flattening the bottom of the guide flag. It's always fun to learn something new! When a thread is started, you never know where it will go, or what unknown (to me) valuable info may be given. Thanks!

I use Cahoza guides when allowed, but some local classes require Parma. The wear occurs on both brands. Perhaps I'm just a cheapskate? After reading that braid is sometimes changed during a race, I'm wondering if using it for several races is such a great idea? What are some good indicators that it's time to replace braid?

Thanks for the link to the old thread! I have read it, but at my age forgetfulness has set in. I'll read it again. Seems like that's where I learned to clean off the braid, coat with magic marker, then run to determine wear patterns?

[Chris Barnes]

Rick,

As for the width of the braid, if the track has a deep braid recess, then narrow braid might be an advantage. Also, the negative side of the braid (driver side) will typically burn first. If the braid on the track is dirty, then you will have more arching, which will burn the braid.

Chris

[Phil Irvin]

I like the Big Mama braids, too. I use a very stiff brush to comb the last quarter if the braid out to soften and conform to the track braid. I use the red Parma juice, too.

I get two races and practice. Going into the third, I change braid.

OLPHRT
PHIL I.

[MantaRay]

It's always fun to learn something new! When a thread is started, you never know where it will go, or what unknown (to me) valuable info may be given. Thanks!
I use Cahoza guides when allowed, but some local classes require Parma. The wear occurs on both brands.

Steve, I totally agree with you on learning something new... What you mentioned above, "Spec" guide flags (Parma only), is new to me.

[tonyp]

Big Mama braid here. I put new ones in for each race before tech. I use a wire brush on the top side against the guide and use, believe it or not, Tire Tweak between heats on it. I always start with new braid, use the old stuff for practice. Braid is cheap, cars run crappy with crappy braid...

The Parma and Cahoza guides are pretty straight. JK and Red Fox not so much, and need to be sanded on the bottom. I have run all styles on my retro cars and honestly if there is a difference I am not a good enough driver to tell.

[MantaRay]

I am not a good enough driver to tell.

Tony... That's a good one.

[Cheater]

Perhaps I'm just a cheapskate? After reading that braid is sometimes changed during a race, I'm wondering if using it for several races is such a great idea? What are some good indicators that it's time to replace braid?

Like Tony, I generally start a race with new or nearly new braid. It's cheap and new braid seems a lot of times to give a little faster speed than used braid that looks perfect.

As to when to change it, the bottom line is when lap times start to fall off. With experience, you'll find in most cases that any burning or black on the braid, even on just one side, will give slower laps times. Obviously, in almost all cases you won't have lap times to compare so the braid gets changed based on appearance alone.

Thanks for the link to the old thread! I have read it, but at my age forgetfulness has set in. I'll read it again. Seems like that's where I learned to clean off the braid, coat with magic marker, then run to determine wear patterns?

I did write that in the Tome, but honestly, I've only bothered to do it a few times. Once you know what you're looking for in terms of the visible wear pattern on the braid, the marker trick isn't necessary. I can usually detect a nose-down guide angle, even a small one, from the way front of the braids will be more "polished" than the tails.

[MantaRay]

I love seeing the word "Tome".

[tonyp]

Mel Tome, the velvet fog.

[Cheater]

Mel Tormé, Tony... LOL!!!

[tonyp]

The young whippersnappers will be clueless.

LOL.

[Rotorranch]

As to when to change it, the bottom line is when lap times start to fall off.

I don't have that problem... I fall off more than my lap times!

Rotor

[slotcarone]

The young whippersnappers will be clueless.

Yeah but they can probably feel the difference between the guide flags!!! I'm with you on this one!!!

[911GT3]

Mel Tormé, Tony... LOL!!!

The young whippersnappers will be clueless.

Didn't he make a couple of appearances on Night Court?