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Where has all the naphtha gone?


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#1 Mike Patterson

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:30 PM

I went to buy a new can of lighter fluid today, and discovered naphtha is no longer an ingredient. Ronsonol now contains a "light petroleum distillate", and Zippo is made with a "synthetic isoparaffinic hydrocarbon". Does any one know why this change has taken place?

And how hard is it to pry the spout off of an existing can, so it can be refilled?

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#2 MSwiss

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:33 PM

Not real hard, off a plastic Ronsonol bottle, with a good screwdriver.

You do have to hold on to the bottle pretty firm to snap the top back on.

I wouldn't fill it up to the top.

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#3 James Wendel

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:52 PM

I carry a small bottle with an eyedropper cap on my slot box.
I get just the amount of naptha that I need, right where it's needed. :rolleyes:
You can't always get what you want...

#4 Phil Hackett

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:27 PM

I went to buy a new can of lighter fluid today, and discovered naphtha is no longer an ingredient. Ronsonol now contains a "light petroleum distillate", and Zippo is made with a "synthetic isoparaffinic hydrocarbon". Does any one know why this change has taken place?

And how hard is it to pry the spout off of an existing can, so it can be refilled?

The EPA and lawyers? That would be my first guess. Check out the links below. Benzene is/was a component of the original Ronsonol. The second link describes a newer Ronsonol. Benzene is a big no-no now days.

The synthetic isoparaffinic hydrocarbon (this is redundant doubletalk) is still close to what was used. What this says is that it's a branched straight-chained and saturated hydrocarbon compound. As opposed to a mixture of various petroleum compounds which also contained benzene (an aromatic ring-chained molecule).

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#5 Victor Poulin

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:46 AM

We can still buy naphtha at Lowes up here in NH. I buy it in quart cans but it's not cheap. As I recall, the last time I bought some it cost me around $12 for a quart.

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#6 Ron Hershman

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:51 AM

I went to buy a new can of lighter fluid today, and discovered naphtha is no longer an ingredient. Ronsonol now contains a "light petroleum distillate"

The "official" ORS Ronsonol that was purchased last year contains naphtha.

Now don't be stealing a can at the next race. ;) :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

#7 Rick

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:37 AM

Potahtoe... potaytoe.

Definitions for "Petroleum Distillates"... Low boiling or light petroleum distillates (LPD) are highly volatile mixtures of hydrocarbons. These mixtures are sometimes called ligroin, petroleum ether, or naphtha...

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#8 jimht

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:41 AM

We can still buy naphtha at Lowes up here in NH. I buy it in quart cans but it's not cheap. As I recall, the last time I bought some it cost me around $12 for a quart.

Strange price variation... My local Lowes has it for $12.48 a gallon.

Lowes VMP Naptha

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#9 Victor Poulin

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:05 AM

Wow, that is a huge difference, Jim! My local Lowes doesn't offer it by the gallon for some reason. My guess is that they don't sell enough of it to make it worth stocking it by the gallons.

I'll have to ask the next time I go; perhaps they can order it for me.

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#10 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:37 AM

Vic, any paint store will carry it by the gallon.
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#11 Victor Poulin

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:04 AM

Thanks, John. I'll have to check into that. I use it not only for building, but I also use it to clean the track. ;)

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#12 MSwiss

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:16 AM

Any paint store except the one in my strip mall. They don't carry it at all.

Naphtha just doesn't seem to be that necessary to the general public.

I have to go to Menard's and get it for $12.99 a gallon. The much closer Home Depot only sells it in quarts for $7.98(?) or about $32 for a gallon's worth.

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#13 Jeff Bechtel

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:27 AM

I have always bought VM&P Naphtha at my local Ace hardware store. If I remember correctly I purchased a gallon for $7.99.

#14 Ron Hershman

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:34 AM

If you pay close attention... recently producers of such "chemicals" are starting to go to smaller "more convenient" sizing of product to get more money and ship more containers in less space... lowering shipping costs and "Haz Mat" fees. Let's them make more profit in the long run any way you slice it.

Thinners, resins, etc., are all going to this new trend.

#15 MSwiss

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:37 AM

I have always bought VM&P Naptha at my local Ace hardware store. If I remember correctly I purchased a gallon for $7.99.

AFAIK, all naphtha bought at chains is the V,M & P type. I don't think I've ever seen any other kind.

When I opened in 2005, it was $7.48 a gallon at Menard's and probably about $5.50 or $6 a quart at Home Depot. It's crept up about a $1 a year since, for a gallon.

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#16 Victor Poulin

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:38 AM

I have to run out this afternoon, I'll check my local Ace hardware just for the heck of it to see if they carry it.

BTW Swiss is right, Jennie said the last quart she picked up for me at Lowes was $7.98 per quart, and they didn't stock gallons.
At $7.98 per quart, I wouldn't want to buy a gallon anyways. :rolleyes: OK, so I'm cheap. :laugh2: :laugh2:
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#17 Ron Hershman

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:42 AM

Did ya check at Walmart???

#18 MSwiss

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:50 AM

BTW, Don Perko told me a story about going to a race in the '80s and running out of gas. Everyone dug in their box and were able to squirt enough lighter fluid in the gas tank to get them to the next station.

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#19 Victor Poulin

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:52 AM

Did ya check at Walmart????

I did a while back, Ron, and at that time they didn't carry it.
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#20 Rick

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:00 PM

Back in 2001 I could buy VM&P Naphtha at my local paint store for $18 for a five gallon bucket. I checked the internet and it now sells for about $53 (retail)for the same can!!!

Check a mom and pop paint store; they always have the five gallon buckets in stock, at least here. I just called my local paint store, they sell it for $46/5 gal...

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#21 RomanK

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:34 PM

Lowes has it around here (Northern, VA, area) for $12 something a gallon. Sherwin Williams gets $21 a gallon. Wally World doesn't carry it. I'll have to check Ace.

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#22 Cheater

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:22 PM

I have no problem buying lighter fluid at my local Kroger grocery store...
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#23 MrWeiler

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:59 PM

(music) Where has all the naphtha gone?

... Long time passing...

(music) Where has all the naphtha gone?

... Long long time ago...

(music) Where has all the naphtha gone?

... Gone to EPA everyone... :D
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#24 Mike Patterson

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:40 PM

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I know I can get naphtha at Lowe's, I was just wondering why it disappeared from lighter fluid after all these years.

I've got some Zippo with the SIH, and the stuff feels and smells different. I was reluctant to try the Ronsonol, for fear it would be another poor substitute. Hence my question on "reloading" the containers I already have.

Does Coleman fuel still have naphtha in it?

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#25 Garry

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:10 PM

Coleman fuel is a highly refined pure form of Nnphtha. Naphtha is also called white gas, this is unleaded gasoline at its purest form with no additives. And yes, it all contains benzene. Benzene isn't a recent no-no, it was taken off of the market in the '70s; at that time only labs could buy it in small quantities. Benzene is in almost every aromatic hydrocarbon. my guess is that the new lighter fluid has less in it than the old.

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#26 Rotorranch

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:58 PM

... Long time passing...

... Long long time ago...

... Gone to EPA everyone... :D

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

That's too funny!

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#27 Zippity

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:04 PM

Mike,

I was singing that song to myself as I was scrolling down the page.

You ruined it for me. :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Does this mean that great minds think alike? ;) ;)

#28 Big Mike

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 05:42 PM

All naphtha is the same. The VW&P stands for "varnish makers and painters" naphtha. As far as Coleman fuel (white gas) goes it is a petroleum-based product (oil) as with many raceways go. The Coleman fuel leaves a residue on the track whereas naphtha dries clean like a brake cleaner.

Just a little information for everyone to ponder.
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#29 Rick

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 05:49 PM

Modern Coleman fuel is basically naphtha...

Hydrotreated Light Distillate, CAS # 68410-97-9, OSHA-500 ppm, 100.0
This product contains:
*Cyclohexane, CAS # 110-82-7, OSHA-300 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Nonane, CAS # 111-84-2, ACGIH-200 ppm
*Octane, CAS # 111-65-9, OSHA-400 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Heptane, CAS # 142-82-5, OSHA-500 ppm, ACGIH-400 ppm
*Pentane, CAS # 109-66-0, OSHA-1000 ppm, ACGIH-600 ppm

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#30 Ron Hershman

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:13 PM

Yeah, more "straight" than "refined" naphtha. Using Coleman will leave the track slick versus using VMP naphtha.

#31 Phil Hackett

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:14 PM

Guys...

Naphtha is not a single compound, just like gasoline isn't a single compound. Naphtha is a blend of lightweight liquids that form a type of hydrocarbon liquid. It's not like the single compounds Rick just posted. It's not octane or hexane. It's a blend. It's not like it's not available anymore but it is more expensive.

BTW, the OP referred to Ronsonol which IS a particular *type* of naphtha but there are dozens of different blends that can have trade names attached to them.

And, yes, benzene USED to be a part of naphtha.
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#32 flem1959

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 08:13 PM

BTW, Don Perko told me a story about going to a race in the '80s and running out of gas. Everyone dug in their box and were able to squirt enough lighter fluid in the gas tank to get them to the next station.

That reminds me of the time Jerry Miller's '68 Impala crapped an alternator on the way to Cincinnatti. We made it to the race, but we had to stop every chance we got on the way home to charge the battery.

The sun was coming up when we finally got back to Indianapolis.
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#33 Rick

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 01:51 AM

What I posted was a copy/paste from the MSDS sheet for Coleman fuel. There is no oily residue any longer from Coleman fuel, it will dry just as clean as naphtha.

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#34 Garry

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:08 AM

My suggestion is use whatever you want or whatever you can afford, naphtha, Coleman fuel, lighter fluid, toluene, hexane, methyl ethyl ketone, or benzene (mothballs), it's all made out of crude oil.
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#35 redbackspyder

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:12 PM

Rick,

I hate to correct you, but Coleman fuel will not dry as cleanly as pure naphtha. It leaves behind an oily residue. We know this all too well at Buena Park, because that has been an issue with several racers.

Naphtha is naphtha, Coleman is not.

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#36 Rick

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:27 PM

It has a lot to do with the method you use to clean it, as much as what is used to clean it. I always used naphtha because it was the least aromatic, but have used lacquer thinner, gasoline from the pump, and Coleman fuel. They all worked and did what they were supposed to do. I just watched a method used to clean a track and have never seen it done that way before. No one ever bitched about the bite on my tracks.

All I can tell you is read the MSDS for Coleman and read the information on the web.

How do you clean your tracks?

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#37 redbackspyder

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:34 PM

The residue left behind takes a long time to go away with Coleman. When a track is cleaned with VMP Naptha, there is no oily residue left behind. Just ask people like John Tore Anderson. They NEVER cleaned a track with Coleman. Ask Jay Kisling how he feels about getting lacquer thinner anywhere near SpeedZone's track. You will be shot. It is a raceway or race organizations decision on what to clean the track with, but I have never really heard much problem by ANYONE who cleans a track with straight VMP Naphtha.

And to mix spray glue up, what do you use ?

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#38 68Caddy

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:37 PM

You guys use that stuff on the track? :shok: I been drinking that stuff for years! :laugh2:

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#39 Rick

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:45 PM

Coleman Fuel

Read the first Line.

This is my last word about this topic. Use whatever you think is best for your track.

You are correct, all the above know way more than I would have ever known about tracks and cleaning them. I should just not comment on things I know nothing about. It doesn't matter what I used to spray my tracks or how I sprayed them or how I mixed it.

Enjoy...

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#40 The Bugman

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:46 PM

You guys use that stuff on the track? :shok: I been drinking that stuff for years! :laugh2:

Why doesn't that surprise me... :sarcastic_hand: :rofl:
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#41 68Caddy

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:49 PM

Oh my God this was a test only, and I did achieve my goal. ;) Puff out of the smoke my bud " Oscar the Bongman" appeared? :laugh2:

Love it because it works all the time. :D

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#42 Old pink can guy

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:45 PM

Nesta, I got it. Too bad he did not. :laugh2: :laugh2: Check my PM. :D
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#43 Garry

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:36 PM

There is more oil in the small bottle of glue used to make spray glue than there is in a 50 gallon drum of Coleman fuel. Just maybe you are using the wrong glue, or you are not letting the track dry long enough after cleaning it. There is no oil in Coleman fuel, if there was it would not atomize correctly and not vaporize in the orifice causing it not to burn in a nice blue flame. If there is oil in your Coleman fuel, you or one of your buddies put it there.

I've raced quit a few times against Torre and he never complained one time about me using Coleman fuel. I've used Coleman fuel for over thirty years and now you are trying to tell me it's no good.

Again use what you can afford. If you guys want to buy naphtha for me, I will use it. Until then I will keep using Coleman fuel. I don't see that changing any time soon.
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#44 Mike K

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:39 PM

As of 05/2010 and not updated since for Southern California Air Quality Management District, looks as though naphtha is no longer available in SoCal...

VM&P Naphtha Regulatory Data Sheet

SALES BANS: None

Future Limits: California (state) and SCAQMD

Notes
1. SCAQMD contains Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernadino counties
2. Industrial Maintenance Coatings Thinners are currently exempt from the VOC limits for Paint Thinners and Multipurpose Solvents

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#45 redbackspyder

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 01:45 AM

Garry,

I certainly am not saying you can't clean a track in Coleman. Hell, you can clean a track with cat urine, but VMP Naptha is preferable, according to people like Tore, who have told this to me time and time again, and since he is the GOAT, I will take his word for it.

And yes, by judging what is done all the time at Buena Park, we have seen the track take way too long to dry and to come in. Certain people set their cars up by the cleaner applied to the track, at least this is a belief that has been purported at Buena Park for years. This is why tire treatments have been the subject of talk lately in D3. Those that believe they are in the "know", really know very little when it comes to chemistry.

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#46 RomanK

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 08:12 AM

Coleman works fine but like Rick, I don't know anything about cleaning and prepping a track either. ;)

Roman Kormeluk


#47 DannyHotShot1

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:02 PM

Naptha is suppose to be taken completly off the market because it can be used to manufacture drugs.:dash2:
Daniel Kuntzman

#48 Gator Bob

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

... Long time passing...


... Long long time ago...


... Gone to EPA everyone... biggrin.gif

Yup...

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#49 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:47 PM

My local Ace Hardware has it in stock here, no problem. However, in Barrington ,we don't have meth manufacturers. Locals want the high buck stuff, sniff,sniff. LOL


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#50 Gator Bob

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:22 PM

Sell them locals ground pepper snuff .. call it 'Ghost' and it might be a 'hit'.   :shout:  :heat:  :king:   :wacko2:


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