Jump to content




Photo

Holy smokes! A tumbling we will go!


  • Please log in to reply
243 replies to this topic

#51 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 08 April 2008 - 12:34 PM

Rick,

I'm using Buffalo Arms polish and the piano wire starts to rust up in about three weeks. Granted, I need to do a better job of tinning...

Dennis S. just moved from Colorado, maybe the rust has not "found" him yet at his new location. :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott




#52 gascarnut

gascarnut

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Irvine, CA

Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:04 PM

Granted, neither Denver nor Irvine are the most humid parts of the country, but in a little more than a year of using the tumbler and the soap, I have not seen any corrosion on any of my frames beyond what I would class as mild patina. The steel does dull a bit after a while, but that's about it.

Perhaps the fact that I store all my cars in clear cases helps?

Dennis Samson
--------------------------
Scratchbuilding is life
Life is scratchbuilt

Samson Classics


#53 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,371 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:20 PM

Probably. Heck, I've had chassis turn within a day or two sitting in my slot box. I wound up putting little silica bags in each compartment.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#54 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:44 PM

East Coast is brutal from May through October. Winter is not bad but in the summer the piano wire rusts up immediately...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#55 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,980 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:49 PM

Tony,

If you think the East Coast is brutal, come on down to GA for a summer. We'll show you brutal humidity... :laugh2:

There is a reason why I tin the entire surface of any steel parts I use when building chassis...
  • James Fetherolf likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#56 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:55 PM

I've been in Mississippi, I know. LOL. It was humid at Christmas time.
  • James Fetherolf likes this

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#57 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:47 PM

As far as Dave Fortner goes, he was a racer and chassis builder from Arizona and was a great chassis innovator, as his "steel" chassis made for Dan back in 1969 shows.

Hi Dave,

That steel chassis dates from mid-1972. Dave Fortner began his "amateur" racing career in early 1972 at Speed & Sport after running in Arizona at the Tucson track. Dave was promoted (I have to verify this) to semi-pro in late 1972, and ran pro in 1973.

Dave and a fellow named Neil Kuhns from San Diego made a racing partnership and promoted "iso" frames from late 1972, and were the first in the nation (and the world) to use the huge side dams that are part of any wing car today.

The Aguirre chassis you have are pretty much copies of Lee Gilbert's 1971 frames and were also built in early 1972 by Jim before he shifted to his narrow center sections that are characteristic of his later cars.

Best regards,

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#58 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,868 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 08 April 2008 - 03:57 PM

I'm using Buffalo Arms polish and the piano wire starts to rust up in about three weeks.

Thanks, everyone, for the input.

I've never had a corrosion problem here unless I touched the bare steel with my "piss fingers" and didn't wipe it clean. It all started with the tumbler so I'm thinking it's the Cabelas and or Buffalo Arms polish. I'm going to use the Tide HE that Steve Okeefe uses and see if the problem stops. I'll report back on the results.

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#59 68Caddy

68Caddy

    The Direktor

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,546 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CA, by the beach of course

Posted 08 April 2008 - 10:17 PM

Mr. Larsen,

How is the progress with Dan DeBella's chassis? :blush:
Love to see some new pics on that winning car and some more background history, please at your convenience. :)

Sorry, it seems to be a topic of two things but that's cool. ;) I guess I got lost in Mr. DeBella's work. :big_boss:

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#60 Dave Larsen

Dave Larsen

    Race Leader

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts
  • Joined: 05-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbo's Black Track

Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:14 AM

"Pepe",

This reminds me of the aluminum endbell a few years back :sarcastic_hand: like then, you are WRONG again... :sarcastic_hand:

That steel chassis dates from mid-1972. Dave Fortner began his "amateur" racing career in early 1972 at Speed & Sport after running in Arizona at the Tucson track. Dave was promoted (I have to verify this) to semi-pro in late 1972, and ran pro in 1973.

The car was given to me by Mr. DeBella himself. :friends: I feel and I know that he would know the history of his own car better then you!!!

DC-65x, I'm very sorry for this on your thread on tumbling. :sun_bespectacled:

"Pepe", if you want to argue about this chassis and the car once it is restored, go right ahead! But not here. Show some class. Besides, you are just wasting your breath. :whistle3: :whistle3: :whistle3: I'm very sorry to be so blunt with you, but I'm going on what Dan :friends: has told me about the chassis/car and the race in '69. After all, it is his car. :wizard:

Regards,

Dave
Dave Larsen ..... AKA "The Vitter"  :diablo:..... Big or Small ..... I build them all   :sun_bespectacled:

#61 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 10 April 2008 - 09:25 AM

The car was given to me by Mr. DeBella himself I feel and I know that he would know the history of his own car better then you!!!

Dave,

With all due respect, if that chassis was built in 1969, I am the queen of England and you are the prince of Wales.

To begin with the drop arm and pans used on it weren't even available then. :laugh2:

Please get real and put the question to historical experts, such as Steve Okeefe, Tony P, or Rick Thigpen, since you hardly trust my own ability to figure out when such a chassis was produced.

Regards,

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#62 The Bugman

The Bugman

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: 22-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbor City, CA

Posted 10 April 2008 - 04:28 PM

Your majesty, should I bow or curtsey?? :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Again a lot of times I bump heads with PdL, on different topics... but never... THAT'S NEVER... on slot car history.

I've learned soooooooo much just by reading what this guy knows, and I was there when half this stuff came out the first time, too... ;)

Simply amazing knowledge, Mr. P.
Oscar Morales
8/16/49-9/18/13
Requiescat in Pace

#63 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 10 April 2008 - 08:01 PM

Oscar, that's very kind of you.

Dave knows a lot about history too, and is a Mura enthusiast, collecting everything he can find of the Mura products out there, and it is possible that we lock horns here and there about details.

It is of course not so easy to figure it all out, but the 1968 to 1973 pro-racing era is quite well-documented as far as who was what, and an analysis of the available period mags shows a clear pattern of chassis design and construction, that will be shown step by step to the enthusiast in the book Scott and I are doing. Thanks to Mike Morrissey and John Cukras for their newspaper, as well as Miniature Auto Racing, Car Model, Model Car Science, and the wealth of documents doanted to us by various parties over the years. We are fortunate to have just about every issue published plus great pictures, race reports, etc., and it is a gold mine of information.

Dave and I are enthusiasts first, and disagreements on detail info do not mean that we don't like each other. Dan is probably mistaken about the time at which he used that particular car and after so many years, memory can be a bit fuzzy, no big deal.

Going back to tumbling, Mike Steube was kind enough to loan me his machine for a few days and I used it to clean a few chassis I just finished repairing. The tumbling is great because one can adjust the time and get rid of the corrosion while keeping the nice patina on the old parts.

The first chassis came from the Bruce Paschal collection and was built and identified by John Cukras. It dates from May, 1968, and is typical of that period in time:

Posted Image

Posted Image

This one is from Mike Steube, basically and literally a couple of weeks later based on the motor-box design, and is the oldest angle-winder we have of Mike's in the collection:

Posted Image

Posted Image

What is really good about tumbling is that the fine detail such as engraving is not removed as media blasting sometimes will do, and it does not deform the parts.

Posted Image

These two next chassis were assumed to be an early steel job by Morrissey and by then-amateur racer Lee Gilbert, simply from their provenance, but there is little proof of that. Nonetheless they are both from early 1970. The first uses a commercially-produced steel section, that was then Dremeled to split the rails. Please note the pan return springs:

Posted Image

Posted Image

The next one is entirely hand-cut and at one time its front axle was upgraded from 1/8" to 3/32":

Posted Image

Posted Image

Tumbling is one of the best tools a chassis builder can have. :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#64 The Bugman

The Bugman

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: 22-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbor City, CA

Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:14 PM

The Cukras and Steube chassis were the last I remember, for my time racing slots ended in about '69, though I alway kept model car building, and kept my subscriptions to all the model mags that our guys wrote for, so I was able to continue seeing the lastest "chassis of the month"... :laugh2:

These are sooooooo fantastic to see again. As an old racer I really dig the '60s stuff... Thanks, Mr. P.

I'm also looking forward to seeing Mike Morrissey, as he was the first real pro (from Team Russkit) we kids met at American Raceway in Hawthorne in the '60s.
Oscar Morales
8/16/49-9/18/13
Requiescat in Pace

#65 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 11 April 2008 - 09:19 AM

Hopefully, and thanks to John Cukras's persuasion efforts, he might show up Sunday for the Legends race.

In any case, his former team mate Fred "Kenny" Larimer will be there. :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#66 The Bugman

The Bugman

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: 22-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbor City, CA

Posted 11 April 2008 - 10:17 PM

I was at John's this week... lookin' good for Morrissey to show Sunday. I've been trying to get Mike Kondor (remember him?) to show, too... hmmmm, maybe.
Oscar Morales
8/16/49-9/18/13
Requiescat in Pace

#67 endbelldrive

endbelldrive

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Location:Witless Protection Program

Posted 12 April 2008 - 12:59 AM

I remember a Mike Kondor podium finish with a car that had a pretty cool Mike Morrissey chassis. :heat:

Posted Image
  • James Fetherolf likes this
Bob Suzuki

#68 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:51 PM

Here are some Terry Schmid frames that will go through the process... maybe. In fact, they might be left the way they are because when they are that clean, they should be kept original as much as possible.

They were donated to the museum by Mill Conroy, who was a good friend of Terry's and won the last pro race at J&J Raceway in 1969 using a Schmid frame.

These date from mid-1968 and add to the puzzle... The pictures were hastily taken, but better ones will be shown once back from my Yurro trip next week.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

:)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#69 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 18 April 2008 - 11:45 AM

Interesting that the older car has the plate in front of the motor and the newer car doesn't.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#70 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 949 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 18 April 2008 - 01:55 PM

Interesting indeed!

The "older" chassis looks to be May or June 1968, while the "newer" chassis (in the iteration we are seeing anyway), dates from at least August, more probably September or maybe even October; it has a plumber hinge...

#71 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 18 April 2008 - 02:45 PM

Steve,

Just for reference and to put it all into perspective, what were the dates of the first West Coast sidewinder race and do you know the date of the Nutley Car Model race, which was the first "real" East Coast sidewinder race.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#72 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,868 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 18 April 2008 - 06:59 PM

what was the dates of the first West Coast sidewinder race

Hi Tony,

April 20, 1968. I'm looking up the Nutley date...

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#73 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,868 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 18 April 2008 - 07:01 PM

... do you know the date of the Nutley Car Model race, which was the first "real" East Coast sidewinder race.

Tony,

There was the Third New York Car Model race at Nutley on May 25, 1968. Is that the one?

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#74 68Caddy

68Caddy

    The Direktor

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,546 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CA, by the beach of course

Posted 19 April 2008 - 01:05 AM

Ok guys,

This is getting comical. Where is this thread going? :blink:

So what's up with Dan DeBella's car? Are you saying that it's not a car from the timeframe as it's told by Vitter?

I have a feeling it's all political, my two cents. :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#75 68Caddy

68Caddy

    The Direktor

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,546 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CA, by the beach of course

Posted 19 April 2008 - 01:12 AM

TSR,

BTW I think you would be quite cute as the queen of England, sorry no offense :laugh2: :laugh2:

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#76 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 19 April 2008 - 10:49 AM

Rick,

That would be the race. Thanks...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#77 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 949 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 19 April 2008 - 12:25 PM

Thanks from me too, Rick! :D

So the Third New York Car Model road race was held about 35 days after the "first" anglewinder race at J&Js in SoCal (April 20, 1968).

But we also know the Second New York Car Model race featured four anglewinders, one of which belonged to Sandy Gross, and he won that race.

A race report for the Third NY Car Model appears in the September issue of Car Model magazine. It is undated (an annoying habit they had) but it does mention being right after the Columbus race, which was on May 18.

A race report for the Second NY Car Model (also undated) appears one month earlier in the August issue of Car Model (a copy is posted on my web site), so it is reasonable to assume (there's that word again) the race has held in April.

My guess is the weekend of April 27-28; only seven days after the race at J&Js in SoCal. Just about enough time to cut up an inline and make an anglewinder out of it... ;)

#78 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 19 April 2008 - 12:50 PM

So what's up with Dan DeBella's car? Are you saying that it's not a car from the time frame as it's told by Vitter?
I have a feeling it's all political, my two cents.

Nesta,

Yes indeed, the chassis in question was built at least two years after their claimed (or not well-remembered) date. The history of slot car pro-racing is quite well documented in period print and pictures, and thanks to the efforts of people like Steve Okeefe, Rick Thigpen, and many other enthusiasts including Yours Truly, it is now possible to tell within weeks when a 1968 to 1973 chassis was actually built, and often by... whom.

As far as being "political", I am afraid that your two cents are not worth a penny.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#79 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,868 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 19 April 2008 - 03:00 PM

My thread is about the restoration of vintage pro slot cars. EVERYONE is welcome to share their tips, techniques, restoration projects, and discuss the relevant history and dates of these great old cars in my thread if they would like to :) .

A race report for the Second NY Car Model (also undated) appears one month earlier in the August issue of Car Model (a copy is posted on my web site), so it is reasonable to assume (there's that word again) the race has held in April.

My guess is the weekend of April 27 - 28; only seven days after the race at J&Js in SoCal. Just about enough time to cut up an inline and make an anglewinder out of it... ;)

Bingo Steve ;) . The Second Car Model race was held on April 27, 1968, at Hamilton Family Hobby in Brooklyn, NY. It was for GP cars and was won by Sandy Gross.

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#80 68Caddy

68Caddy

    The Direktor

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,546 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CA, by the beach of course

Posted 19 April 2008 - 06:16 PM

TSR,

You are right but luckily, I'm not banking with you. :laugh2:
I'm glad I'm not the sensitive type of a guy. ;)

dc-65x
I think this is a great thread.

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#81 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:27 AM

Has anyone experimented with finer media than the normal rabbit pellets that get wedged in the corners? Sometimes the areas between the rails don't get quite the exposure I would like. Sand? Smaller media?
Paul Wolcott

#82 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,418 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:23 AM

Pablo,

In the past, I've used corn cob media for general cleaning of used brass before reloading and with the polish supplied by the manufacturer (in this case, a company named "Dillon's") it did an excellent job of cleaning/polishing and brightening very tarnished shell cases. It took quite a long time in a vibratory cleaner though.

Corn cob media is fairly small, but quite soft so it's gentle on the metal. There also is walnut shell media which is harder and more angular than corn cob media... but still a relatively "soft" media. Then there are the various ceramic media available in different sizes and shapes. There are also still more aggressive media and some in very small shapes that will leave a less-shiny finish since they are in effect "sanding" the material.

I've never used any of this stuff, but it makes me wonder if using it might shorten the life of the tumbler/vibrator's bowl. A Google search will probably give loads of ideas and suggestions and then just soldering some junk brass scraps together as test objects should get you headed in the right direction.

When I was a kid, the track owner way back in the '60s was using a tumbler and some sort of mineral media (sand?, pebbles?... beats me) and got great results in a pretty short time from what I remember.
John Havlicek

#83 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,868 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:11 PM

Has anyone experimented with finer media than the normal rabbit pellets that get wedged in the corners? Sometimes the areas between the rails don't get quite the exposure I would like. Sand? Smaller media?

Hi Pablo,

What media are you using? The Buffalo Arms is on the left and if that's what you're using the Cabela's on the right might work better for you.

mediaa.jpg

My advice to everyone is to not use either company's liquid polish. I have never had corrosion problem until I used this stuff. I'm now trying what Steve Okeefe uses, a low suds liquid Tide for front loader washing machines. "A little dab will do ya". :)

Tumble onward!

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#84 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 28 April 2008 - 09:30 PM

Thanks Rick, I'm using the Buffalo Arms. Maybe I'll try the Cabela's next time.

"A little dab'll do ya" - that's Brylcreem, dude!!! :laugh2: Will it work? On my frames, I mean? :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#85 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,980 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:57 PM

Well, Pablo, it sure won't work on your bald head!!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#86 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 29 April 2008 - 04:19 PM

What are you doing lurking in here, cheater, you haven't tumbled a frame in, uh, how many years? :tease: :laugh2:
It's my head, and I'll put as much hair cream on it as I like. :laugh2:

So, nobody has ever experimented using finer media than what is commercially available, I may have to conduct an experiment. If Arodyn can use Tide, I can try beach sand. I need to get those cracks and crevices cleaned up so someday I can be "museum quality". :bb: :)
Paul Wolcott

#87 Rick

Rick

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,843 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:43 PM

Pablo,

Get ready to remove something very much smaller than you put in the tumbler... hahahahahahaah!
Rick Bennardo
"Professional Tinkerer"
scrgeo@comcast.net
R-Geo Products
LIKE my Facebook page for updates, new releases, and sales: Rgeo Slots...
 
Lead! The easy equalizer...

Posted Image

#88 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,980 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 30 April 2008 - 06:51 AM

What are you doing lurking in here, cheater, you haven't tumbled a frame in, uh, how many years?

Actually, I had Geoff run my modified Warmack through the tumbler here at work a couple of months ago... :)

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#89 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:53 AM

I just started to use my tumbler (thanks for the info, Dennis!). This maybe a stupid question. What happens if you want to clean up a race car and you tumble it with the ball bearings still in, other than losing them in the bottom of the container?

I threw in an old steel center Iso for an hour or so and although still pretty bad there is engraving I can read now. Way cool.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#90 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 30 April 2008 - 08:53 AM

Losing them in the bottom of the container? What, they fell out?

I've tumbled frames with BBs twice now and they work fine, just flush and oil immediately upon removal. Assuming of course the media is large enough to not enter the bearings...

My sand idea, of course, would not work too well with BBs. :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#91 Dallas Racer

Dallas Racer

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,449 posts
  • Joined: 03-November 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:09 AM

I don't know if anyone is using walnut shells, but I found this by Googling "tumbler media":

People who reload appreciate clean shiny brass.

Tumbling media lasts a long time, but who really wants to pay $5 a pound? Sure you get a fancy plastic jug... but it goes in the trash eventually.

Here's my cheap solution:

Go to your large chain pet store. Look for the big bags of lizard litter or bird cage litter. They are made of crushed walnut shells, just like tumbler media. Same size. Same stuff. You can get a big 7-pound bag for about $7 a bag.

$1 a pound beats $5 a pound any day!


Phil Smith ® ™


#92 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:19 AM

Pablo, I assumed the media could possibly knock them out of the tube.

I thought it would be OK to do because, like you said, the media is so big. I am going to throw them in later today. Thanks.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#93 Basil

Basil

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 47 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DesPlaines, IL

Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:43 AM

Tony,

I have tumbled chassis with ball bearings. I install an axle with wheels and no tires before tumbling and never have a problem. Just clean and oil ASAP afterwards.
Basil Michael

#94 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:54 AM

Thanks, guys!

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#95 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 30 April 2008 - 10:25 AM

Now that some guys are using Tide, I can see the chemists at Proctor & Gamble working feverishly to concoct all the new variants:

Tide with bleach and fresh scent for top-loading wet tumblers.
Tide with color brighteners and brass protectant, burned motor scent.
Tide with anti-oxidants for side-loading commercial tumblers, wintergreen scent.

Don't forget the little WD40 sheets in the dryer cycle. :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#96 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 949 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:25 AM

Pablo,

Wow! Where can I get some of the stuff with the wintergreen scent? :wub:

Those WD40 dryer sheets sound real good, too! (dc-65x will love them!) :laugh2:

Your "sand" idea just might work, although I'm thinking it might give you a "satin" finish rather than high shine. Only one way to find out...

Two questions:

1) Were you thinking of "sharp" sand (gritty and abrasive) or "playground" sand (where most of the sharp edges are rounded off?

2) Wet or dry? 1/8" x 3/8" cylindrical ceramic pellets is one thing, but I can imagine the tumbler motor might have a tough time turning a drum-load of wet sand... :blink:

EDIT: Hmmm, I see above you already mentioned "beach" sand, which I presume is the equivalent of "playground" sand. This sounds more and more interesting all the time. Even if the beach sand turns out to be much more abrasive than the normal tumbling media (and I'm thinking it will be) you could limit the tumbling time and get the benefits of the finer media without too much erosion, then plunk it into the normal tumbling media to get that high shine.

#97 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:47 AM

Only one way to find out...


Looks like nobody has done it, so I'll try it. Wet beach sand.

I wasn't thinking of LOTS of sand, just enough of it mixed in with the rabbit pellets to clean the crevices. I'll also look at the lizard litter, if it's small enough it may do the trick. If the pellets stick inside a tube, the finer material will go in there and git 'er done.

Just my theory, actually, a Navy SEAL buddy suggested it. :)
Paul Wolcott

#98 Rob968323

Rob968323

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 255 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Union, NJ

Posted 01 May 2008 - 07:41 AM

Guys,

I don't think sand would be a good idea. I've used a vibrating tub with smaller media. Corn media, I think. This stuff gets stuck everwhere!! Don't do it. I was picking out media forever.

Well... now that I'm thinking about it... sand might be small enough to not get stuck. But with water added the sand may clump and get stuck in axle tubes, etc. Keep us posted.
Rob Kurylo

"Capital Idea"

#99 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 01 May 2008 - 08:01 AM

I can see where it would clump and build up in a vibrator, but not in a drum rotating type tumbler like mine. I will try it and I will let you know the results.

Did I ever tell you guys I used to be a rocket scientist before I started sniffing glue? Just kidding, of course. :laugh2:
Paul Wolcott

#100 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,980 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 01 May 2008 - 08:31 AM

Ah, the good old days, Testors model cement in a paper bag. LOL...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip






Electric Dreams Online Shop