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Holy smokes! A tumbling we will go!


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#51 Pablo

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 12:34 PM

Rick,

I'm using Buffalo Arms polish and the piano wire starts to rust up in about three weeks. Granted, I need to do a better job of tinning...

Dennis S. just moved from Colorado, maybe the rust has not "found" him yet at his new location. :laugh2:
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#52 gascarnut

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:04 PM

Granted, neither Denver nor Irvine are the most humid parts of the country, but in a little more than a year of using the tumbler and the soap, I have not seen any corrosion on any of my frames beyond what I would class as mild patina. The steel does dull a bit after a while, but that's about it.

Perhaps the fact that I store all my cars in clear cases helps?
Dennis Samson
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#53 Noose

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:20 PM

Probably. Heck, I've had chassis turn within a day or two sitting in my slot box. I wound up putting little silica bags in each compartment.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#54 tonyp

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:44 PM

East Coast is brutal from May through October. Winter is not bad but in the summer the piano wire rusts up immediately...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#55 Cheater

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:49 PM

Tony,

If you think the East Coast is brutal, come on down to GA for a summer. We'll show you brutal humidity... :laugh2:

There is a reason why I tin the entire surface of any steel parts I use when building chassis...
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#56 tonyp

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 01:55 PM

I've been in Mississippi, I know. LOL. It was humid at Christmas time.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
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#57 TSR

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:47 PM

As far as Dave Fortner goes, he was a racer and chassis builder from Arizona and was a great chassis innovator, as his "steel" chassis made for Dan back in 1969 shows.

Hi Dave,

That steel chassis dates from mid-1972. Dave Fortner began his "amateur" racing career in early 1972 at Speed & Sport after running in Arizona at the Tucson track. Dave was promoted (I have to verify this) to semi-pro in late 1972, and ran pro in 1973.

Dave and a fellow named Neil Kuhns from San Diego made a racing partnership and promoted "iso" frames from late 1972, and were the first in the nation (and the world) to use the huge side dams that are part of any wing car today.

The Aguirre chassis you have are pretty much copies of Lee Gilbert's 1971 frames and were also built in early 1972 by Jim before he shifted to his narrow center sections that are characteristic of his later cars.

Best regards,

#58 dc-65x

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 03:57 PM

I'm using Buffalo Arms polish and the piano wire starts to rust up in about three weeks.

Thanks, everyone, for the input.

I've never had a corrosion problem here unless I touched the bare steel with my "piss fingers" and didn't wipe it clean. It all started with the tumbler so I'm thinking it's the Cabelas and or Buffalo Arms polish. I'm going to use the Tide HE that Steve Okeefe uses and see if the problem stops. I'll report back on the results.

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#59 68Caddy

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 10:17 PM

Mr. Larsen,

How is the progress with Dan DeBella's chassis? :blush:
Love to see some new pics on that winning car and some more background history, please at your convenience. :)

Sorry, it seems to be a topic of two things but that's cool. ;) I guess I got lost in Mr. DeBella's work. :big_boss:

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
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In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

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I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#60 Dave Larsen

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:14 AM

"Pepe",

This reminds me of the aluminum endbell a few years back :sarcastic_hand: like then, you are WRONG again... :sarcastic_hand:

That steel chassis dates from mid-1972. Dave Fortner began his "amateur" racing career in early 1972 at Speed & Sport after running in Arizona at the Tucson track. Dave was promoted (I have to verify this) to semi-pro in late 1972, and ran pro in 1973.

The car was given to me by Mr. DeBella himself. :friends: I feel and I know that he would know the history of his own car better then you!!!

DC-65x, I'm very sorry for this on your thread on tumbling. :sun_bespectacled:

"Pepe", if you want to argue about this chassis and the car once it is restored, go right ahead! But not here. Show some class. Besides, you are just wasting your breath. :whistle3: :whistle3: :whistle3: I'm very sorry to be so blunt with you, but I'm going on what Dan :friends: has told me about the chassis/car and the race in '69. After all, it is his car. :wizard:

Regards,

Dave
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#61 TSR

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 09:25 AM

The car was given to me by Mr. DeBella himself I feel and I know that he would know the history of his own car better then you!!!

Dave,

With all due respect, if that chassis was built in 1969, I am the queen of England and you are the prince of Wales.

To begin with the drop arm and pans used on it weren't even available then. :laugh2:

Please get real and put the question to historical experts, such as Steve Okeefe, Tony P, or Rick Thigpen, since you hardly trust my own ability to figure out when such a chassis was produced.

Regards,

#62 The Bugman

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 04:28 PM

Your majesty, should I bow or curtsey?? :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Again a lot of times I bump heads with PdL, on different topics... but never... THAT'S NEVER... on slot car history.

I've learned soooooooo much just by reading what this guy knows, and I was there when half this stuff came out the first time, too... ;)

Simply amazing knowledge, Mr. P.
Oscar Morales
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#63 TSR

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 08:01 PM

Oscar, that's very kind of you.

Dave knows a lot about history too, and is a Mura enthusiast, collecting everything he can find of the Mura products out there, and it is possible that we lock horns here and there about details.

It is of course not so easy to figure it all out, but the 1968 to 1973 pro-racing era is quite well-documented as far as who was what, and an analysis of the available period mags shows a clear pattern of chassis design and construction, that will be shown step by step to the enthusiast in the book Scott and I are doing. Thanks to Mike Morrissey and John Cukras for their newspaper, as well as Miniature Auto Racing, Car Model, Model Car Science, and the wealth of documents doanted to us by various parties over the years. We are fortunate to have just about every issue published plus great pictures, race reports, etc., and it is a gold mine of information.

Dave and I are enthusiasts first, and disagreements on detail info do not mean that we don't like each other. Dan is probably mistaken about the time at which he used that particular car and after so many years, memory can be a bit fuzzy, no big deal.

Going back to tumbling, Mike Steube was kind enough to loan me his machine for a few days and I used it to clean a few chassis I just finished repairing. The tumbling is great because one can adjust the time and get rid of the corrosion while keeping the nice patina on the old parts.

The first chassis came from the Bruce Paschal collection and was built and identified by John Cukras. It dates from May, 1968, and is typical of that period in time:

Posted Image

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This one is from Mike Steube, basically and literally a couple of weeks later based on the motor-box design, and is the oldest angle-winder we have of Mike's in the collection:

Posted Image

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What is really good about tumbling is that the fine detail such as engraving is not removed as media blasting sometimes will do, and it does not deform the parts.

Posted Image

These two next chassis were assumed to be an early steel job by Morrissey and by then-amateur racer Lee Gilbert, simply from their provenance, but there is little proof of that. Nonetheless they are both from early 1970. The first uses a commercially-produced steel section, that was then Dremeled to split the rails. Please note the pan return springs:

Posted Image

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The next one is entirely hand-cut and at one time its front axle was upgraded from 1/8" to 3/32":

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Posted Image

Tumbling is one of the best tools a chassis builder can have. :)

#64 The Bugman

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:14 PM

The Cukras and Steube chassis were the last I remember, for my time racing slots ended in about '69, though I alway kept model car building, and kept my subscriptions to all the model mags that our guys wrote for, so I was able to continue seeing the lastest "chassis of the month"... :laugh2:

These are sooooooo fantastic to see again. As an old racer I really dig the '60s stuff... Thanks, Mr. P.

I'm also looking forward to seeing Mike Morrissey, as he was the first real pro (from Team Russkit) we kids met at American Raceway in Hawthorne in the '60s.
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#65 TSR

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 09:19 AM

Hopefully, and thanks to John Cukras's persuasion efforts, he might show up Sunday for the Legends race.

In any case, his former team mate Fred "Kenny" Larimer will be there. :)

#66 The Bugman

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 10:17 PM

I was at John's this week... lookin' good for Morrissey to show Sunday. I've been trying to get Mike Kondor (remember him?) to show, too... hmmmm, maybe.
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#67 endbelldrive

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 12:59 AM

I remember a Mike Kondor podium finish with a car that had a pretty cool Mike Morrissey chassis. :heat:

Posted Image
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#68 TSR

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:51 PM

Here are some Terry Schmid frames that will go through the process... maybe. In fact, they might be left the way they are because when they are that clean, they should be kept original as much as possible.

They were donated to the museum by Mill Conroy, who was a good friend of Terry's and won the last pro race at J&J Raceway in 1969 using a Schmid frame.

These date from mid-1968 and add to the puzzle... The pictures were hastily taken, but better ones will be shown once back from my Yurro trip next week.

Posted Image

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:)

#69 tonyp

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 11:45 AM

Interesting that the older car has the plate in front of the motor and the newer car doesn't.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#70 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 01:55 PM

Interesting indeed!

The "older" chassis looks to be May or June 1968, while the "newer" chassis (in the iteration we are seeing anyway), dates from at least August, more probably September or maybe even October; it has a plumber hinge...

#71 tonyp

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 02:45 PM

Steve,

Just for reference and to put it all into perspective, what were the dates of the first West Coast sidewinder race and do you know the date of the Nutley Car Model race, which was the first "real" East Coast sidewinder race.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#72 dc-65x

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 06:59 PM

what was the dates of the first West Coast sidewinder race

Hi Tony,

April 20, 1968. I'm looking up the Nutley date...

Rick Thigpen
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The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#73 dc-65x

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 07:01 PM

... do you know the date of the Nutley Car Model race, which was the first "real" East Coast sidewinder race.

Tony,

There was the Third New York Car Model race at Nutley on May 25, 1968. Is that the one?

Rick Thigpen
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There's much more to come...


#74 68Caddy

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 01:05 AM

Ok guys,

This is getting comical. Where is this thread going? :blink:

So what's up with Dan DeBella's car? Are you saying that it's not a car from the timeframe as it's told by Vitter?

I have a feeling it's all political, my two cents. :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.

#75 68Caddy

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 01:12 AM

TSR,

BTW I think you would be quite cute as the queen of England, sorry no offense :laugh2: :laugh2:

Respect (WEI),
Nesta aka 68CaddyPosted Image
- Gabriel
Nesta Szabo

In this bright future you can't forget your past.
BMW (Bob Marley and the Wailers)

United we stand and divided we fall, the Legends are complete.
I'm racing the best here at BP but Father time is much better then all of us united.
Not a snob in this hobby, after all it will be gone, if we keep on going like we do, and I have nothing to prove so I keep on posting because I have nothing to gain.
It's our duty to remember the past so we can have a future.

Pistol Pete you will always be in my memory.





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