Jump to content




Photo

Power supply for club track


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:16 AM

Need some advice.

I have a fast four-lane club track with a 70' length with two power taps. I'm running 1/24 cars with 16D and Super 16D motors on the track now. The power supply that I'm using now is a Pyramid PS26KX 22 amp /15 volt.

When we are using all four lanes and I have the power turned up, one can feel the power surges on the cars; especially when we run the super 16D motors.

I would like to upgrade my power supply but not sure on how much power I should use on the motors that I'm running now.
Dose anybody have a suggestion on a brand I should look into and an suggestionson on what type of power range I should be considering? Does someone makes a power supply that can adjust its power fast enough so when a car comes off the track one does not get a power surge?

Thanks you,

Dave,
-Slot's-
Delta Raceway
David Heistand




#2 MG Brown

MG Brown

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,583 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Land of Lincoln, where governors make the license plates.

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:30 AM

I heard of a new company that is offering an aftermarket 0-20 volt 30 amp power supply that has a very nice price point.

I plan to get at least one and when I have it in my grubby hands in a couple weeks I will publish a review with information on how to purchase.

I want to assure that it is good quality and suitable for slot car racing before I say more - hope you understand.

As far as general information, I feel its nice to have variable voltage, I don't know of a reliable formula to calculate amps needed but unless you are running some wild motors, 20-30 amps should be plenty.

I would try more power taps or larger gauge wire before trying another power supply. Also check to see if there are places in relays and such that might be causing power loss.

"I'm just here for the entertainment." George Carlin


#3 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:14 AM

What gauge wires should be used between the track and the controllers?


David Heistand

#4 MG Brown

MG Brown

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,583 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Land of Lincoln, where governors make the license plates.

Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:26 AM

Some people say welding wire is just right - but I will check what Gary Gerding uses and post later today.

"I'm just here for the entertainment." George Carlin


#5 slotcarone

slotcarone

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,272 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutchess County, NY

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:15 PM

:D Dave if you get rid of the power supply and use a car or truck battery you will eliminate the power surges. This was one of the big changes/improvements back in the '60s.

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#6 Jeff Buyer

Jeff Buyer

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Joined: 20-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mooresville, NC

Posted 22 October 2011 - 01:38 PM

At 15 volts your 16D motors should draw up to about 6 amps each. With four cars, that's 24 amps. If you drop the voltage down a little you would be below the amp rating for your power supply. The Pyramid power supply you have is a good model; why not add a second on and use one power supply for two lanes? Otherwise, you would need at least a 30 amp power supply.

#7 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 22 October 2011 - 03:30 PM

Great replies, I thought I might be knocking at the door of full potential of my power supply. That's not a bad suggestion about using two of the same units that I have now. I was thinking about just buying a more powerful power supply and then use the unit I have now to break in motors and for other things.

I also like the old school of using batteries but I'm not sure how one would set that up.

Thank you, gentlemen.
David Heistand

#8 Big Mike

Big Mike

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 313 posts
  • Joined: 21-May 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MI

Posted 22 October 2011 - 04:57 PM

Dave,

Get with the guys from BP. I'm pretty sure Randy has a clue and could probably show you how it was done at BP or maybe Jim S. could talk you through adding batteries. It's actually quite simple and you could keep your current power supply.

I would recommend Optima or if you can afford them Oddessey gel batteries, being that it's indoors. Those two manufacturers make the best batteries for what we do.
Mike Chmielewski
M & T Raceway a division of Team Fart
If I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it!
Where is my glue bottle and wings!!!!!
New address call if you would like to come out
(517) 936-8503

#9 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 22 October 2011 - 05:24 PM

Thanks for the info, Mike.
David Heistand

#10 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 23 October 2011 - 05:49 PM

Has any body used one of these Mastech Power Supply HY3030EX 30V 30A Over Voltage Over Current Protection before?

Thanks -


Posted Image
David Heistand

#11 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 23 October 2011 - 06:03 PM

Or would this DC power supply be a better option? Lower volts (15v) but higher amps (50a).

Mastech Power Supply HY1550EX 15V 50A Over Voltage Over Current Protection


d1a.jpg

d2a.jpg

Product Information

Mastech HY1550EX is a high current regulated DC power supply with built-in over-voltage and over-current protection, ideal for battery charging, DC motors, anodizing and plating applications. HY1550EX has the maximum DC power of 750W. This high quality regulated power supply can be continuously adjustable at 0-15V DC and 0-50A. The unit comes with 2 LED displays, providing accurate and clearly visible readout for the voltage and current value. This unit has toggle switch at the back that allows you to operate it in 110V AC or 220V AC. Retails over $500. Please email us with any questions!

Features & Specifications:

  • Two level of control for both current and voltage outputs: coarse and fine for ease of use
  • Outputs: 0-15 V and 0-50 A
  • Protection: over-voltage and over-current protection
  • Input voltage: 110V AC and 220V AC switchable
  • Voltage Stabilization: <=0.2%
  • Current Stabilization: <=0.5%
  • Load Regulation: <=0.3%
  • Ripple noise: CV <= 1%
  • LCD reading accuracy: +/-1% +/-1 digit
  • Environment: 0-40C, relative humidity < 90%
  • Size: 12" x 10" x 6"
  • Weight: 12 lbs
  • Warranty: 1 year

Price: $289.95
Product Code: HY1550EX In Stock: 9
David Heistand

#12 slotbaker

slotbaker

    Dan Gurney Fan

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,282 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia.

Posted 23 October 2011 - 06:25 PM

We use one of these (MP3090) on our 6 lane track, where we run up to S16Ds without any problems.
Posted Image
Specifications:
- Variable output voltage: 3V DC to 15VDC
- Fixed voltage mode: 13.8V DC
- Max. output current 40 Amps (continuous)
- Ripple & noise: 10m Vrms
- Load regulation: 230mV @ 0 - 100% load.
- Measures 220(W) x 110(H) x 300(L)mm.
- Incredibly light, weighing only 3.5Kgs.
- Switchmode

I'm sure there would be a unit of similar spec to this in your neck of the woods.
:unsure:

Steve King


#13 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:59 PM

That looks like a nice DC power supply unit. I cound not find one in the US for sale.

Thanks,

Dave
David Heistand

#14 Blake Sabo

Blake Sabo

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Joined: 19-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Du Quoin, IL

Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:08 PM

Hey Dave,

For my 1/24 four-lane track and HO six-lane track I use Professor Motor power supply. I haven't had any problems with them at all. Had one for about two years now without a hitch.

But the fastest cars we run are Falcons on the 1/24 track though. Haven't tried S16Ds yet.

Here's a LINK.

Blake
Speed N Motion
"Film Photography in the Modern Day"
www.speednmotion.com

#15 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:46 PM

Hi Blake,

My power supply has more amps than the one you have pointed out. I need at least 30+ amps at 15 volts just to run the 16D motors to where one won't feel any surges. When I run the super 16Ds I need more than 30 amps at 15 volts. We can really run up the power on my track.

Hope you received my PM message, OK?

Thanks
David Heistand

#16 Ted Hutchinson

Ted Hutchinson

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 21-June 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Edmonton

Posted 28 October 2011 - 05:11 PM

Hi:

I am using the Mastech supply you are showing. Adjustable 0 to 15.5 volts max. ) to 50 amps. I have a 110 foot 4 lane Ogilvie Grandstand Track. I use 4 supplies; one for each lane. We run anything from Jk cars to Spring steel F1 cars to GT12 cars to Box stock 12 cars. Lap times for Falcon 7 motored cars are 4.3 seconds per lap at 9.5 volts. Box stock cars can run at 3.1 seconds per lap at 9.5 volts. These are really good supplies. I have had my supplies for a little over 1 year. Had one supply that failed. It was replaced on warranty.

Ted Hutchinson
Edmonton, AB, Canada

#17 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:07 PM

Hi Ted,

Did I read your reply right? You are running four of these 15 volt's / 50 amp power supply systems on your four lane track, man! You got it going on there. That's a lot of power; no power surges on your track - LOL. That's cool.
But you do like the Mastech power supplier?, that's good to know.

Thank you -


David Heistand

#18 Torana

Torana
  • Guest
  • Joined: --

Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:40 AM

Arrrr. The bad old power surge problems. If your wiring is up to standard, the power supply will be your problem. I'm a bit unsure why we get power surges, but your power supply will be at it's limit at 15 volts. I think the main problem the power supply can not react quickly enough when a car comes off (spikes). As my track only started out small I got a 25 amp (max), but when it got made bigger the power supply was not up to it. I got a extra supply for each line. (15amp max-0-20v) for $179 (nz). my track is 3 lanes so it was $537, which is about $100 more than one 40amp supply. best thing I ever did.
BTW
we run our track at 12v.
T-rev

#19 Ramcatlarry

Ramcatlarry

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,840 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Charles, IL 60174

Posted 29 October 2011 - 03:51 PM

Generally the Pyramid you have is the standard for our Great Lakes Slot Car Club. We have close to a dozen tracks running in the Chicago Metro area....for homeset plastic cars without magnets. Telephone wire is too small for power taps, and 18 ga lamp cord is fine for these sealed FK and other mini sealed motors. Five amps per lane is all you need for homeset and 31 ga armatures.

Once you start using the commercial motors, and especially the 28 ga S16D armatures, you need to ramp up the power to at least 10 amps per lane and other commercial track standards of at least 16 ga wire for taps. Most first class commercial tracks are wired with 12 ga wire for all runs with taps at each load point where you punch the throttle.

Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... (for now)
race directing around Chicago-land

USRA 2017 member #404
USSCA  member

Host 2006 ISRA/USA
Great Lakes Slot Car Club member
60+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America


#20 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 29 October 2011 - 08:01 PM

Generally the Pyramid you have is the standard for our Great Lakes Slot Car Club. We have close to a dozen tracks running in the Chicago Metro area....for homeset plastic cars without magnets. Telephone wire is too small for power taps, and 18 ga lamp cord is fine for these sealed FK and other mini sealed motors. Five amps per lane is all you need for homeset and 31 ga armatures.

Once you start using the commercial motors, and especially the 28 ga S16D armatures, you need to ramp up the power to at least 10 amps per lane and other commercial track standards of at least 16 ga wire for taps. Most first class commercial tracks are wired with 12 ga wire for all runs with taps at each load point where you punch the throttle.



I have 14 ga wires running through out my track. I have two power taps. When I'm running only 10 volts there's no problem until I turn up to 12 volts, then you can tell the power differents when you are running more than two cars. How many volts and amps do the commercial track usually run?


David Heistand

#21 Smoke

Smoke

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morris, IL

Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:41 AM

Hey Dave I am running the 50 amp 15 volt mastech. It is powering a 85 ft. Gerding road course. The power supply is very nice.
Scott Smolkovich

#22 Antiochdave

Antiochdave

    Antiochdave

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Antioch, CA

Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:56 AM

How many lanes do you have on your track? I'm very tempted pick one up.
David Heistand

#23 Bartx7001

Bartx7001

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 13 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL

Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:58 AM

The best power supply for the money that I have found is the proteck 40 amp supply designed for rc car racing.
It is only $149. ProTek 40 My brother has one and it works great.
Jason Burnside

#24 Smoke

Smoke

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morris, IL

Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:13 PM

I am powering 4 lanes.
Scott Smolkovich

#25 MrBill

MrBill

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Subscriber
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oconomowoc, WI

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:17 PM

Hi all,

I am also looking to upgrade my power supply. I have an old Rivergate (Bulldog?) 30 amp supply. The knob that allows one to adjust voltage up and down is broken. The meter on the supply show 13.6 vDc output, but when a meter is put on the track it is more like 15 v Dc. My controllers are getting hot, smoking and even melting/breaking. Too much voltage? Anyone have a fix?

I have been looking at new power supplies. Bulldog doesn't allow voltage adjustment - I have kids 5 yrs old running cars so I would like to adjust power down. I can't find the "Mastech HY1550EX" for sale only a 20 amp model.

EBay has:

TekPower TP50SW 50 Amp 13.8V Analog DC Power Supply with Cigarette Plug

and Amazon has:

 

OJE Regulated 50 Amp Compact Power Supply 13.8Vdc (9-15V Adj) w/ Volt - Amp Meter!

 

Looks like the same unit for a bit more $$.

 

I did find :

 

Pyramid PS52KX 50-Ampere Power Supply with Built-In Cool Fan

at Amazon for even more $$

 

The highest amps I could find:

 

DELTA DPS60M 60 Amp AC/DC Switching Power Supply w/ Volt AMP Meter

 

 

Any help would be great

 

Bill


Bill Goes

#26 Mattb

Mattb

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,037 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:29 PM

I've been using one of these for  a few years with no problems.   4 lanes, but running small chinese motors, not  anything that draws a lot of amps.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...JwAAOSwcwhVNBwG


Matt Bishop

Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#27 MrBill

MrBill

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Subscriber
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oconomowoc, WI

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:36 PM

Sorry - I'm guessing 1st question will be what ya running?

6 lanes - about 75 ft. figure 8 track. Running Womp Womps to Parma 16s.

 

Bill


Bill Goes

#28 MrBill

MrBill

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Subscriber
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oconomowoc, WI

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:42 PM

Thanks Matt.

Love the price! And it adjusts voltage down - bonus.


Bill Goes

#29 Mattb

Mattb

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,037 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 18 July 2017 - 09:16 PM

I got mine for $40 something and got s econd one just in case or if I wanted to use two of them.


Matt Bishop

Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#30 Steve Ogilvie

Steve Ogilvie

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 17-November 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kincardine, Ontario, Canada

Posted 18 July 2017 - 09:28 PM

If you want to eliminate surging with a transformer based  power supply then just add a 12 volt car battery in parallel with your power supply. The only problem with a setup like this is when you change lanes the voltage will rise a bit and for the first 10 seconds or so everyone will get a bit more power. The best power supplies to use are high frequency transistor switching power supplies, like a Rivergate or a bulldog 75 amp unit. These units only weigh about 7 lbs or so and the lack of a large AC transformer prevents surging. I think Dave Hitt still sells these but have not talked to him in a while.

      As far as wire size goes, Ohms law can not be broken so figure out your maximum average current draw per lane , double it and that is the current draw you want to use to calculate your wire size for each lane. If that comes out to 20 amps, use 12 AWG. 30 amps, 10 AWG. You do not need huge wire. Space out your positive and negative taps evenly around the track, do not put them right beside each other. If you want to regulate the power of each lane, go to the technical section and I have put a diagram and parts list in a thread there so anyone can build one themselves.


  • Ramcatlarry likes this

#31 Ramcatlarry

Ramcatlarry

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,840 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Charles, IL 60174

Posted 18 July 2017 - 10:31 PM

MrBill    - I agree with your hunch that the Bulldog is going bad.  These rather reliable units should never be that far off voltage unless something is wrong.  We did find a trick to adjust voltage on them.  At one end of the unit is a small trim pot.  That can go bad and might be the problem.  It is also a part that can be bypassed or replaced to alter voltage if you do it right.  You need to install a volt meter in line and an external potentiometer.  Most also have a jumper plug that can alter the voltage from 13.2 up to 14-4 with the pot.  They can also be messed with to get the 16.0 volts for a proper drag trip voltage.

 

ALWAYS use stranded wire for DC hook-ups.


Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... (for now)
race directing around Chicago-land

USRA 2017 member #404
USSCA  member

Host 2006 ISRA/USA
Great Lakes Slot Car Club member
60+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America






Electric Dreams Online Shop