211 replies to this topic

[Jairus]

Excellent Road Course report Todd.  I am hoping to get my Olds on the Drag track next week for a similar report and start my modifications.  
Keep good records of your mods and the overall improvement and I shall do the same!
This is fun!
 

[TuscoTodd]

Jairus - definitely looking forward to hearing how the 442 does both "stock" and then as you go through the mods!  The mods to eventually go 4 wheel drive should make a car that not only pulls like a freight train, but probably has impressive braking capability as well!  (might make for a real fun car on a tight twisty course in addition to the drag strip!)  Can hardly wait for some updates!

 

 

On my end, I'll be making a couple tweaks to the guide flag set up on the Galaxy before taking it back up to Marks for more handling/tire tests.  I want to see if I can't get more angular range out of the guide for drifting out of the corners.  If I can't get the range I am looking for by further modifying the stock unit or the chassis more, I will look at changing over to a Parma guide as an alternative. 

For the tire tests, I did pick up a couple more types of tires to try out, so I may look at making the jump to 1/8" axles so that I can evaluate all the tires on a level playing field.  But if I don't get that done before I go up this week, I do have a set of the factory tires now glued and trued on stock rims and also some urethane tires out of Canada in a couple width/height/firmnesses that fit the factory rims, to give a whirl as well. 

 

In addition to more Galaxy testing, I hope to be bringing my latest build to Mark's for a shake down run this week as well! 

I caved and bought another AMT kit, to test the effects of having a notably short wheel base / shorter trunk on handling, as well as having an excuse to put together a new model! This latest kit is the '06 Concept Camero kit.  (needless to say - it is on the complete opposite end of the scale from the galaxy as far as wheel base, length behind the rear axle and overall height) 

I am employing the same modifications to this kit as those made to the Galaxy, with the exception of the axles - since I know I don't want to use the splined ones that came with this kit, this one is getting upgraded to 1/8" axles and the associated bronze axle bushing right out of the gate.  Other than that - I don't intend to make any other notable changes in the set up / assembly of the chassis, so it should be a decent one-to-one comparison in regard to the impact of the shorter wheel base/trunk to the handling characterics.

 

The body for this kit is also getting a full paint job as I didn't want to leave this one in the as molded "white".  (just looked too plain).  A quick trip to the auto store revealed a nice solution though!  The body is now drying with heavy "metal flake" paint by Duplicolor called Metal Specks - Retro Red (http://www.duplicolo...ts/metalSpecks/ )  Once I have the chassis under it, I will post a couple pictures - but have to say it definitely gives it a nice "custom" look under the lights! 

[TuscoTodd]

Here is the Camero getting ready for it's maiden voyage to the track. 

There are a couple things to take care of yet (the guide flag is set too deep yet) - but if all goes well, I will be making a trip up to the track tomorrow to see how she does. 

 

For reference, here are some of the differences in finished dimensions:

 

Galaxy Wheel base:  4.7"  (119.4mm)

Camero wheel base:  4.4"  (111.7mm)

 

Galaxy distance from rear axle to rear of car:  2.3" (58.4mm)

Camero distance from rear axle to rear of car:  1.6" (40.6mm)

 

Galaxy weight:  174.6g

Camero weight:  158.4g

 

I set the Camero up with the same Groove Master motor, 9-31 gearing, and factory tires as the Galaxy.  Changes over the Galaxy include:

- NOT modifying the front of the frame (material removal) like the Galaxy for flag movement, but rather changed to a Parma Guide spaced down off the frame.  This does allow for more angular range than the Galaxy currently has, which should help handling out of the corners

- bronze bushings for use with 1/8" axles were soldered in front and rear

- 1/8" axles installed with vintage Dynamic set screw wheels (same approximate width / diameter as the factory aluminum units supplied in the later kits)

 

Based on the above, I expect this model to be able to "best" the Galaxy's 10.79 on the road course, using the same factory tires - but the proof will be on the track. 

 

Here are some photos of the assembled car - the pictures don't really due the heavy metal flake paint justice (need to take a shot out in natural light with no flash) - but it at least gives you an idea.

Enjoy!

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[TuscoTodd]

Track report update: 

The short story - changes to glued/trued factory tires and urethane tires on the Galaxy improved lap times - the newly built, lighter weight Camero kit doesn't out run the Galaxy - yet...

 

And now for those interested - here is the long story...

Both the Camero and Galaxy spent time on the road course at Mark's in Canton last night before the evening's 1/32 Touring Car races - here are the observations:

 

Galaxy -

The track was either a bit slicker, or I was a little off last night as the best lap I could turn with the Galaxy with the same tire / set-up configuration as last week, was a 10.84 running in the same lane (10.79 best last week).  To minimize the number of variables being changed, last night's Galaxy runs were focused solely on performance changes based on tire changes.

- Glued and trued (with 320 grit sand paper) factory tires - resulted in being able to push a little harder through the corners - but traction was still at a premium if pushed too hard, resulting in drifting/fish tailing off the corners.  Best time was an improvement over the non-glued and trued tires though at 10.71, with smoother / more predictable handling being noted.

- Aftermarket "XPG" Extreme Soft Compount Urethane tires from eBay (user paulgg132) - These cast tires looked nice installed on the car from a "detail" standpoint on the tread and outter face (the rear of the tire had the typical deformites associated with tires made in this manner)  I installed these "as received" on a set of the factory aluminum wheels - but did not glue or true them.  This version has a cross hatch tread pattern cast in them that I did not want to potentially remove with truing - plus I was curious to see how they would do "as received".   I only installed these tires on the rear of the car as they have a slightly larger installed OD than the factory tires and I did not want to change the guide flag engtagement as a second potential variable impacting lap times.  That being said, I was pleased with just how well these tires stuck - even with the molded in tread pattern!  Similar to the foam tires tried last week, the car no longer spun on take off or drifted out of the corner (unless done delibrately).  Best lap time was a 10.33 with these. 

I had intended to try out the "slick" version of these I purchased from the same seller - but ran out of time prior to the scheduled race held on that track.

 

Camero -

The handling characteristics of the Camero were NOTABLY different than that of the Galaxy.  The factory tires still showed their limits with drifting, fishtailing and doughnuts still the "reward" for pushing too hard...

- Guide flag modification - this is one area that still needs work as I am not happy with the results of the current set up.  The older kit did not provide the same "L" shaped guide as supplied in the newer kits, I decided to utilized a standard flat top Parma Guide as an alternate - thinking it's one piece design would be stronger/more stable thant the supplied two-piece unit.  I utilized a set of washers on the guide to allow it to be installed directly where the original guide would go.  Time at the track brought to light a couple issues with doing this.  1) The guide sits too low, keeping the factory tires approximately .100" up off the track (I failed to check for that before going to the track)  2) there are NO angular limits - so you can literally do a 360 / "doughnut" while under power when you get too agressive out of a corner!  While having that capability was "fun" - it does have the issue of wrapping the lead wires around the guide when you do this (not a good thing!).  I will be looking at a couple options to resolve this for the next outing as I believe elevating the front tires off the track was promoting tipping/roll over type deslotting when trying to run hard, verses drifting/sliding.

- Axle / wheel upgrade - the change to the 1/8" axles and wheels presented no issues, and the soldered in bronze axle bushings may also be offering an advantage in lower rotating friction over that of the plastic bushings on the Galaxy (the front wheels spin longer/easier as an example)

- Handling / Weight - While I think the guide flag depth setting was the main issue with the Camero's tendancy to roll verses drift, I did try adding some weight to the front end directly behind the guide flag.  I a used a 3/16 oz tungsten flat bar type weight (Pinecar brand) in an effort to shift the center of gravity lower/further forward, hoping it would help minimize the potential to tip/roll (I didn't have the tools / parts at the track to address the guide flag depth issue)  While the weight addition didn't cure the all of the issues, it did provide a positive impact, so I will be interested to see how that might come into play once I have the guide flag issue resolved. 

 

Even with the current guide flag / handling issues, this kit was still a lot of fun to drive!  I look forward to making "adjustments" to the set-up to correct the guide flag issue and getting it back to the track.  I am going to hold off on making any other upgrades (I have an H&R Lightening 40,000rpm motor with a 9 tooth pinion and a 35 tooth crown gear I am ITCHING to try) - as I still want to get as close to an "apples to apples" comparison between the handling / performance of the Galaxy and Camero in "stock" configuration, before diverging too far.

 

Enjoy! 

 

[Champion 507]

Wow, Todd, most impressive road test reports and attention to detail. Most excellent!

[TuscoTodd]

OK - it has been a while since I updated this post but finally have something new to add! 

I am still toying with the handling of the Camaro but decided in the mean time to put together my '66 Olds 442 kit! 

Using what I have learned from the other two builds, I decided to throw some notable modifications into this build.  

Here is the general details on the build...

Body:

The body itself I basically left alone other than releaving the bottom of the molded in inner front fenders to allow the body to sit lower on the chassis.  I carried over the same "industrial strength" velcro for mounting the body that I used on the other two builds as it has proven out to be a very convenient and robust system that offers a little "give" so as wrecks don't result in "cracks" in the body. 

The body is painted with Duplicolor "Buckskin Metallic" base with two coats of Duplicolor "Metal Effex" metallic clear coat.

 

Chassis:

I modified the front guide flag mounting point twice.  Initially, I made the same modification as I had for the Galaxy build to allow for more rotation.  However, after looking at the choice of front wheels/tires and associated front end chassis height, I decided to modify the mount location both lower and further forward than that of the factory (that way I could make the mount more rigid and avoid using spacers to push the guide down to the track)  To get the placement I desired, I mounted a piece of 1/16" x 1/2" brass across the width of the chassis followed by a Slick 7 spring steel guide tounge (Part # S7-25) soldered to that.  Those pieces tied with use of a standard Parma guide flag and pick-up braids put the front tires "just" touching the track, which should allow for maximum front end stability.

 

For the back half of the chassis - I decided to get a bit more radical.  I opened up the motor opening to allow a Parma 501 Deathstar motor to sit down in the spot once reserved for the "groove master" motor.  With milling out the opening to accomodate for the larger diameter 16d motor, I made it a point to both solder the motor to the verticle motor mount plate and also to form up a hoop to go from the the motor mount plate to the uprights for the rear bushings.  This resulted in a notably rigid assembly.  The hoop is made from 1/16" brass rod that I simply formed around a small piece of pipe and then contoured to match the radius of the top of the rear bushing uprights. 

 

Drive line:

As noted, the motor has been upgraded to a Parma Deathstar 501 motor (this is the base, unbalanced motor) and is mated to a 9 tooth pinion gear and currently a 31 tooth spur gear. (I may need to up the ratio to help braking though as I have a feeling I am going to have some notable straight line speed with that tall of a ratio!)  Axles are 2.75" wide 1/8" diameter threaded units riding in soldered in bushings.  Wheels and their associated inserts are some vintage pieces I picked up with the front wearing fairly hard /narrow 60's vintage rubber and the rear being treated to some type of soft rubber/urethane tire that I had on hand from (?), that after rough truing, feel pretty sticky and should work well with the painted surface of the road course up at the commercial track.

 

 

Maiden voyage to the track is currently planned for Wednesday - so hopefully I will have some details to share later this week as to how it performed. 

 

Here are a couple shots after assembly...

Enjoy!

 

[racie35]

I'm looking forward to picking up one of these( probably the Pontiac) and hopefully find a track close enough to try it. I think its neat these older hard bodies are being offered again

[TuscoTodd]

Hopefully, you find them as enjoyable to build and drive as I have! 

[TuscoTodd]

442 performance report - the short summary is the modifications all proved positive, and I am already looking forward to tweeks for next week's trip to the track!

 

For those that are interested in more detail - here is the low down.

 

Chassis modifications:

- the rear brace between the motor and rear axle uprights did a nice job of stiffening the chassis and is something that I am glad I did with the increased power offered by the Parma 16D motor

- Guide flag lowering/reposition forward - handling was very smooth and predictable with this modification.  Engagement with the slot was spot on with the front tires just barely supporting the front end.  This repositioning of the guide forward did not result in the guide protruding out from the front of the car on this model, but "may" on bodies with a shorter area in front of the tires - like the '66 Nova kit. 

 

Handling / lap times:

- as noted above, handling was VERY smooth and predictable with the car being set up as noted.  Unfortunately, while they look great on the car - the '60's vintage  Strombecker rubber I had on the back was having a tough time getting a lot of bite on the epoxy painted surface.  All deslotting issues where spin out related verses tip related.  It was extremely predictable and easy to control though and after a little time on the track, I could vary from very little slip through the corners to full on controlled drifts through the corners.  It made for a lot of fun to drive - but not the quickest around the track.  Best lap times were associated with minimal drifting and smooth application of power out of the corners as the 16D didn't have much issue with fish tailing and spinning the tires half way down the long straight if you power drifted out of the corner and just hammered the throttle.  (again - a lot of fun - but not too quick).  Best lap time was a 10.88 with keeping in the 10.9x on average.  For a control, I did run the Galaxy for comparison and was able to run a best of 10.73 with averages being in the 10.8x range. 

 

Rear tire traction is the next area of focus.  I have a number of different options that I plan to explore here as I have a variety of vintage tire / wheel combos I can try on the back (I assembled this kit using threaded axles) - in addition to that I do have thread on wheels that will accept both the tires supplied in the kit and the "extra soft" urethane tires that I wrote about in the review of the Camaro above.  The increased traction these tires will offer may necessitate a revision in the rear gearing to helping decell the car on braking but even with steeper gearing the added traction out of the hole should make the car MUCH quicker around the track. 

[racie35]

Jarius? Is your olds up and running yet? Finished pics?

[Jairus]

Bruce,

Nope, not yet.
Well... the chassis runs (poorly) and the body is painted.

But I've had no time to get the decals on it and finish the interior.

 

I stay plenty busy tho... painted four slot car bodies yesterday and built a jaildoor chassis Tuesday.  All for customers, and now I have to go to work.

 

J

[racie35]

I'm trying to get a jig for building chassis' myself.....one thing I noticed on these amt cars---the galaxie is probably a promo mold....hood molded in closed...is the plastic different?

[racie35]

Jarius? Where do you get motor mounts approx 1 1/4" wide for building from scratch with 36 d motors?

[Jairus]

The plastic kit was what is known as a "Curbside" kit. That would be an un-assembled kit with no engine details and little or no underside details.
Yes, the hood was molded shut on the "Craftsman" kits and many times (tho not always) these were also sold assembled and painted as Promotional models.

As for the motor mounts.  How many do you need?  I have one or two.
The are not in production far as I know, so the guys here on Slotblog.net are your best bet.

[racie35]

I need 2....I'll message you my number

[racie35]

I'm gonna try and hunt down an early Tornado promo body to put on one of these....nice and fat and low!

[TuscoTodd]

Racie35 - a Toronado would definitely make a cool ride!  I planned on using one of the chassis kits to mount a spare '66 GTO model body I have - but hadn't thought about the possibility of using a Promo model!  Using one of those should make for a unique/neat option!  Look forward to seeing your finished project!

[racie35]

We have tons of older models here but I don't have the tornado in promo---but I do have an early unbuilt model kit(amt)... My olds will be here tommorow . gotta try and keep this thing hard body...I think its a cool line of cars

[Samiam]

AMT would be better off just offering the bodies.

We can then mount them to whatever we got in the box.

 

Or they can join forces w/JK and just use their new 4.5" chassis.

[TuscoTodd]

I did some digging through my threaded wheels this weekend and have three "new" sets of foams to try out (they are all "new" - but only the "orange" set is what I would consider "soft") along with a set of two different sets of sponge rubber, one set of standard rubber and then mounted up a set of the new production urethane tires which ought to stick pretty well based on what I saw with the Galaxy tests.  Worst case, I switch it over to non-threaded axles and that opens up allllll sorts of options in foam, fish, silicone, urethane - where rear traction will not be an issue - but roll over due to high speed corning may be! 

Should be an entertaining Wednesday at the track! 

[racie35]

Mine came today..gonna change out a few parts and get busy. The motor adapter on both our kits needs to be shaved on the bottom up close to the motor plate..or it'll hold the motor at an angle. Shortening the shaft with a dremel and ditching the adapter would work too but only one screw and then a dab of solder on the motor case. Alum ring gear is also 3.2mm(1/8) not 3mm like the axle..so yeah' a few things to try

[TuscoTodd]

That is interesting about the gear - I have just been switching mine out with Parma units as I "assumed" that they were set up for the 3mm axles - verses the 1/8" axles I have been upgrading to.  I still like the Parma units over the Aluminum unit as I don't think it will offer as great of longevity - but I may have to try using that on the '66 Nova kit that I plan to put together next (with upgraded wheels/tires/etc) - appreciate the observation!

 

Look forward to seeing how your kits come together - especially if you decide to go with an alternate body on one of them! 

[racie35]

My brother is using a different body....I may just use this olds for now....I'll say this about these...ground clearance is no problem...wish they were made lower

[racie35]

To deal with the gear and axle problem,I'm just gonna drill the rear wheels to 1/8 and use a parma gear and axle. That super 16d is looking like it belongs too.

[TuscoTodd]

LOL!

Yes, ground clearance is DEFINITELY not an issue! 

I imagine it is better when using the chassis with the 1/32 kits since I they have slightly smaller tire / wheel assemblies supplied with them (approx .100" smaller), but even with those, ground clearance is still MORE than generous.