34 replies to this topic

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I had intended to poll the racers who attended last year, and those planning on coming this year, about any possible format changes. After giving it some thought, and given the fact I don't believe in a fast qualifying time giving you an A Main spot, I realized there was only one other possible format.

At the R4/4 I moved the fourteen racers with the most total laps into two "Semi" Mains and filled the last two spots with "wildcards". The "wildcards" were the two drivers who won their respective prelim Mains BUT didn't make the Semis by laps. After the two Semis were complete I moved the top four from each into the "A" main. My intention was to give a second chance to two racers who didn't have a great qualifying run or prelim Main result. Obviously I was a hero to those two guys and a "goat" to numbers 15 and 16 in laps. Enough racers expressed a problem with the "wildcard" that this year it is gone. Not that I don't value your opinions but, given only one other option, there wasn't really anything about the format to discuss.

Please understand that the purpose of this post is to help avoid confusion and misunderstandings on race day. Our goal if to have a great race that is fair and fun for everyone. Rules are sometimes distasteful but it is the only way to ensure a level playing field for all. I would love to have a more relaxed schedule but with the number of drivers expected and, being sympathetic to those that have long drives home, we need a tight schedule to finish at a decent time.

As always we are all looking forward to seeing all of you again and to some great competition. If there is anything you need please do not hesitate to call or PM me.

See you soon,

Mike McM


Registration: Registration is when you will pay your entry fees and receive your tech sheet. PLEASE FILL OUT THE SHEET COMPLETELY. The number one question I get after the race and from new racers is, "What are the fast guys using". This is your chance to help the new guys. You will be given an entry number and group number which you will keep through the entire event. We use your entry number to ID your car when we are setting up qualifying and the Mains. It is also written on your car. The group number shows which practice and tech group you should be in. You will also receive a colored wrist band that shows that you are registered and which group you are in. Colors will change daily. The wrist band is also your lunch ticket. It will be removed when you get your food.

PLEASE REMEMBER - NO REGISTRATION - NO WRIST BAND - NO PRACTICE ! And please ONLY practice during your group number period.

Entry fees: GT Coupe FK - $30.00 includes entry, Track pass, lunch, and motor (Falcon 7 motor) Additional motors (up to two more) $10.00
GT Coupe PD, Retro F1 and Can-Am - $20.00 includes entry, Track pass, lunch

Qualifying format: All classes will qualify. Each driver will receive 45 seconds of time to run their best lap. Given the large number of entries expected we will be moving along quickly. A maximum of 15 seconds will be allowed between drivers. "On deck" drivers should be standing next to the qualifying driver and be ready to hook up his/her controller quickly. Drivers finished qualifying will need to quickly unhook and move away. Cars will be returned to impound at the end of your run. Qualifying will be done in reverse order of tech - first teched last to qualify.

GT Coupe race format: After qualifying all drivers will be placed in Mains determined by their qualifying times. The number of drivers in each Main will be determined by the total entry number in each class. No more than twelve racers will be placed in a Main. After all Mains are complete the drivers will be ranked by total laps run to determine a winner. GT Coupe FK and PD will run separately. The winner of the GT Coupe FK will be invited to run PD for free if they want to.

Retro F1 and Can-Am race format: After qualifying all drivers will be placed in prelim Mains determined by their qualifying times. The number of drivers in each Main will be determined by the total entry number in each class. No more than twelve racers will be placed in a prelim Main. After all prelim Mains are complete the drivers will be ranked by total laps run to determine the top 16. Those 16 drivers will be split into two groups of eight (1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15) and (2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16) and will run in two "Semis". After completion the top four in each Semi will move to the A Main to determine the overall winner of each class.

Track calls: Track calls will be kept to a MINIMUM. Only "riders" and cars in inaccessible locations are cause for a track call. In the infield near the bank is an example of an Inaccessible location. In the grass in the finger is NOT. On the floor is NOT a track call unless under the track, a chair, or a table.

Turn Marshalling: All drivers will be expected to marshal the race directly after theirs. The only exception is those in the last Main to run will marshal the first. AND... a recent pet peeve of mine... IF you just finished your Main and you need a cigarette then you need to finish it quick or inform the race director who is subbing for you. The time between mains will be as short as we can make it to conserve time. You know you need to marshal. I or any other race director WILL NOT chase you down to remind you of your obligation. Penalties WILL be issued. The responsibility is YOURS!

[Ron Hershman]

What's the entry fee for GTC PD???

See you forgot something... LOL.

Track calls: Track calls will be kept to a MINIMUM. Only "riders" and cars in inaccessible locations are cause for a track call. In the infield near the bank is an example of an Inaccessible location. In the grass in the finger is NOT. On the floor is NOT a track call unless under the track, a chair, or a table.

Is "under the bridge" accessible???

[Mike Patterson]

Not if I'm marshaling it!

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Under the bridge, in most cases, IS accessible. If there was a track call for ever time a car deslotted under the bridge this would be a four-day event. Track calls penalize those drivers who stay in the slot. In a race format that uses total laps over several different mains it is VERY important to minimize track calls. Mains with many track calls often have a lower total lap count.

So, again, under the bridge is NOT a track call in most cases. It will be left to the judgment of the Race Director.

[Noose]

The Marshall should have the right to call track under that bridge as it is not like other Kings. It is very low and often times trying to reach to get a car or cars causes more havoc and damage. Just sayin...

[Dennis Krivacek]

In NO way am I attempting to stir the pot here. I fully understand Mike's rationale for making this area a non-track call, but it is contingent upon the marshals particularly in this area being vigilant.

This would mean that the marshal on the donut side would have to bend down to watch under the bridge for those "silent" de-slots. Racers do tend to get excited when marshals in this area may not realize that there is a mishap under the bridge. Maybe an explanation to the marshal(s) in this area would go a long way.

[Larry Mattingly]

The Marshall should have the right to call track under that bridge as it is not like other Kings. It is very low and often times trying to reach to get a car or cars causes more havoc and damage. Just sayin...

Great point...

And, there is also the issue that every race director is different in how he interprets track calls. Some are more lenient; others wouldn't give their mother a track call.

LM

[Steve Deiters]

The Marshall should have the right to call track under that bridge as it is not like other Kings. It is very low and often times trying to reach to get a car or cars causes more havoc and damage. Just sayin...

Noose is right on this one. I was "in the hole" for two complete races at the recent ORS race and if the delotted car carries through slightly it is a tough reach and you do more damage knocking other guys off reaching for the errant car.

Since there will be plenty of people at this race maybe we would want to consider having a marshal on the other side of the bridge also. It won't solve the problem 100% but it will reduce it a whole bunch.

[Noose]

At all the R4s there have been two marshals but it still doesn't help because of how you have to reach. The angle to get to them from the position in the 90 is the worst.

[Noose]

And it isn't a bunch of youngsters doing this marshaling that are really limber either. LOL.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Before this spirals out of control (not that it ever happens on here ) let me say that my goal is to NOT penalize those who stayed in the slot because of those who didn't. Some of you talk like I enjoy hearing the carnage under the bridge and the sight of broken race cars. How many of you would argue as vigorously for a "Track Call" if the guy who you have been chasing and is now only half a lap ahead is the one parked under the bridge.

I agree with Den K. that a vigilant marshal will greatly reduce the need for Track Calls. And as Steve D. states when we have plenty of marshals we DO have a marshal kneeling on the "exit" side of the bridge.

But even with all that, track calls are still sometimes necessary. As a Race Director I spend more time watching the bridge area than any other part of the track. A marshal in that area, if he knows he can't reach a car, can certainly call "Track". The problem is that some marshals get "lazy" and call "Track" on almost every de-slot. Make no mistake, a "Track Call" penalizes everyone who is still in the slot.

And Mom only gets a "Track Call" if she deserves it... not just because she came off.

[Larry Mattingly]

And Mom only gets a "Track Call" if she deserves it... not just because she came off.

You big meanie...

My point is, if different race directors are used for the heats within a particular race, that also has an impact on the results.

I.E. one race director turns the power off when more than two cars come off in the same area... another race director doesn't. Very difficult to have all the race directors call it the same.

And, before you comment... NO, I don't want to be the race director ALL day, so I guess it is what it is...

LM

[Ron Hershman]

Well, if we can only get the racers to crash less...

[Larry Mattingly]

Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner... LOL.

LM

[One_Track_Mind]

Or keep the fast guys from knocking off the slower cars.

[MSwiss]

With the format Mike M is running, guys of similar speeds will be racing against each other.
IMO, the preferred way by most of both the fast and slower guys, for more fun and better racing.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I agree, Larry. That just underlines the fact that there is NO perfect way to do this. Just like there is NO perfect race format. No matter what any of us do there is going to be those who like it and those who don't. But that's OK too because it has always been and will always be that way. Compromise is the key.

[Rick]

One thing to consider is that many of us are old and fat, not to mention vertically challenged. I can't reach the finger infield. I hope we have a bunch of tall people attending this year.

I think the more important topic would be to avoid round robins, if possible. For example, 60 entries, could be (5) X 12 for 60 heats or (3) X 8 and (4) X 9. Both have 60 heats run. The small amount of time picked up on the RRs is not worth the effort to have a much better event...

[Larry Mattingly]

I agree Larry. That just underlines the fact that there is NO perfect way to do this. Just like there is NO perfect race format. No matter what any of us do there is going to be those who like it and those who don't. But that's OK too because it has always been and will always be that way. Compromise is the key.

Amen...

LM

[shadow]

I do have a question. I had two incidents where the turn marshal was reaching for a car under the bridge and his elbow hit my car. After about 1-1/2 laps my car was put back on then everyone was calling track under the bridge.

Also had a shirt marshal by accident under the bridge.

Are these track calls or is it just racing? (Both times I did not fall off.)

[Noose]

'Zactly, Dave. That was my point. You don't have to be the one causing it but surely can be a victim of it.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I do have a question. I had two incidents where the turn marshal was reaching for a car under the bridge and his elbow hit my car. After about 1-1/2 laps my car was put back on then everyone was calling track under the bridge.

Also had a shirt marshal by accident under the bridge.

Are these track calls or is it just racing? (Both times I did not fall off.)

Do you have solution? Other than shutting down the power for EVERY deslotted car. Would you be happy if you were the one still in the slot with MANY, MANY more "Track Calls"?

Without a workable solution I would say it is "just racing". All of use have been been hurt by these types of situations as well as being helped by them. BUT, the only one we remember is the one that "screwed" us.

[shadow]

Mike,

This is a suggestion not an answer. Maybe the person or persons under the bridge that can't reach the cars should be the only ones to call track. Everyone racing should be informed how this works.

Just a thought. Or, like you said before, it's just racing.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Thanks for the suggestion, Dave. That is how it is supposed to work now.

But at a recent race that is NOT what happened. And those still in the slot paid for it. I know sometimes drivers are innocent victims but THAT IS "just racing". Ask Danica about her Daytona experience this year for example. If a blanket statement was made that all deslots under the bridge were "Track Calls" then no marshal would try to clear the track and the day would be MUCH longer. The only real winners here would be those in a main with less deslots under the bridge. I don't think anyone can argue that every track call costs you laps if, for no other reason, lost momentum.

All I ask is that the marshal make a reasonable attempt. It is impossible to legislate every racer's skill level at marshaling. But they need to try and always be vigilant. After that, "It is what it is". No one is a professional marshal (well... maybe Gina ) so we have to do the best with what we have.

[Steve Deiters]

Any info on the streaming times and format (computer screen/racing action or both) for the race weekend?