51 replies to this topic

[TSR]

CLICK HERE.

This is the real thing. Last one sold about twelve years ago for $180K.

[Edwardo]

George Barber is quite the Lotus collector. I wouldn't be surprised if it wound up here in Alabama.

I for one would love to see it sitting in his Museum.

[mcseitz]

^{The one at the Indy museum really shows how strikingly RED that STP shade is. It jumps out at you clear across the room.}

[Matt Sheldon]

Want to start a pool for the selling price?

[TSR]

Depends on the reserve... if Richard is too ambitious, there could be a "no sale" and after-auction dealings, so we may never know!

Richard's car, as with every other type 56 (the four originals AND the five replicas built) does not have the original Pratt & Whitney turbine, because after the end of the 1968 season, the company took them back.

Historically speaking, the Lotus Type 56 SHOULD have won the 1968 Indy 500 if it was not for a bit of a mistake by Colin Chapman: by replacing the less-performing kerosene with gasoline, the phosphor-bronze fuel-pump shaft was no longer lubricated properly and both remaining cars came to a stop, out of fuel delivery, just laps from the end. Bobby Unser had brought them a heck of a fight all race long in the Rislone Eagle powered by a turbo-Offy and won, to the relief of many.

All four Lotus 56s still exist, some with new tubs.

[MG Brown]

Without question- one of my favorite racing cars.



I wish that I had the resources to be a serious bidder.

[Dr. Gamma]

I was there for both years of the whooshmobiles. Parnelli had the '67 race in the bag. It was weird to hear the whooshmobile come down the main straight compared to the DOHC Fords, and the one Gurney Weslake stockblock. Didn't Chapman come back to the Speedway after Mike Spence's death in one of the turbines the day before Time Trials?

I remember hearing Tom Carnegie say " We have a new track record" when the Lotus turbines qualified for the pole back in '68. Those were the REAL glory days of the Indy 500. No spec cars back then. Run what you brung back then. Didn't Granatelli butcher up one of the Lotus turbines with a Plymouth stockblock later that year?? Wonder who got to drive the repaired tub that Spence got killed in??

Plus the the second generation Gurney Eagles finish first, second, and fourth that year, too?? Plus Dan the Man took his Gurney Weslake-headed stockblock Ford to the best finish ever by a stockblock at Indy. I don't count that Mercedes "stockblock" as a stockblock. That motor was in name only a stockblock.

God, those were the days!!!

[TSR]

That motor was in name only a stockblock

Actually the block was cast from a 1993 450SEL basic alloy block... but everything else was indeed special. nNw you should also know that Gurney's "stock block" was not stock either, the basic casting being aluminum and not... cast iron!

And prototype three-valve heads are not exactly stock either!

.

[Dr. Gamma]

But didn't Gurney's aluminum stockblock have the same dimensions as the iron blocks?? Didn't the rules back than allow different heads?? Bet you the pushrods in Gurney's motor were near stock Ford length unlike the ones found in the Benz motors. Gurney's motor was a lot more of a stockblock then that Benz thingie!!!

[TSR]

Absolutely, but as did Gurney, Penske only followed the rules to a word. Ilmor produced a "stock block" pushrod engine from a Mercedes alloy block that originally had heads with overhead cams! At least the basic block WAS a production block, strong enough to stand the 900HP produced.

In fact, if one observes the Gurney engine, cast not by Ford but by one of the hot-rod companies in the day, (there are two such engines in SoCal on display, one at the Marconi museum in Tustin, one at the Riverside Museum in Riverside), one can see that the only "stock" part of the engine is its general appearance, as there is hardly a "stock" part on it.

Don't be mad at Penske for what he did: he only read the rule book better than others, and had these five engines built at Ilmor for very cheap money, much less than the cost of the full-race Ilmor four-cam "Chevrolet".

[Pete L.]

Philippe,

I strongly feel that Penske had a lot to do with the Indy of today!

[TSR]

Pete,

In which way?

[Pete L.]

I feel as though Indy's position in the world of motorsports is a direct result of the USAC/CART fiasco. I also feel that Mr. Penske was the driving force in the split and Indy as well as Indy Car racing has been paying the price since.

Indy suffers from short fields, unknown drivers, big names defecting to NASCAR (where one doesn't have to win to be a star just put on a pink driving suit) and you'll be on TV! Can anyone see A.J. Foyt putting on a pink drivers uniform??? Or Johnny Rutherford or Lloyd Ruby...

[MG Brown]

Wonder who got to drive the repaired tub that Spence got killed in??

I was told that Mike Spence's car #30 became the Lotus 56B Grand Prix car, so the answer to your question is Emerson Fittipaldi, Reine Weisel, and Dave Walker.

[TSR]

I feel as though Indy's position in the world of motorsports is a direct result of the USAC/CART fiasco. I also feel that Mr. Penske was the driving force in the split and Indy as well as Indy Car racing has been paying the price since.

Pete,

There were more than one "driving force". In the IMS camp, Tony George bears lot of the responsibility for the fiasco.

In the CART camp, Pat Patrick was much more of a problem for a long time than Penske.

But this is not the thread to argue the point and besides I am sure that Larry Mattingly will set you right soon.

[SteveDee]

I have felt for years that the red, white, and gold paint scheme of the "Gold Leaf Team Lotus" era is one of the prettiest ever.

Wish I could take a shot at Petty's Lotus, that's what dreams are made of.

[Ron Hershman]

A little research...

Lotus 56/1 Parnelli Jones owns.

Lotus 56/2 became the F1 car.

Lotus 56/3 Richard Petty owns.

Lotus 56/4 is in North Carolina and was on eBay last Aug for a reserve of 1.5 million It did not sell.

So if the above is true from internet info... can we assume the 56s in the Indy Museum are fakes??

56/1 RE is in Avon, IN, and is built from the spare tub of 56/1 which was owned by Parnelli at one time.

[Ron Hershman]

Also the Petty Lotus is the only one with the original Lotus pan/tub.

[Larry Mattingly]

There were more than one "driving force". In the IMS camp, Tony George bears lot of the responsibility for the fiasco.

In the CART camp, Pat Patrick was much more of a problem for a long time than Penske.

But this is not the thread to argue the point and besides I am sure that Larry Mattingly will set you right soon.

No arguing from me, P...

I just fail to see how Tony George can be blamed for CART stabbing USAC in the back in the ORIGINAL mutiny...

Perhaps if that wouldn't have taken place the IRL would have never happened...

LM

[tonyp]

Part of what made Indy special for me was the different cars that showed up every year from the fast to the weird. There was always the unusual to root for. But with computers those days a long over.

[Dr. Gamma]

You mean cars like these!!!



The twin Porsche-engined, four wheel drive car from 1966.

Or the weirdest of all: Smokey's side by side car!!!

[tonyp]

Exactly!

[TSR]

I just fail to see how Tony George can be blamed for CART stabbing USAC in the back in the ORIGINAL mutiny... Perhaps if that wouldn't have taken place the IRL would have never happened...

Yes, Larry, I am sure that all the teams walked away from USAC in 1979 and USAC had absolutely nothing to do with it.

As far as the Lotus type 56, the history is a bit complex because both Andy Granatelli AND the Vel's Parnelli teams each built TWO replicas from NOS and new parts.

There are two T56 retaining their original tubs and most of their parts, the "70" car ex-Graham Hill, of which the collapsed suspension had been repaired after the Indy 500, and that kept racing the rest of the USAC events until the end of 1968. Andy Granatelli later donated the car to Richard Petty, sans engine.

The other one is the "20" car, in which Mike Spence had been unfortunately killed when the right front wheel hit his head when he lost it. Helmets were not then what they are today. The car had little damage and was returned to the UK, where it was modified with side tanks and run in Formula One events. This car is part of the Lotus collection.

The remaining two cars were crashed, their tubs changed. The "60" Joe Leonard car and the "20" Art Pollard car ran into each other at Riverside and both tubs were too damaged to repair. This is when Granatelli had new tubs made in house.

In 1969, one of the cars was converted to an Offy turbo, but that did not work. A NEW car built from a new tub and NOS parts was converted to a Plymouth engine and that did not work either. Andy then built two replicas from the remaining parts. One is the one on display at the IMS. The other is the one in Parnelli's museum.
None of the cars have the original engines because it is to this day, unobtainium.

The Bruce Linsky car is a replica, that uses a new tub by Parnelli and some NOS parts.

[tonyp]

What happened to the original engines?

[TSR]

Pratt & Whitney took them back after the Indy 500, then loaned some for the remaining races, then took them back for good at the end of the year. There were only a few built and they were prototypes of a lightweight turbine designed for an assault helicopter that was stillborn. P&W had so much egg on their face after the Indy disaster that they simply wanted nothing to do with more bad publicity.

The turbine engine in the F1 car was returned to P&W in 1972.