Jump to content




Photo

Daily history for 5/21/12 - NYMRA motor


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,155 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mineola, NY

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

Found this motor just as you see it in this case. What is the origin of this motor? I am pretty sure it did not come in this case but what did?

slotblog 113.jpg

Joe Lupo





#2 don.siegel

don.siegel

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,884 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

Actually, from the side and with that pinion, looks like a stock Russkit 23 from one of their Carrera cars!

A Cobra motor could very well have come in that case, but it would have the Cobra label on it.

What does the arm look like?

Don

#3 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

Japan? Just a guess.
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#4 endbelldrive

endbelldrive

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,739 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Location:Witless Protection Program

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:56 PM

Did the Russkit 23 come the 500B endbell hardware? Joe, didn't we buy a bunch of mint Revell 500B can drive motors that came up for auction a few years back? :)
Bob Suzuki

#5 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

Please show the motor so that we can see the armature and the mystery will be quickly resolved... :)
Looks like a stock Russkit 23 to me, as said above. Even the white and black lead wires are stock Russkit items.

#6 Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,155 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mineola, NY

Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:20 PM

Bob, Dry, Very dry.
Yes, I am sure it is a stock "23"
I was actually referring to the sticker on the motor.
Bob, "22" was old style, "23" had the brush holders and hotter arm I believe. And what's that "we" stuff :D I do not have a bunch of can drive 16's although I wish I did. Getting tougher to find these. Still millions of EBD 16's floating around especially the early style.

Joe Lupo


#7 Hworth08

Hworth08

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,563 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Springfield, TN

Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:43 PM

Were the early Cobra motors not painted a deep red/brown metallic color?

I've seen the NYMRA letters before. Might stand for New York Minature Racing Association.
Don Hollingsworth

#8 Jaz

Jaz

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 296 posts
  • Joined: 10-March 06

Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:37 PM

Hobbytrack, Wantagh/Levittown, NY.
Mirrored Englemans.

Fred should know more.
Jeff Morris

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over." Fuds 1st law of opposition

#9 Hworth08

Hworth08

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,563 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Springfield, TN

Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

My first thought about the Hobbytrack sticker was that someone could have been more careful of it's placement.

After viewing the picture more carefully I'm thinking the sticker was intended as a seal. An early sealed motors?
Don Hollingsworth

#10 Joe Mig

Joe Mig

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,937 posts
  • Joined: 25-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY, USA

Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:27 PM

I've seen the NYMRA letters before. Might stand for New York Minature Racing Association.


Yes it does.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#11 Superbird

Superbird

    Cast your magic spell my way. I promise to go under it.

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North AL

Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:12 PM

Hi guys!

 

Ouch! I think the only connection between Cobra (Bronx), NYMRA,  Hobbytrack (Levittown) and that anemic motor is the timeframe! I'll put it at '65-'66 since that motor was obsolete by '67. The owner of the motor-and-a-box probably shopped around for bargains around '67-'68 like my friends and I did.

 

My guess is that the owner scored the stuff (or it came from a cast off plie) at Hobbytown. Cobra and NYMRA weren't selling materials by then and Hobbytown had lots of old stock built up. Hobbytrack was a great place for youngsters like us and their display case was a cross-section of obsolete and current kits, RTRs, scratch built used cars and pro built new stuff. I only bought my first fast machine there in '67 because my Mom took pity on me and bought me in way over my head. Great story for a different time. The only unusual item in the picture id the Hobbytrack label and I have no idea why the track printed a label like that. They didn't market anything of their own except maybe used slot cars. I never heard of anyone sealing a motor in those days and why would anyone seal such an anemic Mitsubishi offering anyway?

 

Not a bad antique example of a motor. Clearly it is unused because they usually burnt out after a fairly short life.

 

Good memories!

 

Superbird


Pete Shreeves

#12 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:23 PM

The "23' was not that anemic... pro racers used them to WIN races in 1966 and 1967...  :)
 



#13 Superbird

Superbird

    Cast your magic spell my way. I promise to go under it.

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North AL

Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:58 PM

Thinking again (always dangerous) you might be right Don. The NYMRA may very well have officiated over a race at Hobbytrack and arranged for them to provide sealed motors. That would explain why the words Hobbytrack and NYMRA appear on the same label. In those days the cans were opened by bent side tabs which are covered by the position of the label the picture.

 

To my own question, why seal a motor that is so anemic? The question answers itself. To make sure the same common power plant is used by all the competitors without improvement. I can imagine a field of 1965-66 scratch built scale or even factory offering Monograms, AMTs, MPCs or whatever manufacturer used the motors lining up on the track. All one design? All one race category? All one manufacturer chassis? 1/32nd or 1/24th?  Maybe any factory set up or scratch built limited to the same motor? Such a fair race would truly show up the best drivers. Very interesting scenario.

 

Superbird  


Pete Shreeves

#14 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:40 PM

Pete, hardly, because no two motors are truly equal, and no two identical chassis and setups will ever be equal.

The best that can be done is to offer the racers an even hand with sealed handout motors, but it will never be completely fair since luck is involved.

The fact that the same guys make all the main events on a very consistent basis tell the story: they set up their cars better, drive better and manage their "equal" motors better.

Managing might mean all kinds of things nowadays...



#15 Superbird

Superbird

    Cast your magic spell my way. I promise to go under it.

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North AL

Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:23 PM

Thanks Philippe,

 

Good points about the skills of top competitors in tuning, preparing and simply being darned good drivers. The sealed can Flexi racing I remember was much the same challenge. Experienced drivers will always have an advantage and then there was the occasional track owner who bought a large number of sealed motors to test and decide who gets issued the best motors (assuming the owner isn't entered himself which happened also). Luck plays a part as you point out. The idea of sealed motors is to provide the impression that the racing is equal-enough that even a novice could be competitive on a given night. Otherwise the guys moving up through the ranks would be alienated and stay home. I've interviewed a number of track owners from the '60s who freely admitted to using rare parts or 'faster' equal motors to dominate the competition at their track. Human nature, I guess. The best track owners didn't enter races at all.

 

I never thought about the pre-'67 mostly scale racer era because I wasn't very active that early. Seeing this Hobbytrack/NYMRA motor suggests to me that there was more going on than out-of-the-box 'scale racing'. Must have been fun!

 

Pete  


Pete Shreeves

#16 Superbird

Superbird

    Cast your magic spell my way. I promise to go under it.

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North AL

Posted 05 January 2015 - 11:24 PM

Hello folks,

 

I had a chance to yank open a Russkit a little older than the one in the picture. Mine doesn't have the metal brush sleeves and still has the brush channel molded into the endbell.  It brought back many memories of working in these things back in the day. How many times did I dig these parts out of molten endbell plastic or pick around their blackened and stinking armature wires? In those days we would run a car a few laps and pull it in to let the motor cool. They didn't live long under the harsh treatment we gave them on race day.  

 

I did a quick comparison with a more recent "silver can" armature. (see photo) The Russkit armature is shorter and has a smaller diameter. The coil wire is about half the thickness of the silver can and the coil has far more winds. The earlier commutator has less robust stamped contacts and a structure molded from lower melt temperature white plastic. The Russkit motor has a short rear shaft which goes into a blind can bushing.

 

The old Russkit is a good example of Mabuchi's mass production when they introduced the 16D to a growing assembly of slot car manufacturers. An era of disruptive horsepower technology started here.

 

Superbird

Attached Images

  • RussKit 23 broken armature 1-14.jpg

Pete Shreeves





Electric Dreams Online Shop