20 replies to this topic

[stevefzr]

I've never seen anything like this before. This MPC Lancia D50 turns up looking like it's hardly been run, but check out the magnets!




That powder stuff is the magnets, or what's left of them. They've just disintegrated into a powder. What causes that? I've never seen it before. Hopefully it's not some magnet eating super virus that's spreading to my Cukras and Champion thumbprint motors!

Regards,

Steve C

[Lone Wolf]

Wow, that's nasty. When I first looked at it I thought it was deteriorated sponge! I have not seen this before. I think these magnets are GE Lodex if that means anything.

It could be that down under the magnetic force is reversed and has caused this phenononem

I think these may be offered in those little MPC parts containers. Has anyone ever replaced these? Do you need to remagnatize?

Anyway, make sure you keep any other motors away from that mess until you clean it up.

[boxerdog]

I have a few of those somewhere...or I did!! Better check them out. Could be a magneto-virus.

[Bruce Neasmith]

In earlier times ( read this as 1988 ) I have seen this
type of degradation occur on these MPC Dyno Charger motors.
Even remember taking a new motor out of a sealed packet and
one of the magnets was lunching itself . The level of total
collapse of your motors' magnets may relate to the way the
car was stored , or a past re-zapping adventure gone wrong.
From what I have seen over the last 25 years , I feel the
magnets are just breaking down due to age . Ashes to ashes !

BRUCE NEASMITH

[don.siegel]

What can be sintered can be desintered... assuming this were sintered magnets in the first place, and not sure of that.

I'd write to GE and see if their warranty still holds up...

Don

[Jairus]

Clean it up and stick a couple of Neo's from a TSR motor in there!

[ravajack]

Very strange phenomenon!
Is the remaining powder still magnetic?
But it seems that the Lodex magnets were very fragile...

[stevefzr]

Jabirus, the magnets are also the bearings and pole piece spaces. And yes, the powder is stil magnetic

[slotbaker]

Global warming..

[Gator Bob]

Yup, it happens.

Have a new never run Scarab with the same magnet eating thing going on.
Replacement NOS motor and also NOS GE mags packed in tube are fine.

Could it be Earths polar shift

And ... MPC put the motor bushing in the magnet. Where did it go?

Jens, these are on eBay from time to time, took about six months to find replacement parts.

[Gary Bluestone]

I have seen this a few times. You may find it helpfull to use masking tape or similar tape to remove all the debris. I think quite simply, the magnet was made by gluing the iron particles together and the "glue" has disintigrated. It may be that a certain batch had an unstable element or some other factor like heat, humidity , storage, etc. I don't think it is contagious.The following description comes from the Journal of Physics and I think it basically says that these magnets are man made using amalgam which I think means glue. ;
The present (1966) Lodex permanent magnet is prepared by a relatively complex electrochemical and amalgam metallurgical process. A wide variety of magnetic properties may be obtained by altering the ratio of elongated particles to matrix material during processing. Isotropic and anisotropic permanent magnets having complex shapes and extremely close tolerances are formed directly by a variety of powder metal and extrusion processes. Such magnets consist of antimony coated particles of iron cobalt embedded in a metallic lead matrix.

[ravajack]

First, amalgam is not a glue, it involves a hazardous environment poison: Mercury alloy.
That means that these Lodex (a trademark brand of General Electric) magnets were pretty bad boys from the very beginning, and in more ways than one:

1. As we've seen, sustainable, long time quality was/is not very good...
2. The manufacturing process involved mercury and lead, both very poisonous elements.
3. The magnetic effect was inferior to other types of magnets already when new. Theory and practice didn't correspond.

It is no easy feat to research the Lodex magnets on the Net, as more often than not the serious information on these magnets is locked in behind bars and you're met with demands to pay for the info. And no small amounts: One example site wants a hefty $28 for a five (5) page PDF-report on these magnets:



Luckily, at least the front page of this paper could be retrieved, where part of the Lodex process is described:



Via Google books I came across a little more, in a "Introduction to Magnetic Materials" by a D. Cullity and C. D. Graham.
Apparently Lodex was/is a very special kind of magnet, as it has it's own chapter/section in the book:



Another paper retrieved via Google books (title unfortunately lost) has a little further info on the Lodex magnets:



Finally, the Lodex trademark now also seems up for grabs, as the registration expired in 1987 and GE doesn't seem to have renewed it. Or...?

[TSR]

Very common occurrence on early MPC cars, but motor parts are relatively easy to find, so replacement of the disintegrated mags is not too much of an issue yet. But what a mess! And in the cases i have seen, the powder is still magnetic.
Nasty stuff when you read the spec! No wonder GE let the trademark die...

[boxerdog]

Was this type of magnet also used in the GE motor?

[TSR]

No idea but the GE motors do not appear to have similar issues.

[Ramcatlarry]

Quality engineering...

Looks a bit like the MRRC rail racing frames from the 1950's...disintegratiing ......

[Gator Bob]

First, amalgam is not a glue, it involves a hazardous environment poison: Mercury alloy.

An alloy of mercury and silver used in dental fillings

[Gary Bluestone]

Should we be wearing rubber gloves, breathing filters or space suits for these. I have 1 more similar disintigrated motor to restore.

[don.siegel]

Gary, I think we should have been wearing spacesuits since the first time we inhaled solder fumes and moo vapors, but it may be too late now...

Don

[janj86]

aliens diffently

[Gator Bob]

The way I clean it up is by putting a neo in a 3mil plastic bag, suck it all up and the put that bag in another bigger plastic bag and remove the neo from the smaller 3mil bag.

 

Works great. It's like a fun magnet science experiment from grade school.

 

Moving the neo around reminded me of 'Etch-a-sketch"  ... or? what was that toy before that with the magnet pen on a string and the iron filings between to sheets of plastic???