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One of "my built" motors


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#1 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:04 AM

Built for the "Balls Out" California Thingie Proxy race - Cars are here :dirol:
I have not built one of "My Motors" in 20 years. :secret:
:wizard: It's... "Evil" :diablo:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

All NOS or new parts

Vintage Mura set-up - Blueprinted assembly.
Champion Yellow Dot magnets
Custom heatsinks

Modern Pro/Slot armature spec:
55 Turns of 28 AWG
.450" x .518" Stack
.012 air gap

Break-in test = 45 minutes total:
.94 amps @ 3 volts
.98 amps @ 6 volts

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#2 slotbaker

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:16 AM

Nice looking motor Bob, it should fly... but I don't think we are allowed heatsinks in the balls out.
:huh:

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#3 Champion 507

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:45 AM

Nice build, Bob. Some interesting ideas here.

It looks like the heat sinks are made from correct period Mura B-can brush hood base plates. It also looks like the aluminum base plates are also B-can. However, turning the base plates into heat sinks, might cause an issue with the rules, but I'm not the judge. Very nice concept, though.

I agree with Steve. It oughta scream.
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#4 havlicek

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:58 AM

Looks cool to me Bob. Love me some old Muras!

-john
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#5 Marty N

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:14 AM

What brushes are those that have shunts or did you make them?
Martin Nissen
 
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#6 havlicek

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:37 AM

Hey Marty. I don't know what Bob used, but drilling brushes to shunt them is EZ. You can even make a "drill bit" for this by just snipping the end on a piece of correctly-sized piano wire. The snipped end should be rough and sharp enough to drill into the brush and the spring groove makes it fairly easy to locate the hole. I just twist the shunt wire at the end and stick it in there, then untwist it and it should hold well enough to install the brushes, after which the spring leg holds them in very nicely. You can also tin the end of the shunt wire before inserting, but I don't bother. I think this works much better than just having the spring arm hold the shunt in the groove...even with vertical shunt grooves.

-john
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#7 Danny Zona

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:52 AM

How I love seeing those old mura motors.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#8 TSR

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:53 AM

Bob,
Your heat sinks are not period-korrekt..., and I'd be you I would mount my lead-wire clips on the flat surface under the opposite screws... for better conductivity. :)

#9 Pablo

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:51 PM

Looks super SANO Bob :clapping:

One question I have is, with regards to the Thingie Proxy, does it break Rule # 14 ?
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#10 Champion 507

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:01 PM

Champion used to sell shunted brushes in the 26D size and the 36D size. I have some. Champion put 26D size brush holders in their Celcon endbells for the late 507s and 517s and that took care of their 16D size motors. I'm not aware that Champion made the tiny 16D brushes with shunts. Maybe Dokk could komment.

Bob could have used a vintage pair of 36D Champions. What did you use, Bob?
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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:20 PM

Nice looking motor Bob, it should fly... but I don't think we are allowed heatsinks in the balls out.
:huh:

Thanks Steve !
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#12 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:21 PM

Nice build, Bob. Some interesting ideas here.

It looks like the heat sinks are made from correct period Mura B-can brush hood base plates. It also looks like the aluminum base plates are also B-can. However, turning the base plates into heat sinks, might cause an issue with the rules, but I'm not the judge. Very nice concept, though.

I agree with Steve. It oughta scream.


Ding, Ding, Ding - WINNER.
BTG Doug " damn good eye for a Champion guy" :D
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#13 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:22 PM

Looks cool to me Bob. Love me some old Muras!

-john


Thanks John!
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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:26 PM

What brushes are those that have shunts or did you make them?


Those brushes came with the shunts installed, I can't remember who mad them but they were super SANO, expensive and hard to find. I bought them at Zepplin Hobbies in 1989 or 90. I used them in my championship "Outlaw Flexi" class cars. Save 2 pairs for this kind of motor, 1 pair left.
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#15 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:27 PM

Hey Marty. I don't know what Bob used, but drilling brushes to shunt them is EZ. You can even make a "drill bit" for this by just snipping the end on a piece of correctly-sized piano wire. The snipped end should be rough and sharp enough to drill into the brush and the spring groove makes it fairly easy to locate the hole. I just twist the shunt wire at the end and stick it in there, then untwist it and it should hold well enough to install the brushes, after which the spring leg holds them in very nicely. You can also tin the end of the shunt wire before inserting, but I don't bother. I think this works much better than just having the spring arm hold the shunt in the groove...even with vertical shunt grooves.

-john


Thanks John, I will try this method. :good:
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#16 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:32 PM

Bob,
Your heat sinks are not period-korrekt..., and I'd be you I would mount my lead-wire clips on the flat surface under the opposite screws... for better conductivity. :)


I did this trick before I got my first period - korrect? LOL. "B" can plates came before "C" as you know.

My intent was to put the lead wire connectors on the opposite screw but the was interference with the spring and spring retainer tabs.
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#17 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:33 PM

How I love seeing those old mura motors.


They are so cool :heart: :good:
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#18 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

Champion used to sell shunted brushes in the 26D size and the 36D size. I have some. Champion put 26D size brush holders in their Celcon endbells for the late 507s and 517s and that took care of their 16D size motors. I'm not aware that Champion made the tiny 16D brushes with shunts. Maybe Dokk could komment.

Bob could have used a vintage pair of 36D Champions. What did you use, Bob?


Yes, Champ made (sold) shunted 16/26d brushes back in the day. PM me if you need a pair, you da winner.

I have vintage 36D brushes NOS no shunts. These were a hot item after they were replace by a brush for another manufacturer ... these were claimed to be better and some refereed to them as 'pull-outs'.
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#19 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:41 PM

Looks super SANO Bob :clapping:

One question I have is, with regards to the Thingie Proxy, does it break Rule # 14 ?


Pablo, thanks for the :good:
I'l go back and re-read rules ;)
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#20 zipper

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:16 AM

I have vintage 36D brushes NOS no shunts. These were a hot item after they were replace by a brush for another manufacturer ... these were claimed to be better and some refereed to them as 'pull-outs'.

Still have a couple of them, "Old Originals" sold just one pair in a plastic bag - and not too cheap.
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#21 Marty N

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:47 AM

Those brushes came with the shunts installed, I can't remember who mad them but they were super SANO, expensive and hard to find. I bought them at Zepplin Hobbies in 1989 or 90. I used them in my championship "Outlaw Flexi" class cars. Save 2 pairs for this kind of motor, 1 pair left.


Isn't that the way it always goes? :diablo: BTW Bob. Nice motor build! :clapping:

John, thanks for the tip. I'll try it. :D
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#22 Bill from NH

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:54 AM

Hey Marty. I don't know what Bob used, but drilling brushes to shunt them is EZ. You can even make a "drill bit" for this by just snipping the end on a piece of correctly-sized piano wire. The snipped end should be rough and sharp enough to drill into the brush and the spring groove makes it fairly easy to locate the hole. I just twist the shunt wire at the end and stick it in there, then untwist it and it should hold well enough to install the brushes, after which the spring leg holds them in very nicely. You can also tin the end of the shunt wire before inserting, but I don't bother. I think this works much better than just having the spring arm hold the shunt in the groove...even with vertical shunt grooves.

-john


John, this has been my way for installing shunts since my wing car days in the early 1970's. I put a minature drill bit in my Dremel & had at it on a low speed setting. I used different bit sizes depending how large the shunt wire was. One advantage of doing it this way is you'll never get a hung brush caused by a shunt wire. :)

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#23 TSR

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:18 AM

One question I have is, with regards to the Thingie Proxy, does it break Rule # 14 ?

Pablo, thanks for the :good:
I'l go back and re-read rules ;)


Actually Bob, I think that it breaks rule # 15. External heat sinks as you have them only appeared in 1972... and with a wire size like you have, you do not really need them, all you have to do is use one set of the flat Mura aluminum plates because they DID exist prior to December 1970.

#24 Jairus

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:17 AM

Technically, its not a rule because I am not a lawyer and didn't write a rule for every possible infraction. But I did write it in very clearly as an update in post #5: "that only the aluminum spacer is allowed beneath the copper" brush hardware.

One interesting aspect of this discussion is that Bob never made any heat sinks exactly. And while I have seen more than one motor with a stack of those copper plates under the brush tube... this is the first example of mounting one of those plates offset. It doesn't quite break the rules as the parts are all correct. Just assembled in a slightly different fashion in order to achieve a different effect.
Definitely not in the spirit of the Thingie... but innovative to be sure.

My only concern is that it will leave the brush tubes slightly cocked at an angle to the comm. unless balanced somehow under the other screw.?!?!
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#25 Jairus

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:19 AM

P.S. Bob, I have tabbed brush hoods I can send you if you need a set. Which it appears you do.

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#26 TSR

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:39 AM

Certainly a very imaginative way to use legal parts, I have to tip my hat to Bob for that one! :D
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#27 Gator Bob

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:11 AM

Technically, its not a rule because I am not a lawyer and didn't write a rule for every possible infraction. But I did write it in very clearly as an update in post #5: "that only the aluminum spacer is allowed beneath the copper" brush hardware.

One interesting aspect of this discussion is that Bob never made any heat sinks exactly. And while I have seen more than one motor with a stack of those copper plates under the brush tube... this is the first example of mounting one of those plates offset. It doesn't quite break the rules as the parts are all correct. Just assembled in a slightly different fashion in order to achieve a different effect.
Definitely not in the spirit of the Thingie... but innovative to be sure.

My only concern is that it will leave the brush tubes slightly cocked at an angle to the comm. unless balanced somehow under the other screw.?!?!


Thanks for understanding that this is just an assembly method thinking outside the box as any good Thingie builder was doing back in the day.
With that said I don't think it is out of the spirit.

The 'heatsink' is mounted on the top side of the hood. I am not real happy with the lead wire connectors, after testing and review breakage is a concern and they are coming off for now. BTW, those connectors Are from the 60s.

Thanks for the hood w/tab offer but I'll find a spot to solder wires to. In the 80s I soldered the leads directly to the hood over the brush box for "the path of least resistance".
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#28 Gator Bob

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:12 AM

Certainly a very imaginative way to use legal parts, I have to tip my hat to Bob for that one! :D


Dokk, coming from you 'that's big', Thanks!
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#29 Jairus

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:13 AM

I didn't say it was legal. But he used legal parts to do it. I've just been watching and waiting to see what other entrants had to say. And you Philippe, are not incorrect.

Still not sure what to do about Bob...
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#30 Gator Bob

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

I didn't say it was legal. But he used legal parts to do it. I've just been watching and waiting to see what other entrants had to say. And you Philippe, are not incorrect.

Still not sure what to do about Bob...


Jairus, you are in good company and not alone ... no one really knows (or knew) what to do with Bob :D
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#31 Pablo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 02:12 PM

Well, if they are not "buss bars", then what are they ? "Bob Bars" ? :crazy:
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#32 TSR

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

They are actually a smart way to use little wire connectors and it would have been good to use them in the day before we were smart enough to use buss bars...
But Bob has them on the wrong screws! :D

#33 Gator Bob

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

Well, if they are not "buss bars", then what are they ? "Bob Bars" ? :crazy:


Pablo my Bro, I'm glad you asked. :good:

Champion called their buss bars - Bulllit Bars
Mura called their heat sinks - Elephant Ears

I did come up with a name for these misplaced/mis-assembled Mura B can brush plates.

:laugh2: It's a TM name I came up with... you guys wanna guess the name or me to just tell y'all? :victory:

PS: Cheater, (or any mod squad-ders) please don't 'correct' the spelling to Bullet Bars. Thank you in advance. :D
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#34 Gator Bob

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:43 PM

They are actually a smart way to use little wire connectors and it would have been good to use them in the day before we were smart enough to use buss bars...
But Bob has them on the wrong screws! :D


Dokk, we've been through this, think 'springs'.

I've got 15 hours in that endbell. At my going rate of $1.00 freshly printed dollar per hour plus parts, warehouse floor space, and fuel surcharges .. would make it worth ... like ... 17 bucks .. ;)

You should of had me on your team when you ran pro :victory: I do controllers too, just don't let me use a car And a controller at the same time :dash2: :sarcastic_hand:
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#35 boxerdog

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:53 PM

I think it's a creative use of stuff that was available at the time...I am sure it has been done before, everything has! So I'd say let it be. JMO.
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#36 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:47 AM

Well, if they are not "buss bars", then what are they ? "Bob Bars" ? :crazy:


You asked and never came back for the answer.....

Obama EarsTM

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#37 Pablo

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:59 AM

:laugh2:

Bob, don't tell me lack of a flag nut is keeping you from entering the Proxy........ :shok:
C'mon Dude
I ain't skeered of no Swamp Buggy nor Fast Ones horsepower..... :) Let's drag.... :D
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#38 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:51 PM

What about 'MY' horsepower ? ... :crazy:
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#39 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

This motor was not run in the Balls Out Proxy.

Too controversial. :crazy:  Someone said I was breaking the rules. :diablo:   

 

Mr. Hershman supplied a "Big Demon" and it was plenty stout ... Thanks Ron!

 

Anyway... So now it has been upgraded with a ProSlot Infinity arm 30t x 26awg. OMG!!! :heat:

 

Now it is a Dog .... Atomic Dog that is.. :dance3:  :sarcastic_hand:

 

Futuristic Bow-Wow :laugh2:


Edited by Bob Israelite, 29 June 2013 - 11:22 PM.

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#40 Pablo

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:13 PM

First of all, it's spelled "Sergeant".
Second of all, that is an ARMY rank. I'm NAVY.
We have "Company Commanders", not "Drill Sergeants"
Glad you found a better use for the motor ! <G> (emoticons not working at work)
Paul Wolcott

#41 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

 

 

I'm just kiddidin round witch ya'll. :prankster2:


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                            Bob Israelite

#42 Pablo

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:46 PM

Now, what are you going to put it in ?
Paul Wolcott

#43 Gator Bob

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:21 AM

Building a modified oldie ... 66-67ish vintage.

I'll start with this basic set-up, round up some performance parts and see what happens.

IMG_2514.JPG


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                            Bob Israelite

#44 Gator Bob

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:26 PM

The old gold motor can got a freshening up, straightened, 5mm bushing hole, magnet tabs flattened and vent hole/magnet stops removed. 

 

The rest of the parts might be retired to the box marked 'junk', there is not much to work with. 

IMG_2517.JPG IMG_2521.JPG


  • havlicek likes this
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                            Bob Israelite

#45 havlicek

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:34 PM

Very nice Bob.  It bears repeating (and your photograph shows this perfectly) that these cans were very nicely formed.  I know I may sound like a broken record sometimes, but Mabuchi often (and rightly) is the subject of a good amount of scorn.  Still, there were some things about their motors that were really nice.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#46 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:14 AM

Thanks John and you are right ... cans are formed very nicely.

These early blind bushing cans make a good platform for a light weight vintage 'hopped up' motor. 


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#47 Gator Bob

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:36 AM

Old Can is coming out good.

 

Mura shim and magnets, Ball Bearing, Drilled/Taped for M2 mounting.

 

 

 

IMG_2528.JPG

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IMG_2531.JPG


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                            Bob Israelite

#48 havlicek

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:31 AM

Looks really good Bob. :)  Those Mura "can-in-a-can" shims and matching magnets (which produce a  pretty stout field!) produce a very tight hole from what I remember (haven't done one in a year or two).  Have you measured the ID yet to see what's what?  I'm pretty sure that a .510" arm barely fits and they can get quite warm with a decent wind.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#49 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:14 AM

You're not kidding Bob, that can came out really well
:good: what arm are you fitting in it?

Given me some ideas of what to do with the very same can in can shim & magnets ..

Look forward to seeing the finished motor, are you going to be painting the can?

#50 Gator Bob

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:24 PM

 John,

You are right ..

I have run into that style shim making the hole 'way' small ... but ? this one sat slugged at .560 with 'C' can Mura magnets when I soldered the BB in.

 

Paul,

Thinking no paint on this one. I'm trying to decide if I should go can drive.

Nothing 'too hot' this is to be built as a long lasting sold runner.

The arms under consideration for CW can side drive range from

55/30-.440 :)   

50/29-.440 :D

55/28-.450 :lol:


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                            Bob Israelite





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