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JK Super Spec chassis rules


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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:43 AM

For the 2012 Sano VI, JK Super spec will be run for those who are on the IRRA GTC-PD only list.

Others may run it also , but can not also run Regular JK Spec.

Chassis choices for Super Spec will be:

1) the older JK Can-Am chassis. built to the same rules as regular JK Spec.

2) the new JK X25R, built to the rules listed below.

There will be a 105G weight minimum for the complete car, regardless of what chassis used.

To facilitate the car also possibly being raced on Saturday or Sunday, ball bearing front wheels and ball bearings for the rear axle,
may be used on either chassis.

Note, front uprights will not be allowed to be modified to accept ball bearing's on either chassis.

BRP style, lock nut front axles, will be allowed in either class.

Super Spec Chassis Rules:

1) 3/4" wide JK bracket, supplied in kit, must be used, unmodified except for :

A ) slight tweaking, if required, to better fit rear chassis piece.

B ) slight opening of bearing holes to accept 7/32" dia. axle tube, if used.

Note; bearings may also be soldered or glued directly in bracket sides, to facilitate use of axle collars.

2) the 4 brass chassis pcs. must remain unmodified with the exception of:

A ) slight filing of rear pc., for optimum bracket fit.

B ) slight filing of rear pc., for .078" main rails, if used.

C ) slight filing of front pc. slots for .078" main rails, if used.

D ) uprights not being used, be it on the front pc. or pans, may be trimmed on the vertical surface only. See below illustration.

E ) trimming of the horizontal brass in the upright area is prohibited. IE-chassis, when viewed from bottom, must appear unmodified.

F ) the 4 brass pcs. may not be assembled in any manner where they overlap each other. IE- the horizontal surfaces of all 4 pcs. , with the exception of the
coined guide tongue, must be in the same plane.

3) chassis must use either .062" or .078" dia., round solid steel main rails, only 1 per side, soldered to the full length of the brass front rear pcs.

A maximum 1/16" gap may be left on the end of the slots, in both the front and rear brass pcs.

Slight flattening of wire from sanding of bottom of chassis will be allowed. Note: tech director will reserve the right to not allow any chassis he feels has been
excessively sanded/ cleaned to intentionally lighten chassis.

A ) the only thing allowed to be soldered to the exposed rails running between the front and rear pcs., is one simple "U" shaped pc. of wire, maximum .032" dia.,
to help prevent the lead wire from dragging. The part soldered on each rail may not exceed .375" in length. See below illustration.

B ) an additional earing back style, lead wire clip, may be soldered to the middle of the wire.

C ) additional earing back style lead wire clips may also be soldered to the front pc.

D ) the existing bent up lead wire holder does not have to utilized, but of course, can not be removed.

4) pan movement may only be achieved using the 4 unmodified ( approx. 093" square ) openings in the upights and on the ears of the back pc.

A ) any size wire may be used front and rear.

B ) wire may be flattened, vertically or horizontally, to achieve any desired movement,(or lack of)

C ) pans may be made to move independently, but can not extend past the 3.125" max. width, when spread all the way out.

5) body can only be affixed, utilizing the 4 stock body mount tabs, using one of the following methods;

A ) 1/16" O.D. , approx. 1/32" I.D. brass tubing, soldered solid in the holes in the tabs, and using straight pins in the tubes.

B ) or the tabs, unmodified, and using body clips.

6) an IRRA legal size (1.50" x 1.00" max.), steel guide tongue brace may be added.

7) any bracing may be added to the 4 brass pcs., motor bracket, & axle tube (if used), using IRRA legal materials. IE- piano wire or brass.


Posted Image

Posted Image

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
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#2 MSwiss

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:37 AM

Posted Image
While not legal due to being the slightly different first prototype, this Ray Price built chassis, has all legal, Super Spec building details.

Posted Image

Posted Image
This pic clearly shows legal trimming of the front uprights not being used.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#3 Ron Hershman

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:18 AM

OK Looks good...... what bodies are allowed for this class/race at Sano 6?????

Handout motors???

Spec Gears???

#4 MSwiss

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:45 AM

Same bodies as regular JK Spec.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:09 PM

OK Looks good...... what bodies are allowed for this class/race at Sano 6?????

Handout motors???

Spec Gears???

When I answered this earlier, I didn't notice anything inquiring about motors and gears.

Did you edit that in later?

My answer, "Same as regular JK Spec." was just answering the question about bodies.

It will be like regular JK Spec, handout Hawk 7's, but spec gearing will be a bit different for both classes this year.
Guys will be required to use a 48P, 7T pinion, but can use a 27T or larger crown gear.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#6 MSwiss

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:22 PM

Here's a good example of a legal Super Spec chassis, made by a C/R local, Lee Verdich.

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Mike Swiss
 
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IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#7 Rick

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:04 AM

Since the JK25R is almost a direct knockoff of the Dragon Slayer 2, could one use that is the event?

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#8 MSwiss

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:21 AM

Since the JK25R is almost a direct knockoff of the Dragon Slayer 2, could one use that is the event?

Of course you can't use it and that is the rudest comment of all time.

Just like the Retro chassis Rick Stevens made, that preceded it, the Dragon Slayer is a knockoff of the latest
JK line of stamped steel chassis, Cheetah 11, Cheetah 21, X24, X25.

The designer of the Dragon Slayer, IMO, certainly must of felt that way, because, from what I was told, he approached Jerry of JK and asked him if he wanted the design first.

Unless I'm missing something, it sounds like you only got the design because Jerry didn't want it.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#9 Rick

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:26 AM

That is a problem with hearsay. Usually not very accurate...........TY for the response.

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#10 MSwiss

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:48 AM

I believe the person who told me, Jerry.

He had no reason to lie.

As mentioned, these are all based on HIS design.

Rick Stevens, 2-3 years back, designed and built the first Retro car like this, I'm 100% sure,
inspired from the JK steel chassis, not from an R-GEO Dragon Slayer, which wasn't designed yet.

That's of course, assuming, he doesn't own a functioning time machine. LOL

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#11 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

LOL, So I must ask...

Can I use a Cheetah 11 since both kits were based off of it? I mean after all it's the same thing, just a different color.

Also could I use an O/S Ti22 instead of a JK Ti22 since their both Ti22's?

Thanks in advance Mike...

#12 Rick

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:09 PM

Just to set the record straight and correct. Rob offered his services to Jerry, nothing more. Jerry declined. The orginal Dragon Slayer came off of MY ACAD program and Rob modified it and corrected my mistakes...............

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#13 MSwiss

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:24 PM

So whose decision was it to copy Jerry's steel chassis,his or your's? LOL

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#14 Rick

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:30 PM

As I have stated before, I wanted the chassis to look like a stamped steel chassis, to allow flexi racers to relate to retro. I could have made the windows another shape and that would have changed the appearance 100%, but elected for the Czech triangles. So blame me. And why did Jerry approach me and ask if I was mad he copied my chassis? I told him hell no, it's a free market place, have at it. Move along Mike. The question was answered.

Better yet post a full schedule for your event, times, days, classes, etc. I can't find one?

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#15 Noose

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:35 PM

Rick the schedule has been posted for some time. Some already have it memorized.

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#16 MSwiss

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:40 PM

The schedule is in "Sano VI dates", here:
http://slotblog.net/...-sano-vi-dates/

Not quite as detailed as it normally is.

I'll post it in a separate thread for those who did not spot it.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#17 MSwiss

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

but elected for the Czech triangles.

Czech triangles ??

Is that where boats, planes, and Retro automobiles, mysteriously disappear ? :)

Those Czech triangles are pretty popular.

Rick Stevens also "elected" to use them, when he did the original C11 "inspired" chassis, a few years back,
that Guillermo Suar raced at Sano IV, 2 years ago.

So let me get this straight, you made that asinine post #7 just to confirm to the 2% of the Retro racers on Slotblog, who didn't already know that you were "inspired" by the JK stamped C11 , for the Dragon Slayer design, that indeed you were.

Seems like a colossal waste of time to me.

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Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#18 Rick

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:19 PM

Swiss, why do you ask these questions? Is your crytsal ball broken, you have already stated my intentions, needs, wants and desires. Why was it necassary for you to borrow a Dragon Slayer 2 from Mid America Raceway to measure, Capt Caliper?............:)

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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:41 PM

Jerry getting the Dragon Slayer 2(?) from M/A was so Chuck could see what was designed wrong and correct it.

IOW, figure out what not to do.

Notice the improved design,.

I.E.- Superior front pan hanging system (culled from an 80's 1/32nd Demon chassis),
separate pans that don't waste brass by putting a pointless weak brass pc.crosspiece,
superior rear pan hanging system, that doesn't require soldering any parts, 3/4" bracket vs. 1" bracket, etc., etc, etc.

When Jerry decided to make a Retro chassis with some stamped chassis style features, don't you think it would make sense
for him to have it inspired by his own stamped steel chassis, that you already copied vs. having it look like a Turbo-flex ? :)

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#20 Mopar Rob

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:14 PM

OK, captin' know it all's

I approaced Jerry with somthing similar to the Samurai 4, Jerry wasn't interested. This was back probably in 2010 way before any association with Rick. Jerry also never seen any drawing more of just something that came up during one of our phone conversations.

After the Sano when Rick Stevens chassis was used I expressed displeasure to some IRRA BoD memebers in seeing look alike retro flexi chassis. Pretty much told to F-off in so many words

Rick sent me his orginal drawing that was flexi based. I modified it, and cleaned it up.

Before I started working on drawing Rick and I had conversations about whether it would get passed the BoD. We decided it was worth the investment to have a trial rrun of 10 pieces for testing and to mess around with the BoD

My original modified drawing of Rick's had a 3/4" motor bracket and the angle on the inner part of the bracket was to accomindate a future tripod design if passed by the BoD. My 1/2 finished original tripod Dragon design was before the multi rail chassis became popular and was 4 rails of .062" like the Tripod I did in 2009. http://slotblog.net/...can-am-chassis/

I added the front wheels to the pan since I had built a .025" Samurai 3 that way and sent it to Bryan Warmack for testing and it seemed to work pretty well. I believe he podiumed with it at BP, maybe even won? http://slotblog.net/...is-build-vol-2/ The Dragon's movement was also very similar to the movement of this chassis

Basically I had a straight rail and 1/2 finished Tripod rail design drawn at the same time.

Upon seeing my revisions Rick asked me revise my drawing and go to a 1" bracket since he didn't have as good of a bending fixture for the 3/4" at the time as he did for his 1". I modified the straght rail design to accomindate Rick's request

Rick also asked me after seeing the angle to accomindate the potential future Tripod asked me to make the windows in the pan to look similar to the Czech designed windows.

After the Dragon 1 became accepted and used I was going to move forward and finsih the Tripod version, but Rick asked me to move the front wheels to the center section. This was way before the end of the 1 production. I believe 1's and 2's were actually cut at the same time?

The Dragon 3 was created at The Race of Champions. Went back to the orginal 3/4" motor bracket bacause since the time of the orginal Dragon 1 drawing and then Rick had a bending fixture that was as good if not better than his 1' bending bracket. In addition it was to accomindate the mutilple rails. They just didn't fit as well with the 1" bracket.


The front end is held toghether like a Champion turbo flex / Cheetha 24. It's not like the Czech's came up with this pan retention system. The front piece was also modeled after the M&M nose piece for tha "ret-ro" feel / look.

The Backatcha piece was designed to be the correct width for the maximum allowable wheel width, have a retangular opening for gear access to fix the mistakes of similar pieces that have square openings that don't easily accomindate moving the gear out of the way and most importantly a pan retention system.



I guess I'm probably wrong with my knowlge of the events and some other's versions are correct since they're self proclaimed retro historians and invented everything LOL

Rob Hanson

Shops at Mid-America Raceway and uses R-Geo Products


Rob was right!


#21 Ron Hershman

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:25 PM

1. After the Sano when Rick Stevens chassis was used I expressed displeasure to some IRRA BoD memebers in seeing look alike retro flexi chassis. Pretty much told to F-off in so many words



2. Before I started working on drawing Rick and I had conversations about whether it would get passed the BoD. We decided it was worth the investment to have a trial rrun of 10 pieces for testing and to mess around with the BoD






1. I don't think anyone on the BOD told you to "F off" Rob..... I am pretty sure we told you that it was legal as presented. It was constructed of the correct materials so therefore it was legal to run. There is nothing in the rules that "states" that a chassis can or can not look like a "Flexi" type car.

Most already look like a "Turbo Flex" anyways ;) Well wait a minute.....most look like old Parma Mono-Rail chassis.......lol

2. The BOD has nothing to approve when it came to a kit.... the IRRA had stopped "approving" chassis kits way before the original came out. The only thing to approve is the car at tech.... correct materials and dimensions, etc.

I think the only one you "messed" with was PDL and D3......LOL

#22 Mopar Rob

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:31 PM

Swiss, why do you ask these questions? Is your crytsal ball broken, you have already stated my intentions, needs, wants and desires. Why was it necassary for you to borrow a Dragon Slayer 2 from Mid America Raceway to measure, Capt Caliper?............ :)



FWIW, the orginal Dragon 1 was drawn from scratch. Nothing was measured by CMM, caliper or any other method. I have 1 flexi chassis and it wasn't anywhere near my computer or brain opon the Dragon's creation.

I've never tried, but to the best of my knowlege nothing is even remotely close in any diemension to any flexi chassis other than the diameter of the guide flag hole and maybe the rear width to accomindate .810" wide rear wheels. After all .810" wide rear wheels X 2 = 1.620". 3.125" - 1.620" = 1,505". I made the width something like 1.470" to allow rear wheel clearance. If I were to have made it say 1.5" that would only allow .0025" clearance on each side or about the thickness of a piece of paper. Not something I'd want R-Geo customers to deal with.

Rob Hanson

Shops at Mid-America Raceway and uses R-Geo Products


Rob was right!


#23 Mopar Rob

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:38 PM

1. I don't think anyone on the BOD told you to "F off" Rob..... I am pretty sure we told you that it was legal as presented. It was constructed of the correct materials so therefore it was legal to run. There is nothing in the rules that "states" that a chassis can or can not look like a "Flexi" type car.


Not necessarly the words used, but how they were presented. As you know one can use the same words to have different meanings.

Rob Hanson

Shops at Mid-America Raceway and uses R-Geo Products


Rob was right!






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