25 replies to this topic

[Cheater]

Barely had time to get home before I had to drive to Cleveland by myself, but the nice part was that twelve hours in the car gives one a lot of time to think... LOL!

What strikes me about Sano VI is how the quality of racing at this event (and other similar events) continues to improve. The F1 race where Howie ran clean (not a single deslot) was quite possibly the greatest slot car race I've ever personally witnessed. Ron Hershman chased Howie as hard as he could and Howie never blinked. There are a heck of a lot of 1:1 races that never approach the levels of close competition that we're consistently seeing at the big events run under IRRA™ rules.

It is also very pleasing to see how everyone at the Sano helps anyone who needs a hand, a body, a controller, etc. The "culture" of IRRA™ racing is a sea change from what has existed in the past in this hobby (and what continues to be seen in some other slot racing arenas) and I believe that it has contributed to the success of Retro racing.

Though it may seem self-congratulatory, I also believe the Sano, as well as the other big races using IRRA™ rules, strongly validates the IRRA™ approach to organized Retro racing. Like most things in life, IRRA™ is not perfect. But even with all its warts and problems, IRRA™ is delivering a superior "product" as compared to any previous slot racing organization of which I am aware. As they say, "your mileage may vary" but the results support such a viewpoint, do they not? And I know for a fact that the five IRRA™ BoD members are committed to working to make the organization even better.

And to barge into what will probably be a touchy subject, I am again reminded the Sano sometimes runs days that are simply too long. IIRC we finished one day's racing at 1:30 AM and another at nearly 2:30 AM. To be blunt about it, many of the participants are simply too old or infirm consistently to endure such long days (and I include myself in that category).

Yes, there were a couple of instances where the time between classes was excessive, but I don't think we should blame the problem solely on that situation (and it was what many of the racers desired anyway). Racers need to have some practice time, so going from one class straight into the next one is not really a solution. What's needed is a more proper balance of all factors: number of classes per day, amount of practice time available between classes, perhaps even the heat lengths of the lower mains. By Sunday, almost everyone in the building was sleep-deprived and not their usual cheerful selves. We need to take a hard look at this issue IMO.

Consider this: is there any other organized activity, hobby or otherwise, where is it the norm to schedule 14-16 hour days for the participants? I can't think of a single one... Doesn't NASCAR make the teams lock up their garages at 7 PM and stop working before their races?

(Let me point out that Mike Swiss likely didn't have a total of a decent night's sleep during the entire Sano VI. I believe I am correct that he arrived at the raceway at 1 AM the first day and at 3 AM the second day. No raceway owner I know is more committed to putting on a world-class slot car race. No one reading these comments about over-long days should interpret my remarks as being critical of Mike. This problem is systemic and historical more than anything else.)

All in all, I feel Da Sano is one of the best slot car racing events to be found anywhere in the world, and version six only reinforces that belief.

[Duffy]

Pretty well-thought-out, and reasonable (twelve hours prep can do that.)

Worth discussing seriously, and I'll be interested to see where it leads.

duf

[John Streisguth]

I agree Greg, the long days at events like this do indeed detract from the enjoyment. Race events like The Sano are victims of their own success, it seems. I would certainly suggest that at least with the case of the GTC races, since they would have entirely different entry rosters, maybe do them on seperate days (maybe one Friday evening, the other Saturday morning) so that some people could go get some rest a little earlier, and the other group could sleep in a bit. That right there is probably a good 3-4 hours difference in the amount of sleep most would get.

[JohnnySlotcar]

I agree with Greg about the race days being too long. With the F-1 race starting later, it was too much to stay 16 hours at the track. I applaud all those who did, but to arrive Sunday at the track, It looked like "Dawn of the Dead" with zombies floating about! LOL

Had a great time, just wished I could have raced all classes and still lived.

[Noose]

One class per day seems to be the magic formula for greater participation.

[Bernie]

I too think the days are a bit long but the unique nature of the Sano makes it tough to find the right balance. Running one of the King classes Friday night will be floated but that would require the Flat Track races to be eliminated which I for one enjoy ( home field advantage you know )

The Flat Track races gives some of the locals a chance to be competitive in a big race format. I applaud the out of towners that take on the challenge of the Flat Track as well. The split of the JK Spec class which is unique to the Sano as well adds time as well as the split of the GT Coupe classes. No easy answer here.

I myself have skipped the F1 race on the King for the last 3 years in order to get some sleep. I did the late night thing on Friday but could not handle 2 nights in a row. Not sure if we could run races on the Flat and the King at the same time. Probably cause too much confusion.

Maybe just tightening up the time frame of everything would solve some of the problems. Again, no easy solution.

[Ron Hershman]

My suggestion is........

Coupe FK on Fri at 5 or so in the afternoon on the King.

Coupe PD and F1 on Sat on the King

Can-Am on the King on Sunday on the King.

Move JK Spec and the Flat Track races to another date and Mike could have another well attended event on another weekend and different time of the year.

[John Streisguth]

That's about what I was thinking Ron, just be sure to run the GTC-PD first thing. Everyone gets a few more zzzzzz's LOL.

It would be a shame to not be able to include the flat track races in The Sano, but maybe tie them in with other classes for an all-flat track weekend.

[Ron Hershman]

but maybe tie them in with other classes for an all-flat track weekend.

Somebody had mentioned to me that Jimi Bostrom loved racing on the "flat" and having a Jimi Bostrom Memorial race on the flat track. Complete with retro classes, hot rods and maybe a ISRA class or two.

[MSwiss]

Ron,
Your idea is not bad but I don't see guys like Matt flying out a 2nd weekend.

Maybe the solution is to split the flat track races up and run them on 2 different nights as the last events.

I just want to remind everyone that anyone that was willing to run in only one race a day , they could of,
watched the winner take the checkered flag, and been in their motel bed no later than 8:30 PM.

No one is forced to participate in all 6 races.

But if you want to run in 6 races in 3 days like Howie, Matt, Keith Brown and 2 two Swedes, you have to dig down deep
and go with a little less sleep.

Howie could of packed it in after finishing 2nd to Ron in GTC-PD, but he didn't, and he wound up with
a win that will never be forgotten, a perfect race in F1, on a non-punch bowl King,
which was accomplished despite finishing 2:20 in the morning.

If it comes down to getting a chance to race against the best in the World, I personally will chose racing over sleep any day.

I'm not saving "it" for the "Nursing Home 500" 20 yrs. from now.

That said, Jackie and I have already discussed eliminating the hot lunch to go to a cold box lunch where everyone will get fed, but the lunch break will be eliminated.

And yes, the time between races is longer than it has to be.

When I tried to get tech started promptly after GTC-PD, all I heard were cries of
"We need more time".

I explained the consequences of more time and the F1 entrants opted for more practice vs. more sleep.

The only "right" part of it is the "long practice guys" are almost always the B and A Mainer's.

Their extra practice, while still extending the time the D and C guys have to stay at the track,
at least those D and C guys can leave much earlier, after their racing and marshaling duties are finished.

[John Streisguth]

Good points all Mike. No easy way to make everyone happy. But I like your comment about not saving it for the "Nursing Home 500".

Hey, Howie's older than me, so I'll just shut up now... (and I mean that with the utmost respect for Howie)

[TSR]

One class per day seems to be the magic formula for greater participation.

The SCRRA, under high pressure from Yours Truly (formerly a board member, now a casual onlooker), adopted this formula for the last biggie in SoCal (the Summer Western Classic) and everyone was truly happy with that format. Only on the Friday did more than one class was run, simply because the participation level for sub classes is limited, making 2 or 3 classes possible. Saturday, Can Am, Sunday, F1.
Works great.

[Pablo]

The format and scheduling was fine. No need to make any major changes.
I showed up old, fat, out of shape, with a cataract in one eye, but my cars ran great.
I finished accordingly, and I don't expect the schedule to be changed to improve my results.
Maybe next time I'll drop a few pounds and try a little harder.
Like Swiss said, buck up; this is not an event for wusses.
It's only once a year. I was as tired as anybody.
If it was easy, anybody could do it. We are strong American men!
I didn't hear the Svedes whine a single time....

[Ramcatlarry]

As a slowest main racer, I can say that most of the time I would rather know what my lap total placed me overall than which heat I finished in. I usually race faster than my qualifying time, but my lap total is all that really matters.

Move-ups are the time waster for me in addition to disorganized practice sessions. Miracle of miracles, I made two move-ups this year - a FIRST... my lap totals fell since I was too tired to do better in the second race.

[911GT3]

Although I enjoy racing on the flat track, I decided not to run it at all this year because I chose sleep over racing. Same thing with F1 on the king.

I missed some great racing but I don't regret it.

[Cheater]

Not to belabor the point, my belief is that too long days do work to reduce participation levels. I should have overtly stated this opinion in my first post, rather than depended on readers to infer it.

[MSwiss]

Greg,

I already covered this already in post #10.

Guys wanting to race three times last weekend could and leave by no later than 7:40 PM each night.

If you wanted to race five or six times in the three days, you had give up a little sleep.

There is no way to race six times (with qualifying and two move ups per race) in three days and get to bed at 9 PM each night and out the door on 7 PM on Sunday.

As far as you are concerned, you're were holding me up from leaving on Saturday night so you can double-check
results at 2:30 AM for what reason?

In case some insomniac catches a trivial posting error and tries to sue Slotblog for disseminating incorrect statistics?

Not even to mention the time you could of saved by just posting a pic of the race sheet.

[Ron Hershman]

1.Guys wanting to race 3 times last weekend could and leave by no later than 7:40PM each night.

2.If you wanted to race 5 or 6 times in the 3 days, you had give up a little sleep.

3.There is no way to race 6 times(with qualifying and 2 move ups per race) in 3 days and get to bed at 9 PM each night
and out the door on 7 PM on Sunday.

1. Depends on what classes one chooses to race in.

2. True...but if you wanted to race just three times you may have gave up some sleep.

3. There is no way to be in Bed every night at 9 pm two of the three nights depending on what classes are raced.

If one was "just" to race Can-Am on the flat track Friday night.....what was his/her bedtime?

If one was to "just" race F1 on the King on Sat....what was his/her bedtime??

[Cheater]

Mike,

Please don't take what I am saying personally, as it isn't meant that way at all.

I understand your position and fully respect it.

In comparison to other hobbies that hold "National Events" (and that's what I consider the Sano, the R4, etc.), the planned activities are almost never as one-dimensional as in slot racing, where historically it has been the maximum amount of racing and nothing else.

The question I am asking is whether that's the best approach.

[MSwiss]

I'll reword that, Ron.

Each of the first classes of the day (both JK Specs races, both GT-Coupes,Can-Am) was done by 7:40 PM.

That said, I also acknowledged your suggestion was pretty good and I will make a concerted effort to get the premier classes on the King done earlier next year.

[kvanpelt]

I personally had a great time, Mike. The days were long, but the memories were worth it. Next year I plan to stay near by at a motel as opposed to the 40 min commute home every day. Not so much for the extra sleep, but to avoid the possibility of falling asleep at the wheel.

My only change in format would be to run the flat track races together early on Friday. Some of us discussed the difficulty of jumping back and forth between the two tracks.

[MSwiss]

Please don't take what I am saying personally, as it isn't meant that way at all.

I fully understand your position and fully respect it.

It just can't turn into a five or six day event so everyone gets all the practice they want, and race the main event in every class by 6 PM.

[Cheater]

Nor was I suggesting that in any way...

[Pablo]

I've been to many events and wondered, "Why are we not moving the program along"?

But I never got that feeling at Sano.

[JoB]

Hey, whatever the race format, we go along! Sleep we do when we're coming home to Sweden!
I thought when you get older you can go by a little less sleep.

Anyway Jim and I had great fun and turn the result table up side down and you will see some amazing thing.

See y'all another time at a raceway somewhere. Never know when we show up.

Thanks, Mike, for the hard work to make Sano VI a very nice and fun event!

The Swedes