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#1 dc-65x

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:15 PM

Is this a cool vintage slot car or what? :sun_bespectacled: The body is hand-carved WOOD!

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My buddy Rodney sent me these pictures of his latest build. Here's his story about the car:

I just completed another 1/24 scale wood-bodied slot car. A one-off 1963 Cash Spl. The late Ron Cash carved the body out of balsa wood.

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The R/D chassis was assembled from a new kit.

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It's Revel-Pittman RP77 powered.

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The car drives great. Eric was really surprised how fast the car is. The balsa body weighs very little. The chassis has a very low center of gravity. The Cash Spl. body has great style and is reminiscent of the many American V8 powered specials I saw in the '60s.


Maybe Rodney will send me a little info on the late Ron Cash that I can pass on. It's obvious he was quite a craftsman.

Hope you guys enjoy the pics. :)
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#2 Régis4446

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:36 PM

Very nice car. Really cool.
Régis Baron

#3 TSR

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

Balsa wood was widely used in the early days of commercial slot car racing. This one looks like it has had some good attention as it looks a lot better than most wooden-bodied cars I have seen... :)

#4 endbelldrive

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

There is a certain "je ne sais quoi" that balsa racers have. I love this stuff! :sun_bespectacled:
Bob Suzuki

#5 dc-65x

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

I really like it too. It looks so 60's slot car to me. I love that stuff!

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#6 Tex

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

I'd sure like to see more of the body, especially the underside(hint, hint). It sure is a smooth, sexy-lookin' thang!
Richard L. Hofer

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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

That's a beautifully finished body Rick! Another good carving wood is bass wood. It's also a light colored, straight-grained wood, used by many bird carvers. Its a bit denser than balsa, but still carves & finishes easily. :)
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#8 Jairus

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

Makings of a good proxy race?
Pittman motors and balsa wood, hand carved bodies only.
I am in.
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#9 dc-65x

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

Jairus, you da man!
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#10 don.siegel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 04:37 AM

That does sound very interesting - count me in!

Really a nice carving and finishing job Rick. Like TSR says, most of the balsa bodies I've found are not at that level - I'm actually a little surprised, because, perhaps naively, I was expecting them all to be like the ones we saw in the magazines, and there were some beauties there... not to mention the Gordini that Joel did for the Bordo race a few years ago...

I'm also a little surprised to see the "RP77" and "speed" in the same sentence...

Don

#11 Howmet TX

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:25 AM

Ahhhh. Pitman and balsa... ahhh... count me in.

John Dilworth


#12 Jairus

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:07 AM

We need a theme first.
Since I love what Régis Baron built earlier this year...
How about "Pre-war fantasy or replica Grand Prix" on rubber tires?

I can do a nice 30's style racing poster even.

Although I suspect the number of entries will be way down compared to the current "Balls Out" proxy. (But I could be wrong)
I'll even host it here in the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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#13 don.siegel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:53 AM

That sounds like an excellent idea Jairus.

Maybe to open it up a bit more, include a second class for sports cars up to the 50s... but still with Pittman motor and rubber tires.

Don

#14 Jairus

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

Posted Image
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#15 dc-65x

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

I'm also a little surprised to see the "RP77" and "speed" in the same sentence...



:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

You know what they say Don, "speed" is a relative term :) :crazy: :D

Say Don, can you remember any old articles on carving bodies? I have most of the old magazine and I'll be happy to scan and post hi res images.

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#16 Howmet TX

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:34 PM

Sports cars for me, Jairus. I can hear the soft splintering of lovingly shellaced balsa against the track walls right now. In my head. Amongst all the other weird stuff there.....

John Dilworth


#17 Jairus

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:49 PM

Two for sports cars so far. I suppose I could twist my own arm to carve a "D type" Jag for this.
Just felt that an early 30's flat sided body would be easier to carve and appeal to the less talented among us.

But... Sports cars 1945 to 1955 is still cool.

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#18 James Wendel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:52 PM

Jairus - those Monaco posters are beautiful !!! Truly stunning. :heart:

Is that your original work?
You can't always get what you want...

#19 Jairus

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

Nope. The posters are digital copies of the originals I Googled off the Internet.

I WAS excited to do a pre-war Grand Prix proxy race, but now am only interested in taking part in a sports car race.

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#20 endbelldrive

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Include me in! :crazy: 1/24 or 1/32?
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#21 don.siegel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 06:19 PM

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Say Don, can you remember any old articles on carving bodies? I have most of the old magazine and I'll be happy to scan and post hi res images.


Well Rick, let's see: I've got a couple articles of casting fiberglass bodies, lots of articles on painting and detailing plastic bodies, and even one article on making bodies out of toilet paper, but not sure about wood!

My office is occupied tonight, but I'll take a look tomorrow.

On the category front, how about: anything old and carved? borrowed and (French racing) blue?

Don

#22 dc-65x

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:55 PM

Thanks Don. I did find this old 1964 R&C article:

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I'll keep digging and look forward to anything anybody else can find.....

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#23 Howmet TX

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 01:52 AM

Run 'em together- they did in the old days, I think... Sports & G.P.s. Wonderful. No rules otherwise, big concours points of course.

Sorry I couldn't get into the 'Balls-out' races, Jairus. Not the style for a genteel tea-drinking aristocrat like me, you understand. But balsa wood- What made the British Empire what it is today, don't y'know.

Thanks DC for raising the topic. I'm excited. 15 years old again. I must send the maid for another round of cucumber sandwiches.
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#24 Régis4446

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:38 AM

I am interested

Many models as possible
see here for pinewwood



http://www.derbytalk....php?f=2&t=4878

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Régis Baron

#25 merkit the grof

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:44 AM

Yes please, I wood be interested.



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#26 Jairus

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

By my count we have 7 persons throwing their hats into the ring. I think this number will grow to 12 after we pull a couple scratchbuilders in from Slot Forum.

Probably should decided on a theme and basic rules first though. It's better if we all build the same type of car and same scale in my opinion.
1/24 is simplest for my big hands and I have a lot more bits in that scale to choose from.
Other thoughts...
Chassis design open. Brass rod, brass pan, aluminum as long as no technology newer than 1964 utilized.
No can motors, only open motors like Kemtron, Pittman, Tyco, Astrocraft, Revell, etc.
Vintage parts encouraged.
Rubber tires only.
Wheel inserts or scale cast wheels mandatory.

I went through all my slot mags and the only article about carving was the aforementioned Alfa Romeo Type 158 (two part article) that Rick posted. But this is not a big deal for me finding the drawings of the car in a mag. Because I plan to buy a model kit (or pick one off my shelf) of one of the cars shown below and carve the body to match the kit body. No need to over think this thing is there?

Two themes have been suggested, "pre-war Grand Prix" and "mid-fifties sports cars". I assume this means open top spyders?

I personally would like to go Pre-War Grand Prix because that is a very glorious era and easier to build. But... a quick look at a few sports racing cars from 1955 got me pretty excited too! Really are not enough people to have two classes so lets just pick one. K?
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I already have a box of parts ready including a very nice 6volt motor that sounds strong along with a vintage Astrocraft guide and some Unique wheels. But.. might go with the Russkit wires just because they are so neat.
:smoking:

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#27 Lone Wolf

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

Jairus, I suppose the limiting factor on Pre-war cars would be "raceable" wheels and tires. This build would probably be way beyond my talents but what the hay I'm willing to try. Count me in! This time I will not use 45 year old tires on the rear though :dash2:

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#28 gascarnut

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:53 AM

By my count we have 7 persons throwing their hats into the ring. I think this number will grow to 12 after we pull a couple scratchbuilders in from Slot Forum.


I think that once the rules are set, more may be interested.

I know that I will wait until that point to decide.

Dennis Samson
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#29 dc-65x

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

Rodney and I have been using urethane repops of vintage rubber tires from Paul's Slot Car Shop with good results on our "Dawn of Time" cars. Here's a link to his Ebay Store:

Paul's Slot Car Shop

I glue them to the rims with "automotive flowable windshield silicone adhesive" and lightly true them on my Hudy tire grinder. They drift nicely through the turns and don't "bounce".

Rodney has also had good luck with vintage Russkit rubber rear's. He lightly sands the tread off to expose fresh rubber and even recuts the tread grooves.

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#30 dc-65x

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

I think that once the rules are set, more may be interested.

I know that I will wait until that point to decide.


Jairus, this is your ship and you're the Captain. But, perhaps first deciding on which scale or maybe there will be enough interest to have both 1/24 and 1/32???

Then, as you mentioned, open frame and pad lock motors only (no rewinds). There could be exceptions like the good old Bonner but no Mabuchi's or Pitt-Cans.

The thing I've always thought would be good in a vintage format is:

"If you don't have a vintage picture of the style of frame you're building.....don't bother building it. But hey, that's just me :) .

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#31 endbelldrive

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

There might be a slot car body carving article in one of the hard cover slot car books. I thought the British magazines had an article or two on fabricating your own bodies along with their 3 View Plans. A rail racing site also had old scans of body carving articles about 10 years ago. I couldn't find them again after a quick search but I'll keep looking.
Bob Suzuki

#32 boxerdog

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

We had a similar "no-can" class for a while, but we used resin bodies. I would most likely try it, however I doubt that it would remotely resemble a real car due to my lack of whittling experience and patience. How is the body best secured to the chassis? I can't see balsa being strong, so I imagine gluing in pieces of hardwood might help?
David Cummerow

#33 Jairus

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:34 PM

I think that once the rules are set, more may be interested.

I know that I will wait until that point to decide.

Dennis, even tho we discussed the rules for months before implementing them and locking it in. There were STILL a few who groused about it. Most of those never spoke up while the discussion raged. So if you don't speak up, then please do not complain.
I'm at work so thought I would post a few thoughts during lunch.

#1 this discussion has jumped to Slotforum already and I didn't do it. But... some questions came up that bare repeating to get your take. That is the use of detail parts.
Most of the cars we will build require exhaust pipes, windshield glass, drivers and other details.
The question concerned the use of other materials besides wood to create these details. Or... should we allow model car parts to be used?
If the latter... I would stress that only parts that were available in 1964. But I am not afraid of making my own brass windshield frames either so I leave that up to the masses to decide.

#2 Another idea was to implement a points system once again. The idea this time is to give at least 75% of the points awarded through Concours... or how well the car is constructed. The 75% would be divided up into 3 or 4 categories, Best detail, Best paint, Best interior and most realistic.

#3 I am very busy right now playing catch-up, business wise, so we will be talking about this for a month at least before any solid rules are set.
Then I figure we will need to wait till February before we even consider racing. Maybe March. But I am not in any hurry and plan to take my time building the car.
Because, that's were the fun is. Right?
J

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#34 gascarnut

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:48 PM

Jairus,

I certainly was not one complaining about any rules in any other Proxy - I just did not enter.

For this one, I like the concept of making wooden bodies on open frame motors, but as far as the pre-1964 parts, rubber tires, etc. goes - that to me is a big turn-off.

I would want, for example to be able to use a neo magnet in an open frame motor, if only to allow the motor to survive. I would not want to be restricted to pre-1964 gears either.

I also think it should be decided what tracks these cars would run on before specifying what type of tires are to be used. And as far as detail parts go, let's scratchbuild parts (from whatever materials you like) or use vintage slot car parts, but no model kit pieces, that's too easy.

Concours should count and be judged on both the body and the frame, I like that, but IMO should not count more than 40% of the total score. These are supposed to be race cars after all.

Dennis Samson
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#35 dc-65x

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

......but as far as the pre-1964 parts, rubber tires, etc. goes - that to me is a big turn-off.


Hi Dennis,

Drifting these old and relatively slow cars around the turns on rubber, silicone or urethane tires is really a lot of fun. It's a different driving experience that's really in the vintage "spirit of the game".

I would want, for example to be able to use a neo magnet in an open frame motor, if only to allow the motor to survive.


A freshly zapped Pittman will run forever.....well.....at least until the brushes are gone :laugh2: . Neo's are not needed for these motors to last.

I think people have to choose if they want to, for some reason, run modern cars with balsa bodies or recreate the thrill of "table top racing" in the 60's like Rodney did with this car......


Posted Image



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......and this one too:

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Rick Thigpen
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#36 Brad Korando

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

I first saw this discussion on SlotForum and chimed in there. SInce this is where the idea started I figured I should check in here.

Count me in too, this sounds like a lot of fun. My preference is for sports cars and vintage motors sans neo magnet and I like the idea of scracth building parts, rather than using parts from model kits. Really, I'll be happy to go along with any of the ideas metioned above.

Regards,
Brad

#37 don.siegel

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

Amen Rick!

These open frame motors run fine with the original magnets, even without rezapping in many cases, altho zapping can help.

I would tend to just do a proxy for the fun of it, no complicated Concours rules, etc. Build a car like in 64, run it. Period.

Found a couple articles in the meantime, if it helps anybody.


Here are a couple other articles I found on carving wooden bodies. First one from December 1965 issue of Model Car & Track: Timber!

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The other one is from the June 66 issue of this same magazine - yep, both articles appeared just about when wooden bodies were disappearing for good from slot racing circles!

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Don

#38 don.siegel

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:32 PM

The other article I found on making wooden bodies, from the March 1963 issue of Model Maker...

Posted Image

Posted Image

#39 Jairus

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

Don, those are GREAT articles! I went through most of my early mags with little success. But then I don't have the collection that you seem to possess. Thank you for posting and please keep it up.

As for allowing modern technology into this. I don't really see the need. We have plenty of races where SPEED and modern parts are allowed. Some even spec the motors and stuff like that. Why allow that here? What is the upside? A car that is a hair faster but doesn't really handle any better?
No, I think stock magnets will be our best bet this time out. I popped my little Astrocraft motor on the power pack and it sings very sweetly. I might consider adding motor ball bearings to lower friction a little more.
No lets keep the 1964 time limit for motors and chassis designs.
Only allowance being re-popped Russkit wheels are allowed.
But there are tons of vintage gears out there so NO PINK PARMA allowed at all!

I also had some time today to think that while 1955 seemed to be the pinnacle of sports car activity. There are plenty of cool cars 1949 to 1960. So... lets say that any open sports car in that time period, both stock and race versions be legal. However, this is a race of sorts. So numbers are required on at least two on the sides to be the minimum.
Later on we can register numbers so we don't have two entries with the number 7.

Still discussing.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#40 endbelldrive

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:12 PM

I'll try to build something this time that doesn't blow up or catch on fire. I think I've gotten that out of my system. :crazy:
Bob Suzuki

#41 Régis4446

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:05 AM

Here is my review:

period: 1949 to 1960

Body wood: balsa, pine, ayous, obéché or other

driver and steering wheels: plastic or resin for simplicity

no motors can

wheels, aluminum with plastic inserts or resin

Tires: Urethane

no photoetched, aluminum, brass and copper for chassis and other parts
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Régis Baron

#42 vfr750

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:46 AM

Regarding tyres, we run our Double Trouble vintage meeting using Ortmanns as contol tyres, this works well.

I've just posted the following on SlotForum in response to a couple of guys who want more modern motors.

Bu**er, I'm trying to cut back on slots a bit for the next year or so but I think I might have to try this. It's representative of an era just before my time when i was just rugracing with Scaley. Rail racing was also before my time but when races were organised by "he whose name should not be mentioned" (on SlotForum) I had to have a go at building a rail car too.

I'd like to have a go at this if the rules are right with a long enough lead time so i can make lots of mistakes learning to carve Posted Image

I think if this is to be done it should be done in the spirit of the early days when bodies had to be carved as there weren't many commercial alternative. This was an era before can motors when open frame motors were the norm. I wouldn't bother to do it with can motors.

These motors aren't ridiculously expensive and he's a good guy to deal with.:

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5adc6b7b70

It's also worth checking with Phil Smith & Derek Cooper (in the UK).

If it does take off I'm sure we could run a round at the Rockingham club. it would be good to see the entries this side of the pond.

Cheers

John
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John Roche
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#43 Lone Wolf

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:59 AM

May I be so bold as to suggest this book for a "Guide"? Published in 1964 it is absolutely loaded with info. Shows most things available up until 1964 and even has some things about wood bodies. Shows motors, frames, wheels etc. and is very detailed. You can still find these and a dog eared copy could be found for $20 or so with cleaner ones going for more. I could always scan relevant pages too.

slotblog 201.jpg

slotblog 202.jpg

Joe Lupo


#44 boxerdog

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

Jairus, I am assuming that these little jewels will be run on a smaller, flatter track than a King??

I sorta wish resin bodies were an option as I have some, but I'm willing to do wood if that's what it takes. Now I am trying to remember which of my "no-can" cars was the best...when we were racing them, I remember thinking that some motors we overlooked back in the 60's really made good small-track cars. I also remember that durability is huge.
David Cummerow

#45 Jairus

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:54 AM

Jairus, I am assuming that these little jewels will be run on a smaller, flatter track than a King??


John, As yet I have not thought about it much. We have one volunteer in England to run a leg of this race. I had thought about running a leg here in the Pacific Northwest (Pelican Park Raceway is a natural!) so both Rick Thigpen and I could be there to take pictures and stuff.
But the short answer is that YES, no King tracks for this race. (Parma?)
My first thought was only a couple races to cut down on the costs that come from moving cars from track to track. Not to mention the risk of damaging during transit.
Need to discuss that one further before we decide.

Here is my review:

period: 1949 to 1960

Body wood: balsa, pine, ayous, obéché or other

driver and steering wheels: plastic or resin for simplicity

no motors can

wheels, aluminum with plastic inserts or resin

Tires: Urethane

no photoetched, aluminum, brass and copper for chassis and other parts


Régis, we are of one mind!
Thus far I am the only voter for pre-war GP so that gets dropped.
So now it is only Sports Cars as a theme! (and there was much rejoicing).

Todays a slot car building day so I have to get off the computer and finish my Cukras chassis.
:)
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#46 Jairus

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

Just to prove that vintage stuff is still out there for realistic prices:

On ebay 6v Tyco motor NOS

Pittman 196B

Sheesh, a whole damn chassis with some weird motor!

:)

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#47 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:34 AM

Jairus, last one not a Bonner. PM sent.

Joe Lupo


#48 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:13 AM

I was asked to shed a little light on this.

The K&B Super Challenger motor was the 6V high perf version of their standard motor. It has a wider case with a different arm. It is often mistaken for a Bonner. Here is an excellent page from the ISB with pics.


http://www.theindepe...nner Motors.htm

Joe Lupo


#49 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

This sounds like a very interesting challenge and ideas are stirring in my head already!I will probably have to wait until the rules are defined, but I have some questions concerning various aspects.

1. I have two potential motors to use, one is a Ram XL-500 and the other is a Pittman 706D. Would they both be acceptable? If so, which one would likely be better suited?

2. Regarding the use of plastic kit parts, could one not use plastic headlights and tail lights, or would those have to be scratch built too? Wouldn't parts from kits made before 1964 be allowed?

3. Can you clarify in detail Regis' comment? "no photoetched, aluminum, brass and copper for chassis and other parts"
Bruce W. Frye

#50 dc-65x

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:03 PM

My thoughts are perhaps we should just post one of the period "motor roundup" articles and those would be the only allowable motors. I have a Model Car and Track article from 3/65. With the typical 3 month lead time the motors shown would be from the end of 1964. The Mabuchi has shown up by then but it would not be allowed.

The Ram XL500 doesn't show up in the article. It is a late 65 or early 66 motor.

The K&B motor shown is not the later Super Challenger but the standard Challenger and they are easy to tell apart.

The Pittman 196A is shown but with so many 196B's available now it would be nice to include them.

Rick Thigpen
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