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Penn-Ohio PS-4002 motor statement


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#1 Dennis Krivacek

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:17 PM

While the Pro Slot 4002 motors has been "suspended" by the IRRA the Penn-Ohio does not know for how long or what the outcome of the 4002 motor will be.

We have allowed the PS 4002 motor to be used in Penn-Ohio events the past several years. The past two races of the 2012-13 Penn-Ohio series these motors were used in Can-Am events and have proved to have no "advantage" over the other four IRRA™ approved motors in this or any other class.

In order to NOT impact the cost to our racers and since the motor selection is based on performance equality and not a given spec the Pro Slot 4002 motor will be allowed at ALL future Penn-Ohio events in Can-Am, F1, Stock Car, and Flexi classes.

If evidence comes to light that would definitely show this motor to have an advantage then the Penn-Ohio BoD will revisit this issue.




#2 Sax555

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:06 PM

.That said<<<<<<< "" Now were can a guy get a fast one""?????
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#3 Noose

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

Is evidence that they contain 20 turns less than the approved motor significant enough? Guess not.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#4 Chris Barnes

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 08:18 PM

I think the evidence we are looking for is whether the 4002 is significantly or consistently faster the the motors they are competing against. So far in Retro Slots at Abbeville, we see some use the 4002 and some use TSR/Falcons in our Stock Car class. I have seen both motors win races. For those who have spent money for these motors, we don't want the racers to pay the price for an error like this. As I said, both have been winners this season. I ran a 4002 at the Retro South race at Abbeville - blew up - came in last. Not what I consider a significant advantage.
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#5 Dan Myers

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:00 PM

Even if they are 20 turns less they still run NO faster than the other approved motors.
Dan "Cable Guy" Myers II

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#6 slick in the slot

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:49 PM

i have not used a chinese proslot but i have heard the following. 1) the chinese motor will not last and blows up frequently. 2) the chinese motors modified and "fixed" by hershman are quick and they last.
i have seen the modified chinese motors run and they are sweet (in my opinion). if i have to send a motor into someone so they can "fix it", i'm not sure this is in the interest of the general racing body.
Gil Pataky

#7 Noose

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

If the motor rules are based on performance as the ORS and PO regions have determined as the basis for allowing the PS 4002 then why would there have been motor spec rules published for over five years? Are not specifications the guidelines that are to be used to verify if a motor is legal?

That said, then how would the protest rule be applied for the Puppy Dogs? One can put up his $125 to protest the motor at which time it is supposed to go one of the motor guys to verify the motor meets specs. If the specs mean nothing then how can the motor be deemed to be illegal?

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#8 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

Does anyone have any evidence that a 60-turn motor was outrun by an 80-turn motor? That is, has anyone actually sliced an arm and counted the turns after testing showed it to be an average performer?

PS: a lack of reliability does not make an illegal motor legal.

Just sayin'

Pete Varlan

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#9 Ron Hershman

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:06 PM

Does anyone have any evidence that a 60-turn motor was outrun by an 80-turn motor? That is, has anyone actually sliced an arm and counted the turns after testing showed it to be an average performer?

PS: a lack of reliability does not make an illegal motor legal.

Just sayin'


And if these 4002 motors "legal or illegal" and note the IRRA BOD has not said or specified that they are illegal in the 60 T versions were so much faster than the other motors.....EVERYONE would be running them now wouldn't they?

Many of the top racers have them, tested them, had them refurbed and guess what???? Very few have been using them in the Can Am and F1 classes/races. Same goes for Stock Cars and Flexi cars in this series.

#10 NJ Racer

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:32 AM

Even if they are 20 turns less they still run NO faster than the other approved motors.


What kind of statement is this? How can you cite this if you don't know for certain?
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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:40 AM

i have not used a chinese proslot but i have heard the following. 1) the chinese motor will not last and blows up frequently. 2) the chinese motors modified and "fixed" by hershman are quick and they last.
i have seen the modified chinese motors run and they are sweet (in my opinion). if i have to send a motor into someone so they can "fix it", i'm not sure this is in the interest of the general racing body.


Getting refurbished with a true comm and a better balance can fix any motor.

The getting 'fixed' and 'modified' thing makes it sound like you think it's cheating.
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#12 Ron Hershman

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:48 AM

What kind of statement is this? How can you cite this if you don't know for certain?


We know for certain from recent race results in P-O, ORS and RE

#13 Ron Hershman

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:53 AM

the chinese motors modified and "fixed" by hershman are quick and they last.


I don't "modify" them.... I refurb them which means rebalancing the arms, cutting the comms, spacing the correctly during assembly, putting in good brushes, screwing the can to endbell and running them in.

If any winds are loose, then they are "repaired" by adding epoxy to the loose windings.

The same thing we do to the PS Puppy Dog motors including adding epoxy to any loose windings during normal refurbing.

Not too sure they all last...Buddy ran one at TT last weekend and it only lasted 4 heats.

#14 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:22 AM

And if these 4002 motors "legal or illegal" and note the IRRA BOD has not said or specified that they are illegal in the 60 T versions were so much faster than the other motors.....EVERYONE would be running them now wouldn't they?

Many of the top racers have them, tested them, had them refurbed and guess what???? Very few have been using them in the Can Am and F1 classes/races. Same goes for Stock Cars and Flexi cars in this series.


That doesn't answer the question I asked. And if the use of these motors is presently "suspended" due to failure to comply with the approved specs, that indicates probable illegality... and the comment that they should be OK because they don't last long is a non sequitur of massive proportions.

Pete Varlan

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."


#15 Ron Hershman

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:07 AM

That doesn't answer the question I asked. And if the use of these motors is presently "suspended" due to failure to comply with the approved specs, that indicates probable illegality... and the comment that they should be OK because they don't last long is a non sequitur of massive proportions.


How about the specs didn't comply with the motor after the motor was submitted and approved? A oversight, a failure to follow up, a failure to communicate within the IRRA BoD.

How does that work for ya?

#16 911GT3

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:58 PM

This is quite interesting. I have not purchased a 4002 motor since I burned one up before the R4/1. The "new" (built after 2009) 4002 motor's specification changed and it doesn't come to light until 2012? Why didn't anybody notice? Was Pro-Slot supposed to inform the IRRA BoD of the change? If so, why didn't it happen?

If it has gone unoticed until this point, my opinion is for the IRRA BoD to evaluate the revised specification motor and make an official ruling. This may take some time to get good data and make a decision.

As far as the performance debate, in my opinion, if there was a performance difference, those of us that race under the IRRA would have discovered a difference within a couple of months after the change. A speed secret like that would not stay a secret for long. Following that, the IRRA Bod would have noticed, questioned the motor and already made a rule.

So the ORS and P.O. "knee jerk" reaction appears to me that some logic was used to say it is "no big deal" that the spec is different. Is it right? I can't say. But until there is an official IRRA ruling, P-O and ORS seem to be taking a do nothing approach. What's a few more days......weeks.....months in allowing the use of the 4002 motor?

Until there is a decision, I'll keep playing with little toy car with all my friends.

(This one also fits under the ORS thread.)
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